Advice wanted on Radiator [New to P.C Modding]

i have 1 DVD/burner drive, for burning all my tunes on, so i got something to listen to in the car, lol, a multi-card reader, with more USB ports on it, which comes in useful for our holiday pics we upload from time to time, obviosuly the dual bay resovoir, & a blu-ray drive, for watching blu rays on for me & kids.

im still leaning towards the 820, simply because it closly resembles the phantom, which is why i bought the phantom in the first place. it wasnt just a standard square box. Tho, that price is a little offputting, but i think shopping around, i may just save on it.

not to mention the fan controller on it, which is a nice touch on both phantoms. tho saying that, ive still got, brand new in the box, an NZXT sentry standalone, which i bought by accident. but now, i could probably use that.

I'm lovign the help/suggestions, & its certainly giving me something to think about.
 
Black Magic said:
i have 1 DVD/burner drive, for burning all my tunes on, so i got something to listen to in the car, lol, a multi-card reader, with more USB ports on it, which comes in useful for our holiday pics we upload from time to time, obviosuly the dual bay resovoir, & a blu-ray drive, for watching blu rays on for me & kids.

im still leaning towards the 820, simply because it closly resembles the phantom, which is why i bought the phantom in the first place. it wasnt just a standard square box. Tho, that price is a little offputting, but i think shopping around, i may just save on it.

not to mention the fan controller on it, which is a nice touch on both phantoms. tho saying that, ive still got, brand new in the box, an NZXT sentry standalone, which i bought by accident. but now, i could probably use that.

I'm lovign the help/suggestions, & its certainly giving me something to think about.
Click to expand...


The first thing I'd do if I were you would be to sell the drives and get a Blu Ray burner, as it will take care of all your optical drive needs. As I said earlier, if the water cooling system has sufficient capacity, permanently reduced fan speed (via resistor cables) will keep your system very quiet, removing the necessity for a fan controller.

So that leaves you with the need of four 5.25 bays. Not sure what to do about the card reader, maybe an external one would do the job if you don't use it that often, but I think it's time to consider a tube res as well, that'll save you two bays. Since you're going with a D5, you can get one of plenty pump tops and mount it wherever you'd like inside your case. I'd make sure that there is a separate inlet and outlet for the res, as if you have a single hole doing both you will have many filling and bleeding issues, plus you'll be reducing the thermal mass of your coolant to only what's in the hose, blocks and rads, and not what's into the res as well, since that would effectively be out of the loop. If the tube isn't too long, you can pump fluid in through the top of the res (if it has the inlets), provided you have a tube going inside it. That tube would ensure that you maintain a closed loop as the inlet would always be under the coolant level (if filled sufficiently), thus preventing back flow which would pull air into the system when you switch it off. Every bay res I know of has ways around this, but tube ones need a bit of thought to go into them before you start :)

I didn't think of this one before, but have you considered a Silverstone TJ07? A bit old school, but that never hurt anyone, right? :P

That should have all your drive bay needs covered, as well as plenty of radiator mount space in the bottom compartment. That's on the pricy side of things, but it's also a popular choice for water cooling because of its layout.

Come to think of it, the 800D pops into my head as well. Don't think I ever truly liked that case, but it does have the drive bays. I think the top one might be fouled by the radiator though.

Help and suggestions is what we're here for. The fine chaps who operate this forum have helped us all, likely more than once, so we attempt to return the favour by spreading the knowledge :)
 
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ok, im really liking the Phantom 820. Its such a shame on my current phantom, as a monsta 240 would fit in the bottom too. & ive bought the DEMCiFLex filters for it too, to keep that rotten dust out.

now, watching Toms review on it, & then reading the spec on the case, it says you can fit in the roof, 3x120mm. but what thickness, & should i go push pull? if so, ( & i would prefer it to get that heat out & upwards & stay out with them running at a slowish speed ) If not, again, what thickness rad would you recommend?

the Resovoir ive already bought, so cant really change it now. I think regarding the bays, ill have to sacrifice the card reader, till i can afford a bluu-ray burner, but again, costs are mounting up, & all i wanted to do origianlly was mount a rad & get going. I wasnt after super cool temps, & im still going to leave the H80 CPU cooler on. AS if it aint broke, dont fix it :P It really is running cool!
 
Black Magic said:
ok, im really liking the Phantom 820. Its such a shame on my current phantom, as a monsta 240 would fit in the bottom too. & ive bought the DEMCiFLex filters for it too, to keep that rotten dust out.

now, watching Toms review on it, & then reading the spec on the case, it says you can fit in the roof, 3x120mm. but what thickness, & should i go push pull? if so, ( & i would prefer it to get that heat out & upwards & stay out with them running at a slowish speed ) If not, again, what thickness rad would you recommend?

the Resovoir ive already bought, so cant really change it now. I think regarding the bays, ill have to sacrifice the card reader, till i can afford a bluu-ray burner, but again, costs are mounting up, & all i wanted to do origianlly was mount a rad & get going. I wasnt after super cool temps, & im still going to leave the H80 CPU cooler on. AS if it aint broke, dont fix it :P It really is running cool!
Click to expand...

Well if it were up to me, I'd go with the thickest rad I could fit/afford. As it is, both 60 and 80 will foul the top drive bay, so you'll have to decide what you want to do with that. If I were you, I'd try just pull first, with the fans on the other side, keeping things cool. I'm pretty certain though that if you leave that H80 in there, it WILL foul the rad, so it'll have to go.

Alternatively, we can go back to the original phantom, stick that 240 monsta in the bottom, but also add a 240 in the top (biggest one that will fit). You can measure your clearance to the H80 from the top of the case, also, see if there's space on the outside (within the plastic) to mount 25mm fans. If there is, you can have the full clearance measured earlier for that radiator. You want to mount it with the inlet and outlet facing forward, the aft end is cluttered enough with the H80 as it is, I can guarantee you there won't be space for barbs there.

This is certainly the cheapest option, as it won't involve swapping out the case. I still think though you might as well sell the H80 and get a decent CPU block, what you get for the H80 should offset the price of that block.

Measure up the top of your case and let us know what kind of space you have to play with, there's bound to be something out there that will do the job right :)
 
ok i got some measurements finally today. from the top of my case, to the top edge of the motherboard, was 51mm. & thats if the rad is wide enough that it foul it.

I had holes in the top of the case, where my 200mm fans are, & i measured 110mm spacing inbetween the 2 large fans in the roof ( if rads have 110mm spacing?? ) & that would mean it could only be bolted into place in the centre of the rad.

otherwise, the holes that are used for the fans right now, have 145mm spacing. which obviosuly could also be used to hold the rad in all 4 corners, but if thicker than 51mm, it would foul the MB.

if the 110mm holes are used to secure the rad in its most centre point, then it wouldnt foul the MB/heatsinks at all.

i measured the max length it could be was 375mm - 380mm

at the back end of my case, where the H80 sits, ive got 30mm space from the very top of it, to the top of the case....
 
Black Magic said:
ok i got some measurements finally today. from the top of my case, to the top edge of the motherboard, was 51mm. & thats if the rad is wide enough that it foul it.

I had holes in the top of the case, where my 200mm fans are, & i measured 110mm spacing inbetween the 2 large fans in the roof ( if rads have 110mm spacing?? ) & that would mean it could only be bolted into place in the centre of the rad.

otherwise, the holes that are used for the fans right now, have 145mm spacing. which obviosuly could also be used to hold the rad in all 4 corners, but if thicker than 51mm, it would foul the MB.

if the 110mm holes are used to secure the rad in its most centre point, then it wouldnt foul the MB/heatsinks at all.

i measured the max length it could be was 375mm - 380mm

at the back end of my case, where the H80 sits, ive got 30mm space from the very top of it, to the top of the case....
Click to expand...

OK, these numbers we can work with :)

My crude estimation is that you'll get away with a 360x45 rad in there, granted you mount the fans on the outside. As I suggested in an earlier post, you want to get a rad grille (available quite cheaply I think), which would provide a plate to place on top of the rad, above the crossmember which holds the case together. You then mount the fans on top of that using some 35 or 37 mm screws, and you should be set. Just be a bit extra careful when transporting the case, though that goes without saying for any water cooled equipment anyway.

If you insist on keeping the H80, I'd go with a 240x45, which _should_ mount far enough forwards not to foul the H80, though that's for you to determine. Again, you probably want a rad grille and the extended fan screws (35/37mm), just to make sure you've got good support.

You could make your own custom rad grille, which would go over the existing mounting holes, if you have access to sheet aluminium, a pillar drill and a saw. Won't look pretty if you're not experienced, but you won't be able to see it, so who cares :P

Can also use two of the holes in the middle to fix the rad in place, so it won't move about. Depending on the grille you get, you might not even need to use the screw holes, instead bolt through the mesh or whatever pattern is on the face of the grille, in the correct location, so it will stay in place.

paulstung said:
Aren't the hole spacings for rads 150mm or 200mm ?
Click to expand...

The standard spacings are 15mm, some rads come with 20mm. That's between fans. Across the fan - depends on how big the fan is.
 
ok, so, just to clear things up in my head. If i was to cool both cards AND the i7, then 1 360 x 45mm rad up top will do the job, & if its just the cards, then a 240 x 45mm up top plus the H80 for the i7 correct?

drilling the case for more screw holes doesnt bother me, well, i'm sort of expecting to drill holes to make sure all my gubbings are supported & not wobbling around lol

but say, i mount the rad up top, im guessing im going to have to cut out the metal between the two 200mm fans, as that'll be blocking some air? or will it not matter?

just remeber, down bottom, i can still mount a phat 60mm or even 80mm rad down there, 240mm of course. But seriously, i'm starting to think weather or not to go for, as suggested for the Phantom 820 case.....
 
Black Magic said:
ok, so, just to clear things up in my head. If i was to cool both cards AND the i7, then 1 360 x 45mm rad up top will do the job, & if its just the cards, then a 240 x 45mm up top plus the H80 for the i7 correct?

drilling the case for more screw holes doesnt bother me, well, i'm sort of expecting to drill holes to make sure all my gubbings are supported & not wobbling around lol

but say, i mount the rad up top, im guessing im going to have to cut out the metal between the two 200mm fans, as that'll be blocking some air? or will it not matter?

just remeber, down bottom, i can still mount a phat 60mm or even 80mm rad down there, 240mm of course. But seriously, i'm starting to think weather or not to go for, as suggested for the Phantom 820 case.....
Click to expand...

That metal between the fan holes is what will hold the rad in place, under no circumstances should you remove it :P

I thought we had the general understanding that this is going to be in addition to at least a 240x60 in the bottom :rolleyes:

After all, a pair of 580s won't cool themselves ^_^

In any case, a single 240x80 in the bottom will "do the job", but your temps won't be much better, hence the extra rad in the top.

The 820 is always a good single rad option, so it's up to you whether you want one or not, I personally think it looks a bit flashy, considering it's an 810 with bits of plastic on it, but if you like it - you like it. This is your case, not mine :)

You won't have to mod it to get a 360x60 in there, and there are some real good rads that might fit with the colour scheme, though they cost about as much as the case :o

Well here it is,

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product...wo-circuits--stainless-steel-side-panels.html

Note, it is quite restrictive, so going with a D5 was a wise decision :)

Here's a review of the copper finned version, which is 40 quid more

http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/aquacomputer-airplex-modularity-system/6/

These chaps have put it through a synthetic test and obtained quantifiable results with fewer variables (that and I couldn't find one on :oc3d: :().

Bare in mind that this rad is as I said very expensive for its size, considering you can get a G-Changer for about half that on specialtech, but I think it's worth bringing to your attention so you know what's out there.

My experience with the Phobya G-Changer

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop...--G-Changer-360-V2-Full-Copper-pid-11875.html

has been quite satisfactory, with a single GPU and a 3770K (and the fans so quiet you can't hear them at all), I've had good deltas, with the 670 going to about 15* delta at load from 5* delta at idle, so I imagine you'll get 20* delta with two cards. That's with prime running in the background as well.

Considering the highest I saw on my card was 52*C with a room temp of 35, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect around 60*C from yours under gaming/bench load with quiet fans, assuming 20-25*C room temperature

Should you wish to keep your Phantom and go with a 240x80 an 360x45, I'd expect somewhat better temps, as you would then have greater cooling capacity of your radiators, but as Tom has said many times, there comes a point at which adding radiators doesn't help (when you have like 20 of them :P) due to inefficiency in water block design, but that's a whole other topic, which is rather long winded.

See what you make of the dual rad suggestion, modding your case to fit that top rad won't be an issue, we'll tackle that when (if) we get to it :)
 
ok, that performance link, really was suprising, considering how restrictive they were saying it was. But a noticiable change in temps, as soon as the fans start kicking in.

whats the diffence between the alu & copper finned one? is it just looks, or performance? obviosuly, if its just looks, i'd stay with the alu one, but, i remember people mentioning that you cant mix metals ( at least to some degree ) when liquid cooling. & as far as i know, my aquacomputer waterblocks are copper.

What does it mean by "one circuit or two circuits" ? which one would i need? I think purchasing that Airplex one, would probably see me good for upgrades to come, which would deffinatly be an investment, & i thank you for bringing it to my attention. To me, it seems reasonable that price ( i wasnt looking for cheap nasties at least ) for what i was expecting radiators to cost me.

I really think now, after all this advice your sending my way, I'm going to go for the 820 ( im a sucka for stylish :P towers.... ) buy that rad when yove answered my questions, get a monsta in bottom, then go from there!!

& 1 more question. Starting from my Res/D5 pump, how would the loop go?
 
Black Magic said:
ok, that performance link, really was suprising, considering how restrictive they were saying it was. But a noticiable change in temps, as soon as the fans start kicking in.

whats the diffence between the alu & copper finned one? is it just looks, or performance? obviosuly, if its just looks, i'd stay with the alu one, but, i remember people mentioning that you cant mix metals ( at least to some degree ) when liquid cooling. & as far as i know, my aquacomputer waterblocks are copper.

What does it mean by "one circuit or two circuits" ? which one would i need? I think purchasing that Airplex one, would probably see me good for upgrades to come, which would deffinatly be an investment, & i thank you for bringing it to my attention. To me, it seems reasonable that price ( i wasnt looking for cheap nasties at least ) for what i was expecting radiators to cost me.

I really think now, after all this advice your sending my way, I'm going to go for the 820 ( im a sucka for stylish :P towers.... ) buy that rad when yove answered my questions, get a monsta in bottom, then go from there!!

& 1 more question. Starting from my Res/D5 pump, how would the loop go?
Click to expand...

If you go with the airplex, you want a single circuit rad (cheaper and you don't need a dual anyway, it'd just complicate things). The copper has been put there for performance reasons, expect poorer performance from the Al one. I think it's got about double the heat conductivity of aluminium, as for mixing metals, I've never heard that one, can't think of a reason other than aesthetics off the top of my head, maybe someone can explain to me.

If you go 820, you don't need the bottom rad, especially with the AMS. That's only if you upgrade to a really hot chip in my opinion, and if an H80 is handling that 2600K fine - don't worry about it. A single rad will do you fine. I was saying that you'll need it if you want to stick to your Phantom.

Ideally, you want to run from the pump to the rad, then down to the water blocks (whichever order looks tidier), then back up to the res. Run your cards in series, GPU blocks aren't very restrictive, your main issue is the rad on this one.

You won't know how to do it until you build a mock up in the new case and see how it looks, and for that you need the setup ready to go (blocks, rads, case, etc).

For this particular rad, it's probably worth going push-pull with SP120QEs, since it would be quite restrictive of airflow. You might also need to turn up that D5 to 4 or 5, but that's for you to experiment with. If Orca was fine on 3, you might get away with it too :)

Let me know what you decide.
 
ok, excellent. i most deffinatly will let you know. & ill get pics up too! expect some updates in a couple weeks, when i get payed.

This is going to to be some exciting stuff!

is there anything you can suggest that i can use to clean my cards that are full of dust? Not that there full of dust, as i got some good filters, but theres allways some particles of dust in the depths when i come to remove the fans....

by the way, youve given me so much info & advice, i really mus say a phat thankyou!!
 
Don't worry about it :D I look forward to the pics :)

When I wipe down my stuff, I use baby wipes (or wet wipes, whatever you call them). Make sure they're not too wet, otherwise they might just drip on your cards, and that's an annoyance. Anything you miss, you can get with ear buds. Better if they're a little damp too, makes the dust stick to them like glue.

After you're done, you want to leave them out for about an hour to make sure it's all dried up. Since baby wipes usually have alcohol on them, it should dry relatively quickly, but we don't want to take any chances here.

Before I forget, since you're using AS5, I'd suggest you get the ArctiClean pack. This stuff gets rid of residual thermal grease in seconds, and will also allow you to remove any hardened bits easier. Comes with an IPA based solution to get rid of the thermal interface, and a counteracting agent to get rid of the solution after you're done, to make sure it doesn't dissolve the thermal compound you want on the surface. Not sure it works on Gallium based thermal interface (such as Phobya Liquid Metal), but then you wouldn't want to get rid of any residual LM anyway, you're better off leaving it in there to fill the gaps :p

Before I forget, here's the copper finned version of that AMS rad

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product...one-circuit--stainless-steel-side-panels.html

If you have space for a 480 (not in the 820 I'm afraid :() here's a link to the offers they have on specialtech

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Aquacomputer-AMS-Radiators--Accessories-cid-2410.html

For the same price as the copper fin one you can have an Al fin 480 with a D5 on it, though I'm not exactly sure where you'd stick that 480 :p

I'm getting excited about this already :D:D:D
 
lol, awesome. that second link, what am I looking at there, or do I need? or are they only for the 480? I wont be going for a 480, its far too big! Sticking with the 360 for now.

The D5 pump is going straight into my resovoir That Koolance have a slot for. ( has room for 2 pumps which is good ). I notice some have a separate tacho lead. is it worth getting it with that lead on it or not?
 
Black Magic said:
lol, awesome. that second link, what am I looking at there, or do I need? or are they only for the 480? I wont be going for a 480, its far too big! Sticking with the 360 for now.

The D5 pump is going straight into my resovoir That Koolance have a slot for. ( has room for 2 pumps which is good ). I notice some have a separate tacho lead. is it worth getting it with that lead on it or not?
Click to expand...

No AMS 360s in there I'm afraid :/ If you want one, you'll have to shell out at aquatuning :(

Getting it with a D5 is 100 quid more, so might as well buy the pump separate, you'll save yourself quite a bit as far as I'm aware, though I've not looked at D5 prices recently. Last I checked, they were about 50 - 60 quid a pop, so definitely better off going separate, than the aquatuning rad+D5 ripoff. I stuck the 480s in there as more of a "here's what's out there" kind of thing, rather than a suggestion for consideration, as far as I'm aware, a 360 is the biggest you can get into an 820. The 240s aren't bad though, in case you later develop a need for one, though I'd still go copper instead, especially in 240.

What I was thinking was you can take the pump off the rad and use it with your res, but I'm not sure if they include the other bracket you'd need for it, so I think it's not worth the risk anyway. Keep your eyes peeled on specialtech though, one might pop up in the next couple of weeks, and if it's a good deal - might as well ;)

I think it's worth getting it with that lead, which you then plug into your motherboard and set the loudest alarm there is if the damn thing goes to zero. It's effectively a "dead pump" sensor, setting off the above alarm, which is a better warning than spiking temps due to no flow, you will agree :boink:
 
233Kosta said:
What I was thinking was you can take the pump off the rad and use it with your res, but I'm not sure if they include the other bracket you'd need for it, so I think it's not worth the risk anyway. Keep your eyes peeled on specialtech though, one might pop up in the next couple of weeks, and if it's a good deal - might as well ;)
Click to expand...
ok you lost me here. That copper 360 Rad comes with a pump?

& what am I keeping my eyes peeled for, the rad or pump lol :confused:
 
Yh, I don't make much sense when I've been up for more than 18 hours :crazy: Not without copious amounts of coffee anyway :p

Anyway, basically, keep your eyes on this page

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/Aquacomputer-AMS-Radiators--Accessories-cid-2410.html

in case a copper 360 pops up, they might do it under the summer sale discounts, so it might end up being a bit cheaper.

I found you a D5 pump here

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop...Pin-Tacho-Cable-Single-Edition-pid-16532.html

I'd imagine any ol' D5 would do the job, however that has the speed cable and is rated up to 24V if you need that at all, though if you must go with Aquacomputer on the D5 as well, here's one that's pretty much exactly the same, but 5 quid more

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop...Laing-D5-Pump-with-Tachosignal-pid-14022.html

Only difference I notice is that the Aquacomputer one is a bit shorter, though with your res that shouldn't bother you anyway. I personally don't think 20mm are worth 5 quid, but I'm just throwing it out there. There are other pumps available, it's just that these two seem to be at a reasonable price (well I wouldn't pay more for a pump anyway, D5 or not), so here they are.
 
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