Vega FE vs RX Vega discussion

[Korreborg]

Well to try and move the discussion from the Quick News, lets make it here

And i will start out addressing NeverBackDown's
You say you haven't claimed anything, but in my eyes, every time someone mentions something about RX performance based on the FE, you scream drivers.
So what i don't get is, how can the same GPU with less ram suddenly get ALOT better.
You say you haven't claimed anything, but i would mean that you have more than hinted it. An if the leaks are true, the crappy cooler is what will be available, or AMD's own AIO.

As i see it, good drivers make a card work like intended, bad drivers makes it fall behind = Drivers can only make miracles if something is really wrong and the game tests on the Vega FE seems to run smooth, so i think optimizations will be in a few % range. In some games maybe more. But as a general guideline, i think the FE shows the performance of both cards quite well.

 

[Dicehunter]

Well to try and move the discussion from the Quick News, lets make it here

And i will start out addressing NeverBackDown's
You say you haven't claimed anything, but in my eyes, every time someone mentions something about RX performance based on the FE, you scream drivers.
So what i don't get is, how can the same GPU with less ram suddenly get ALOT better.
You say you haven't claimed anything, but i would mean that you have more than hinted it. An if the leaks are true, the crappy cooler is what will be available, or AMD's own AIO.

As i see it, good drivers make a card work like intended, bad drivers makes it fall behind = Drivers can only make miracles if something is really wrong and the game tests on the Vega FE seems to run smooth, so i think optimizations will be in a few % range. In some games maybe more. But as a general guideline, i think the FE shows the performance of both cards quite well.

If we take the performance in Crysis 3 in DudeRandom84's video at 1440P which saw around 44FPS with the F.E and at the same point with the same settings and res the 1080 Ti got 97FPS and was consistently ahead by 50FPS in general, The RX-Vega which is going to have the same amount of cores, Same architecture and same memory type as the F.E, Would have to magically be 50% better due to drivers to match the 1080 *non Ti* I simply can't see it happening, Unless the RX-Vega is actually different/higher amount of cores.

 

[AlienALX]

Listen, it's never going to touch the Ti. Why do you think the prices for Tis have gone up over the past couple of weeks? it's nothing to do with mining, before you say that.

It's because Nvidia have bought themselves a FE.

Now Vega will improve (fact) over time, and DX12 is likely where it will shine, but it's never going to magically find 50% or more. That will not happen. Maybe all in (DX12 and better drivers) maybe 25-30% (as I have seen that before with the 7000 series) but never no 50%.

 

[Dicehunter]

Listen, it's never going to touch the Ti. Why do you think the prices for Tis have gone up over the past couple of weeks? it's nothing to do with mining, before you say that.

It's because Nvidia have bought themselves a FE.

Now Vega will improve (fact) over time, and DX12 is likely where it will shine, but it's never going to magically find 50% or more. That will not happen. Maybe all in (DX12 and better drivers) maybe 25-30% (as I have seen that before with the 7000 series) but never no 50%.

I bet this was Nvidia's reaction during testing when they were probably hoping for proper competition again but then saw the results ^_^

 

[AlienALX]

haha yeah probably. Even if the FE was faster the power use is just off the charts. And we all know how detrimental power use can be to any computer product.

 

[Dawelio]

haha yeah probably. Even if the FE was faster the power use is just off the charts. And we all know how detrimental power use can be to any computer product.

Especially in smaller, more compact cases.

 

[AlienALX]

Especially in smaller, more compact cases.

It will need a 550w PSU, which most of those don't even have.

I dunno, I think Vega is still going to be of the "A face only a mother could love" sort of tech.

 

[Korreborg]

Now Vega will improve (fact) over time, and DX12 is likely where it will shine, but it's never going to magically find 50% or more. That will not happen. Maybe all in (DX12 and better drivers) maybe 25-30% (as I have seen that before with the 7000 series) but never no 50%.

Before the 7000 series? What did it improve in? All aspects. Some games? DX12?

 

[AlienALX]

Before the 7000 series? What did it improve in? All aspects. Some games? DX12?

Nope there was a 25% driver for the 7950/7970 (and possibly lower end but I don't go there). It was amazing, pushed the 7970 way past the 680. Was a bit late of course, as most who wanted the 680 had already bought one, but fantastic for owners

 

[Korreborg]

Nope there was a 25% driver for the 7950/7970 (and possibly lower end but I don't go there). It was amazing, pushed the 7970 way past the 680. Was a bit late of course, as most who wanted the 680 had already bought one, but fantastic for owners

But that tells me that the release driver has been crap

 

[Kaapstad]

I hope no one goes away with idea that the drivers for Vega will give big gains in DX12 over time as that is not going to happen. Most of the optimising that AMD did for their older cards will be applied to Vega on launch day and in the months going forward we will see maybe another 5% or 10% more.

 

[AlienALX]

But that tells me that the release driver has been crap

Not on a pro card.

I hope no one goes away with idea that the drivers for Vega will give big gains in DX12 over time as that is not going to happen. Most of the optimising that AMD did for their older cards will be applied to Vega on launch day and in the months going forward we will see maybe another 5% or 10% more.

I didn't mean DX12 would improve. I meant that right off the bat it will be a good card for DX12, and will improve as we start to see more "made from scratch" DX12 games. Kinda like Hitman. Same goes for Vulkan.

My Fury X is as good or better now than a 1070. When the 1070 launched? yeah, no chance.

Over the lifetime of the card I would expect, nae, demand 20% more. AMD are known for it. Why? their driver team is not as good/well paid as Nvidia's and they have to release tech first before getting it to perfection.

Raja even said it himself. People see AMD GPUs as "fine wine". Of course you have to want to continue making your products better over the long haul (because Nvidia does not) but AMD do, and that's class.

 

[Korreborg]

What is best. Full performance from day one, or having to wait a year or 2 for that performance?

 

[Wraith]

What is best. Full performance from day one, or having to wait a year or 2 for that performance?

Honestly I'd rather have the racehorse straight out the box, rather than wait until the pony has grown up.. as by then I've already shot the old nag and bought a new one. :lol:

 

[AlienALX]

Honestly I'd rather have the racehorse straight out the box, rather than wait until the pony has grown up.. as by then I've already shot the old nag and bought a new one. :lol:

Yeah. It's a stupid strategy to buy a card that doesn't deliver the goods at launch, hoping it will improve.

As I said, I have an awful feeling Vega is going to be another Fury X (face, mother would love etc).

Like the Fury X it would be pretty crazy to actually buy one. Unless of course you really hate Nvidia that much, or if it's pish cheap.

 

[Daiyus]

Yeah. It's a stupid strategy to buy a card that doesn't deliver the goods at launch, hoping it will improve.

As I said, I have an awful feeling Vega is going to be another Fury X (face, mother would love etc).

Like the Fury X it would be pretty crazy to actually buy one. Unless of course you really hate Nvidia that much, or if it's pish cheap.

If an RX Vega SKU matches or beats a GTX 1070 for an equal or lower price then I'll probably go for one, even with the power issues seen on the FE.

Fact is AMD needs the support and while I can't deny Nvidia certainly make the most powerful gaming cards on the market and will almost definitely hold onto that crown once RX Vega releases in full I don't actually need GTX 1080/Ti performance; nor could I warrant that much money on a single piece of hardware.

If AMD provides the price/performance that I'm after then I'll support them however I cannot do anything but support the decision to buy Nvidia when the consumer needs more performance than AMD can offer; no need to be unrealistically devoted to one brand or the other to the point where you'll reduce your goals to support an underdog.

 

[Dicehunter]

Going by all available info, The top end Vega will be just about competing with a 1080 at a much lower price point, THAT is awesome.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Going by all available info, The top end Vega will be just about competing with a 1080 at a much lower price point, THAT is awesome.

2 things to say to that..

Awesome! Cheaper but same power. Still more wattage though... Interesting that it's cheap considering HBM
And then well this sucks. All that time for... Well not much. Basically CF 480

 

[Dicehunter]

2 things to say to that..

Awesome! Cheaper but same power. Still more wattage though... Interesting that it's cheap considering HBM
And then well this sucks. All that time for... Well not much. Basically CF 480

IF it really is a 1080 competitor but much cheaper then this bodes well for Navi, Could be faster than as 1080 Ti or even Titan Xp at a much lower cost.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Probably will be. However by the time that comes out Nvidia will have there next stuff so AMD will be behind still. Unlike Intel Nvidia are relentless in trying to get better. It's an uphill battle that's going to take years to catch up along with Nvidia making one very important and big mistake that gives AMD time. I don't see it happening