Advice wanted on Radiator [New to P.C Modding]

Black Magic

New member
Hi guys, im new to the PC modding/watercooling scene, & i need some advice on certain things. After countless searching on forums, & youtube videos, im slowly, but surely, piecing togther parts for my watercool build.

Things i have so far:
  • Koolance RP-452x2 Dual Bay Res ( Rev2) :lol:
  • 2 x Aquacomputer Waterblocks for my GTX 580's :lol:
  • TwinConnect Bridge for the above blocks/cards
Things i still need:
  • PrimoChill Primoflex Tubing
  • D5 Pump
  • Barbs/Connectors
  • Radiator
  • Coolant
  • Fans
  • Thermal Paste?
If there is anthing else i might need, or have forgotten, feel free to tell me. My CPU is currently on the Corsair H80 jobbie, & quite frankly, its doing a superb job. so, for now, im not touching it. on my 2600K o/c to 4.5GHz, ive never seen it go above 47C

So my question is this, im struggling for space inside my NZXT Phantom, however, removing all the drive bays will free up some room. To cool 2 GTX 580's, it seems the norm is a 360 radiator. but no-one seems to state on what thickness.

Could i get away with one of the Alphacool NexXxos Monsta 240? http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p12876_Alphacool-NexXxoS-Monsta-240mm.html

as an idea, im looking at temps of the 50C - 60C Range ( cooler would be even better of course! ) on my cards ( yes i have 2 in SLi at the moment. )
 
Well I'm running a 670 and 3770K on a 360x60 Phobya G-Changer v1.2. Granted, the chip is at a ridiculously low voltage for the clock, but considering how hot they like to get, I've been more than happy. In this hot summer, it's run up to about 60*C across the board on its own and about 68 with FurMark running alongside prime. Graphics runs at about 50*C under that load.

The 240x80 is by no means a bad option, however you'd always be better off with increased fan area, as if we assume the same transfer volume, you'll get more airflow with less noise that way. Also, price comes to mind, you might be able to find a 360x60 cheaper, I'm not sure, I've not looked in a while.

If you can fit a 360 Monsta - go for it, stick a set of quiet edition Corsair SP120s on it, or if you like - NF-F12s (if you can find them cheap enough that is), and you shouldn't have much of an issue getting the temps you want. That gives you the option of later adding things into your loop, like more powerful graphics cards, or moving your CPU into it too. If you run a rad that big with the SP120QEs you can stick the low noise adapters on them and they become whisper quiet :)

In any case, for the sake of simplicity you want to keep to a single radiator and go with the biggest that will fit/you can afford.

I don't think a D5 pump would be necessary for two graphics cards, considering it will be a simple loop, but I guess it doesn't hurt to have an overhead just in case.

My personal choice of thermal grease has been for a while and mostly remains Arctic Silver 5. Now, bare in mind, it is capacitive and WILL kill anything electrical it comes into contact with, you also need to fiddle around with it a fair bit until you can get the most out of it without having to wait for the week and a half curing time, so instead I'd point you towards MX-4, which I hear is just as good if not better, and has none of the issues. IC Diamond is also good, unless you're mounting directly on the die, in which case you want to go with something non abrasive.

As far as I know, Tom's been quite happy with the Noctua NT-H1, so that's bound to be decent too.

My advice to you would be to stick a blob in the middle of the die or IHS, about the size of a grain of rice, and let it spread as you squeeze the water block on. This will ensure you get no air trapped between the contact surfaces, resulting in better heat transfer.

As long as the thermal grease isn't too viscous, it shouldn't be a problem to put a little bit more on so that you get full coverage (though unnecessary in my opinion). If you're running bare die, you want at least a bit to squeeze out of the sides, so that full coverage is guaranteed. What you don't want on a bare die is poor coverage, it might result in hot spots which kill your card (that is if the 580s don't have heat spreaders, if they do, you have nothing to worry about).

The size of hose is up to you, if you're going with a D5, it will handle smaller hose, but the general trend is 1/2"ID and 5/8"OD (inside and outside diameter). You will also need fittings to match. If you've seen Tom's water cooling guide, you'll remember what he does with 1/2" barbs and 7/16" hose.

Once you have your main parts together, try to visualise the loop and see where you'll need the barbs to go and how you can run your hose. Keeping the hose as short as possible ensures a tidy loop, reduces the amount of coolant it swallows up and also the resistance or back pressure you'd get from your loop.

You won't know what fittings you need until you start building ironically, and then, you might not be happy with something and end up not using some of the ones you ordered, so getting it within budget with minimum waste is a bit of a trick, but it's doable if you take your time. I'm pretty sure people who do this on a regular basis keep a steady supply of 45s and 90s at the very least. Obviously you and I can't do that, the fittings seem cheap at first, but the price quickly adds up. If you can do it tidily without shelling out on fittings - all the better. You might need a couple of 90s to hook up the blocks though, I'm assuming you want to stick that 240 Monsta in the front, along with the pump and res. I'm kind of jumping ahead here, but I see this with a 90 on the inlet and outlet of your GPU bridge, which you're better off running in series by the way, a hose going straight to the top side from the pump, then out the bottom and into one side of the radiator, then out the other and into the res inlet. You might need a 45 on the radiator inlet just to tidy it up a bit, so that's three fittings so far. Ideally, you want the radiator with the inlet and outlet at the top for easy bleeding, and come to think of it, might as well reverse the loop direction, so you go from pump to rad, blocks and back to res. This way, all the air would bleed out of the top of the radiator, enter the water blocks, then be forced to the top of the water blocks and come straight out into the res, which you can then top up with coolant. I did my sister's rig in a similar way (though she has her CPU on water instead), and it bled fully in minutes.

Come to think of it, you can mount the rad laying flat on the bottom, so that'd be even easier to bleed, but will need a 45 on the bottom of the GPU link and a 45 on one side of the rad. I'm sorry, I seem to be throwing ideas left right and centre here :crazy:, this is supposed to be your build ^_^

When it comes to coolant, you have plenty of options. Depending on what colour you want, any special effects, etc, you'd do well to have a look around. In general, you can't really go wrong with coolant they sell on Specialtech, it's one of the places where enthusiasts buy their gear and if it's not good - it won't sell, so they won't stock it. I'm currently using Mayhem's X1, but after the coolant fiasco around Orca, I defer judgement to Tom on this one, he should be able to point you better.

Oh, and before I forget, as it seems you're mounting this as intake, bare in mind that you will be dumping a lot of heat inside the case, so it's worth at one time or another to flip the fans on the H80 so they intake cold air. The last thing we want is the CPU getting hot because the graphics cards are now dumping all their heat in the case :p

Have I missed anything?
 
Well I'm running a 670 and 3770K on a 360x60 Phobya G-Changer v1.2. Granted, the chip is at a ridiculously low voltage for the clock, but considering how hot they like to get, I've been more than happy. In this hot summer, it's run up to about 60*C across the board on its own and about 68 with FurMark running alongside prime. Graphics runs at about 50*C under that load.

The 240x80 is by no means a bad option, however you'd always be better off with increased fan area, as if we assume the same transfer volume, you'll get more airflow with less noise that way. Also, price comes to mind, you might be able to find a 360x60 cheaper, I'm not sure, I've not looked in a while.

If you can fit a 360 Monsta - go for it, stick a set of quiet edition Corsair SP120s on it, or if you like - NF-F12s (if you can find them cheap enough that is), and you shouldn't have much of an issue getting the temps you want. That gives you the option of later adding things into your loop, like more powerful graphics cards, or moving your CPU into it too. If you run a rad that big with the SP120QEs you can stick the low noise adapters on them and they become whisper quiet :)

In any case, for the sake of simplicity you want to keep to a single radiator and go with the biggest that will fit/you can afford.

I don't think a D5 pump would be necessary for two graphics cards, considering it will be a simple loop, but I guess it doesn't hurt to have an overhead just in case.

My personal choice of thermal grease has been for a while and mostly remains Arctic Silver 5. Now, bare in mind, it is capacitive and WILL kill anything electrical it comes into contact with, you also need to fiddle around with it a fair bit until you can get the most out of it without having to wait for the week and a half curing time, so instead I'd point you towards MX-4, which I hear is just as good if not better, and has none of the issues. IC Diamond is also good, unless you're mounting directly on the die, in which case you want to go with something non abrasive.

As far as I know, Tom's been quite happy with the Noctua NT-H1, so that's bound to be decent too.

My advice to you would be to stick a blob in the middle of the die or IHS, about the size of a grain of rice, and let it spread as you squeeze the water block on. This will ensure you get no air trapped between the contact surfaces, resulting in better heat transfer.

As long as the thermal grease isn't too viscous, it shouldn't be a problem to put a little bit more on so that you get full coverage (though unnecessary in my opinion). If you're running bare die, you want at least a bit to squeeze out of the sides, so that full coverage is guaranteed. What you don't want on a bare die is poor coverage, it might result in hot spots which kill your card (that is if the 580s don't have heat spreaders, if they do, you have nothing to worry about).

The size of hose is up to you, if you're going with a D5, it will handle smaller hose, but the general trend is 1/2"ID and 5/8"OD (inside and outside diameter). You will also need fittings to match. If you've seen Tom's water cooling guide, you'll remember what he does with 1/2" barbs and 7/16" hose.

Once you have your main parts together, try to visualise the loop and see where you'll need the barbs to go and how you can run your hose. Keeping the hose as short as possible ensures a tidy loop, reduces the amount of coolant it swallows up and also the resistance or back pressure you'd get from your loop.

You won't know what fittings you need until you start building ironically, and then, you might not be happy with something and end up not using some of the ones you ordered, so getting it within budget with minimum waste is a bit of a trick, but it's doable if you take your time. I'm pretty sure people who do this on a regular basis keep a steady supply of 45s and 90s at the very least. Obviously you and I can't do that, the fittings seem cheap at first, but the price quickly adds up. If you can do it tidily without shelling out on fittings - all the better. You might need a couple of 90s to hook up the blocks though, I'm assuming you want to stick that 240 Monsta in the front, along with the pump and res. I'm kind of jumping ahead here, but I see this with a 90 on the inlet and outlet of your GPU bridge, which you're better off running in series by the way, a hose going straight to the top side from the pump, then out the bottom and into one side of the radiator, then out the other and into the res inlet. You might need a 45 on the radiator inlet just to tidy it up a bit, so that's three fittings so far. Ideally, you want the radiator with the inlet and outlet at the top for easy bleeding, and come to think of it, might as well reverse the loop direction, so you go from pump to rad, blocks and back to res. This way, all the air would bleed out of the top of the radiator, enter the water blocks, then be forced to the top of the water blocks and come straight out into the res, which you can then top up with coolant. I did my sister's rig in a similar way (though she has her CPU on water instead), and it bled fully in minutes.

Come to think of it, you can mount the rad laying flat on the bottom, so that'd be even easier to bleed, but will need a 45 on the bottom of the GPU link and a 45 on one side of the rad. I'm sorry, I seem to be throwing ideas left right and centre here :crazy:, this is supposed to be your build ^_^

When it comes to coolant, you have plenty of options. Depending on what colour you want, any special effects, etc, you'd do well to have a look around. In general, you can't really go wrong with coolant they sell on Specialtech, it's one of the places where enthusiasts buy their gear and if it's not good - it won't sell, so they won't stock it. I'm currently using Mayhem's X1, but after the coolant fiasco around Orca, I defer judgement to Tom on this one, he should be able to point you better.

Oh, and before I forget, as it seems you're mounting this as intake, bare in mind that you will be dumping a lot of heat inside the case, so it's worth at one time or another to flip the fans on the H80 so they intake cold air. The last thing we want is the CPU getting hot because the graphics cards are now dumping all their heat in the case :p

Have I missed anything?

Make sure you say thank you for that mammoth reply. Kudos.
 
Im personally not a fan of running a H80 separate tbh. Id want a bigger rad and cpu in the loop too if it was me....
 
Im personally not a fan of running a H80 separate tbh. Id want a bigger rad and cpu in the loop too if it was me....

Agreed, if anything, it'll look much better if that H80 isn't in there creating conflicting aesthetics. Would a 360x80 fit in the top of a Phantom though? I've not played with one yet.
 
Now that is a detailed writeup of help i wanted/needed! Thanks for this, im going to respond to some points if i may ^_^
If you can fit a 360 Monsta - go for it, stick a set of quiet edition Corsair SP120s on it, or if you like - NF-F12s (if you can find them cheap enough that is), and you shouldn't have much of an issue getting the temps you want.

a 360 Monsta will not fit inside my case. It could be mounted outside, but its a matter of mounting it thats going to cause a problem. Hence the Monsta 260 with a push-pull configuration, & the Rad lying down as you also mentioned for easy-bleeding. But if its insufficient, ill get the white Monsta 360 :cool:


.......so instead I'd point you towards MX-4, which I hear is just as good if not better, and has none of the issues.
then, the MX-4 i shall get. :) The Blocks came with pads, do i use the pads for the smaller chips on the card, & the Paste on the main Chip, or, use paste all round?

My advice to you would be to stick a blob in the middle of the die or IHS, about the size of a grain of rice, and let it spread as you squeeze the water block on. This will ensure you get no air trapped between the contact surfaces, resulting in better heat transfer.
I dont know what you mean by die, or IHS (sorry, my knowledge isnt that great.... ) but im asuming u mean the chip :lol:

What you don't want on a bare die is poor coverage, it might result in hot spots which kill your card (that is if the 580s don't have heat spreaders, if they do, you have nothing to worry about).
Not sure if i have heatspreaders or not. :confused: Ive got two of the Gainward 580's. & im crossing my fingers the waterblocks will fit straight on, as i've read, the EVGA cards were incompatible with their waterblocks due to heatspreaders.

The size of hose is up to you, if you're going with a D5, it will handle smaller hose, but the general trend is 1/2"ID and 5/8"OD (inside and outside diameter). You will also need fittings to match. If you've seen Tom's water cooling guide, you'll remember what he does with 1/2" barbs and 7/16" hose.

yes, thats the size ill be getting. Im guessing 1metre will be enough for res-rad-cards & back.

I'm assuming you want to stick that 240 Monsta in the front, along with the pump and res. I'm kind of jumping ahead here, but I see this with a 90 on the inlet and outlet of your GPU bridge, which you're better off running in series by the way, a hose going straight to the top side from the pump, then out the bottom and into one side of the radiator, then out the other and into the res inlet. You might need a 45 on the radiator inlet just to tidy it up a bit, so that's three fittings so far. Ideally, you want the radiator with the inlet and outlet at the top for easy bleeding, and come to think of it, might as well reverse the loop direction, so you go from pump to rad, blocks and back to res. This way, all the air would bleed out of the top of the radiator, enter the water blocks, then be forced to the top of the water blocks and come straight out into the res, which you can then top up with coolant. I did my sister's rig in a similar way (though she has her CPU on water instead), and it bled fully in minutes.

Come to think of it, you can mount the rad laying flat on the bottom, so that'd be even easier to bleed, but will need a 45 on the bottom of the GPU link and a 45 on one side of the rad. I'm sorry, I seem to be throwing ideas left right and centre here :crazy:, this is supposed to be your build ^_^

correct, i want the rad lying down with push/pull, but im allways open to suggestions. Money here is not the problem, its space. But if you genuinely feel that the 240 isnt going to cut it, then i guess ill have to get the 360, & find someway of mounting it externally.

When it comes to coolant, you have plenty of options. Depending on what colour you want, any special effects, etc, you'd do well to have a look around. In general, you can't really go wrong with coolant they sell on Specialtech, it's one of the places where enthusiasts buy their gear and if it's not good - it won't sell, so they won't stock it. I'm currently using Mayhem's X1, but after the coolant fiasco around Orca, I defer judgement to Tom on this one, he should be able to point you better.
I wouldnt mind a link :) but other than coolant, do i need biocide or anything else? again, im getting confused with all these addatives people are using!! :lol:

Oh, and before I forget, as it seems you're mounting this as intake, bare in mind that you will be dumping a lot of heat inside the case, so it's worth at one time or another to flip the fans on the H80 so they intake cold air. The last thing we want is the CPU getting hot because the graphics cards are now dumping all their heat in the case :p

Have I missed anything?
ok, never thought of that. But as it stands, its pulling air from within case, thro rad, with other fan exhausting outwards.
 
i'd punt the H80 on Ebay/Gumtree and buy a CPU block.

Something like a XSPC RayStorm or EK Supremacy is like an extra £55 on top of your WC budget :)
 
a 360x60 would be fine.

externally will look crap. Change your case.


Get the Switch 810 and your problems are over and you have a MUCH better case
 
Basically, the central and graphics processors are little circuit boards with a chip on them, soldered or socketed to a bigger board. The boards have a chip on them (the die), and in CPU cases - they have a nice big metal cap on top of them, called the Integrated Heat Spreader, or IHS for short. To the best of my knowledge, nVidia cards used metal caps on the 2xx, 4xx and 5xx series, dropping it for a direct contact die from 6xx onwards. This means that if I'm right, your cards will have a nice big metal cap straight over the core, much like your CPU. That's both good and bad news. Good news is, you won't have thermal grease worries. Bad news is, adding 3mm of copper between the die and the block only impedes heat transfer, so temps won't be as good as they could have been without it, but that's shared among all 580s as far as I'm aware. Use the included thermal pads on the RAM chips and VRMs, you should have had an instruction leaflet showing you where to stick those. Try not to get too many finger prints on them :P

Since budget isn't an issue, you're better off getting either a Monsta 120 to go in the back, or preferably the biggest rad you can stick in the top of your case, get rid of that H80 (as per Tom's suggestion), get yourself a nice CPU block (XSPC, EK, AlphaCool, Swiftech - if it's on specialtech - it should be good), differences between them were between 1 and 5 degrees last time I checked (someone can correct me), so you can afford to go with what looks best in your rig, especially considering how cold that chip of yours runs, and you should be fine.

Don't bother with push-pull to begin with, see how good the temps are. You might end up with decent performance with just one set of fans, especially considering how tight it's going to be to fit everything else in there. Since you're not bothered about how expensive it might turn out, you're best off getting all the parts, putting together a mock up of the layout, finding out the tidiest way to do things, then ordering the fittings you need.

If you want to be overly conservative with hose, you can use a piece of string to measure the length of what you think you'll need, but I'd just play it safe and order a couple of metres. That'll leave you some to play with in the future if you ever upgrade or change the layout.

Here's a selection of pre-mix coolants, they should be ready to go out of the bottle. This is the "no hassle" way of doing it, and you should be fine unless you want to customise the colour. Dyes are also available here.

http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Premix-Coolants-cid-2654.html

Something tells me (Tom's post :P) that you will be able to stick a 360 in the top of your case, if you get rid of the H80 I imagine. This is still your best option, even if it is just 60mm thick, so carefully consider that option. The only downside I'd see with that is that the barbs would have to face down, so you'll have to tilt the case, but that's a small price to pay for a decent loop.

It's not about "is it going to cut it", this is a high budget build, so you might as well do it properly. ;)
 
a 360x60 would be fine.

externally will look crap. Change your case.


Get the Switch 810 and your problems are over and you have a MUCH better case

my first thought when I read phantom. I got rid of my phantom for the haf x when I went to water, wish it was now I'd get the corsair 540
 
my first thought when I read phantom. I got rid of my phantom for the haf x when I went to water, wish it was now I'd get the corsair 540

My HAF X treated me quite well, I can't really complain, it even holds my honey jar well enough over the rad, so I always have a bit of liquid honey if ever I feel like having any :P
 
ok, 233kosta, thats an excellent writeup. & now, i understand what some abbriviations are now finally, haha!

a great tip on the pice of string lol, never thought of that! so, to sum it up, a monsta 120 on the back for CPU, a monsta or 60mm 360 up top ( which means removing my fat ass fans taking heat out :( , quite liked them too..... ) and/or, another case?

best get pricing it up, & thanks for the link. time to go shopping lol!

PS: yes i got a little booklet with my blocks & cards.
 
Well you're really better off with the 360, if an 80mm thick rad won't interfere with your board - so much better, but if Tom says 60mm is enough, then it's enough :P

You're best off getting rid of the giant fans on the top and seeing what kind of mounts you have and the spacing underneath. Best measure with a ruler before you buy parts, just to make sure it will all fit OK, don't want to end up with a rad that won't fit now, do we :P

I'll have a look at a few Phantom pics, I might have misread Tom's post previously :dammit:

One of the pics looks like it can take a 30mm thick rad, with 25mm fans and still have a bit of clearance, so you'll get away with a 60mm one, IF you stick the fans on the outer side (if they fit), but you will need a radiator grille, otherwise you can't really secure it properly :/

So yeh, looks like you have to decide whether you want to swap your case or not. I really should have read up on this case before I opened up my big mouth :banghead:
 
As far as I remember the phantom will only take a 30mm 240 up top with out modding

Only just sold mine or I could of done some measuring :(
 
If you like the Phantom looks there are always the Phantom 820 and 630 or even the Phantom 530 mid tower case.
 
ok, arent they smaller?

im off to go check these towers.... :D

Go watch Tom's reviews on the 810 and 830. The 810 is the base "no bullshit" model, which is in my opinion neater looking, and the Phantom 830 has all the plastic bits on it, which make it look cheap somehow.

Anyway, these two cases are essentially the same chasis with cosmetic modifications, and they have all the rad space you could ever want :P

Go watch the reviews and see if you like them :D
 
820 not 830 right? That 810 is really good, & got a fair bit of room inside......

not many optical bays though, as ill need 5. & i noticed the top rad with push/pull config, was fouling that riveted plate.

now watching the 820 review :D
 
820 not 830 right? That 810 is really good, & got a fair bit of room inside......

not many optical bays though, as ill need 5. & i noticed the top rad with push/pull config, was fouling that riveted plate.

now watching the 820 review :D

820? Oops :blush:

What do you need all these optical bays for? Two for the res, one for a fan controller (COMPLETELY unnecessary) and one for an optical drive (if you still use one). That makes four. Take off the hot swap bay and you're set.

If you're only using a 60mm rad, stick some SP120QEs on it, and leave them in pull. You might even get away with running them at 7V 24/7 (I think that's what the resistors take them down to), which would make them damn near silent as far as I'm aware, so you won't need that fan controller.

From what I've heard, a D5 stays really quiet even at full blast, so that won't be an issue either.

I'm not sure what other case to suggest with that many drive bays and that would have the rad space, besides maybe the HAF X, which is quite old now, but it comes with 4 drive bays, 2 hot swap bays, which should be adaptable to hold a pump-res for example (not sure, I've not tried to take the hot swap bits off yet), and will happily take a 360x60 in push-pull, or a 360x80 in pull. You might want to get some slightly longer fan screws for that one, only by a few mm though.

I'd say have a gander at the Cosmos 2 review, the CKC build and the 900D review, and see if something takes your fancy.

With these larger cases, you might get away with having a second radiator somewhere (not the HAF X, that would just look silly with a second rad :P) if they have the mount space, for example if you took a drive cage off the 810 (if you can only run the top one), you'd be able to squeeze a 240x60 with a set of fans on it in the space you free up, but I don't know if you'd then have a way to secure the top cage. The Cosmos 2 and 900D definitely have the space to go with a second rad, with the 900D capable of taking a single huge rad in the bottom, which would solve all your problems pretty much right away.

As I said, have a look at the reviews and see what takes your fancy. I can sit here and suggest stuff all day long, but you have to like the case you're going with B)

<EDIT>
Looks like the 810 will hold the top cage on its own, so I guess that's a bit of good news for a second rad in the bottom :)
<EDIT>
 
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