!!!Why audio people despise internal soundcards!!! (this is usefull for everybody)

[Sir-Weasel]

!!!Why internal gaming soundcards aren't worth it !!! (this is usefull for everybody)

I've been telling people to stay away from internale soundcards because they make your
audio quality worse but no matter what i said some people wouldn't listen to me.
but the day has finaly come that one of my favorite youtubers Logan made a vid
about this audio problem and why you shouldn't throw your money away with buying a
soundcard. I hope this convinces some people because i'm tired of people telling each other
that there soundcard is great and even recommending it. Just watch this and i hope no one
will make the mistake off
buying a soundcard again after watching this vid



Welcome to the world of people who know better (well atleast when it comes to audio) :lol:


i'm not trying to offend anybody
I'm not saying people how bought soundcards are stupid i'm just saying that this is the way to go to improve your audio from now on
saying this because some people are really sensitive to the criticism on how they spend there money

 

[SieB]

I watched this video last night and I can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that the sound quality from my STX is vastly superior to my motherboard.

From the title of the vid "gaming audio" yep, to be honest there isn't much difference between on board and my soundcard. Although, I would still say the sound quality from my soundcard is still better than from the motherboard if only slightly.
Movies and Music is a whole different story though, the quality difference with music and movies is miles better, it's night and day.

 

[barnsley]

For gaming there isn't a difference. For audio and surround sound there is.

 

[maniac]

I can honestly say I could hear the difference even in games, with both onboard audio and a soundcard and different headphones.

 

[Snortan]

If we are talking about sound cards which are labeled as gaming sound cards then I agree, otherwise I can't understand how can he say that "with good headphones, I guarantee you (dedicated soundcard)it will sound the same if not worse(than onboard)".

 

[maniac]

We need James Riley on this one....

 

[Sir-Weasel]

i've testes quiet some soundcard also the stx and i must say myself that there is a difference in sound (that i don't like) but the main thing is how loud it gets your headphones. And don't forget the placebo effect.

the most important is what headphones are you using (as said in the vid gaming headphones are junk)

I've done some blind testing myself and i almost cound't tell the difference between on board and internale the only differende was a slite hissing sound and some eq difference (with the soundcard). But the difference between an external and internale for the same price is immense difference.

as i said keep this in mind when you are upgrading your audio setup next time

I can honestly say I could hear the difference even in games, with both onboard audio and a soundcard and different headphones.

thats because off the eq that is build in in the soundcard

 

[jamesriley94]

We need James Riley on this one....

Heh, as I've said a fair few times around the forum, I'm not a gamer.

I have my DT990s and the STX for listening to music, but of course if I ever do end up playing a game, I will use them.

The quality from a proper soundcard and decent headphones will be better than from a gaming headset in both music listening and games. But, when I say 'better quality', that doesn't mean you'll suddenly be able to hear things you couldn't hear before in games. It means the sounds will be more realistic and immersive.

But, the question here really is, do you need to hear footsteps in marginally better quality? Probably not...

Gaming headsets have high bass levels in order to make footsteps more prominent, this makes it less realistic, but some gamers would probably argue that hearing louder footsteps is better than hearing quieter better quality footsteps.

Anyway, back to the argument - soundcard or no soundcard.

With my DT990s, being 250Ohm headphones, my motherboard would never be able to power them enough to get that realistic experience. However, at the same time, since 90% of soundcards available don't have a dedicated amp built in, they probably wouldn't either. So if the argument is between having a soundcard/amp in order to power high quality headphones, then you're stupid to say you shouldn't since without one, you wouldn't get much out of them at all.

I do however think a lot of people believe soundcards can process the audio at better quality, and that is correct, but tbh, the differences probably aren't so prominent if you're just thinking about the sound processor itself. If you gave me a £40 pair of headphones, and asked me to blind test a decent on-board solution and something like a Xonar DX, I wouldn't be confident saying now I'd be able to say which was which.

But, the point is the better soundcards have higher quality DACs and Amps which you definitely can tell the difference. Give me a £150 pair of headphones, and ask me to say which was an STX and which was on-board (even if it was the highest quality on-board solution around), and I'd be very confident in being able to say which was which.

I only watched about 2 minutes of that video, but doesn't the Mayflower dude make external amps and DACs himself? If so, the DAC would be going through USB/optical and so by-passing any soundcard near enough anyway, so it's pretty obvious he'd be saying the soundcards themselves weren't important, but the DACs/Amps were?

 

[Cru]

I only watched about 2 minutes of that video, but doesn't the Mayflower dude make external amps and DACs himself? If so, the DAC would be going through USB/optical and so by-passing any soundcard near enough anyway, so it's pretty obvious he'd be saying the soundcards themselves weren't important, but the DACs/Amps were?

the video is basically an advertisement for mayflower products

 

[Lazlo]

the video is basically an advertisement for mayflower products

The thing is they say more than once, that an onboard soundcard is often sufficient.
I give you that they do a bit of product placement of the mayflower dac. But the thing it is based on a design available to everyone. You can buy a DIY kit for a 100 bucks I think.

I find this topic highly interesting. The thing is it can get highly ethereal sometimes and sometimes downright stupid. Like digital cables for a couple of hundred bucks for example.

I have to say most of the things said in the vid sound plausible to me. And I have heard similar things from other people.

In the end audio will always be one of the most subjective topics around, because perception of audio is highly subjectiv.

 

[Cru]

The thing is they say more than once, that an onboard soundcard is often sufficient.

they also tear apart any soundcard and don't name any alternatives to mayflower

 

[Sir-Weasel]

i'm and audiophile myself and it's true that it is a promotial video but rightfully so
i've had a lot of audio gear ( and my conclusion is that external is the way to go) and the meaning of my posting this thread is to inform people to get a external dac if they are considering an improvement in there audio setup.

what lazlo says is right

If you have a nice pair of headphones like you jamesriley i think it's worth getting an externale dac/amp but if you have a run of the mill pair of headphones pls don't invest in a soundcard.

they also tear apart any soundcard and don't name any alternatives to mayflower

the fiio line of products is verry budget friendly and are really quiet good.
if you are willing to spend a bit of money my personal favorite is the schiit line of products. but there are lots of options out there just search it on head-fi or ask it to someone on head-fi.

 

[Lazlo]

they also tear apart any soundcard and don't name any alternatives to mayflower

You seem to have missed the part where I wrote that his product is based on a universal available dac design. The ODAC by North West Audio Video guy. It's open source if you will.
So what this guy is selling you is kind of a service. He builds the thing by hand and puts it in a case.
And he even says you don't necessarily need it because onboard can be sufficient.

Now I would be interested to hear counter arguments to the arguments they made in the video instead of saying he just wants to sell his product. Of course he wants to sell his product, which might live up to what they are promising.

By the way I can't see this guy paying Logan a bunch of money to promote the product against better judgement. So if he "puts his neck out" and says something creative, corsair, asus etc. won't be thrilled to hear, that counts for something in my book.

 

[iBeInspire]

Bunch of specs on impedance and whatever, but not enough details on how all products actually SOUND, which is the only thing that matters with sound cards.

The sound card vs DAC argument is a fairly valid one, but even then a DAC is just an external sound card... so the argument is basically internal vs external and they both trade blows in any given price bracket.

My Fiio e10 isn't even a very high end DAC but I can hear a clear difference between it and onboard even when using a crappy £30 gaming headset, same goes for the Xonar DGX (lowest-end model). Throughout the whole video I failed to see a structured argument or any discernible point apart from mindlessly bashing soundcards without even commenting on how they actually sound so I'm pretty sure these guys are just talking utter horsewank.

 

[Dicehunter]

I could hear the difference straigh away between onboard and my xonar phoebus, Music and movies sound a lot les, Less, If that makes sense, And gaming does sound better.
It's not a placebo effect, If onboard was better or on par with the phoebus then I would use it.

 

[maniac]

My Fiio e10 isn't even a very high end DAC but I can hear a clear difference between it and onboard even when using a crappy £30 gaming headset, same goes for the Xonar DGX (lowest-end model). Throughout the whole video I failed to see a structured argument or any discernible point apart from mindlessly bashing soundcards without even commenting on how they actually sound so I'm pretty sure these guys are just talking utter horsewank.

True that, I didn't see any solid argument built. TBH if the argument was that you cannot justify a £200 sound card compared to a £30 sound card, I might agree as I don't really think you can justify £170 for 15% better quality? But an argument of a sound card vs. no sound card, its true for gamers it wont make much of a difference, but I think gamers listen to music too...

 

[Lazlo]

Bunch of specs on impedance and whatever, but not enough details on how all products actually SOUND, which is the only thing that matters with sound cards.

The sound card vs DAC argument is a fairly valid one, but even then a DAC is just an external sound card... so the argument is basically internal vs external and they both trade blows in any given price bracket.

My Fiio e10 isn't even a very high end DAC but I can hear a clear difference between it and onboard even when using a crappy £30 gaming headset, same goes for the Xonar DGX (lowest-end model). Throughout the whole video I failed to see a structured argument or any discernible point apart from mindlessly bashing soundcards without even commenting on how they actually sound so I'm pretty sure these guys are just talking utter horsewank.

I'm sorry but you must have watched a different video than me.

And as stated the only task of a dac, which is commonly found on any sound card or in an external dac, is to convert a signal from digital to analog. And in an ideal world every dac should sound the same. Basically it's a question how clean the dac and the amp work.
Sounding different plays to the EQ argument not the quality argument. Unless you have a crappy piece of kit.

 

[iBeInspire]

I'm sorry but you must have watched a different video than me.

21 minutes, 2 guys, uttery rubbish..?
Pretty sure we watched the same thing

 

[Lazlo]

I guess we have to agree to disagree then.

But I maintain that you still owe more than "all they say is rubbish". It's not very convincing. If instead you would take the arguments, and yes there are arguments, and say what's wrong about them, then you might be able to prove a point.

And you know, by saying you hear a difference, you kind of prove their point.

 

[iBeInspire]

I guess we have to agree to disagree then.

But I maintain that you still owe more than "all they say is rubbish". It's not very convincing. If instead you would take the arguments, and yes there are arguments, and say what's wrong about them, then you might be able to prove a point.

Bunch of specs on impedance and whatever, but not enough details on how all products actually SOUND, which is the only thing that matters with sound cards.

The sound card vs DAC argument is a fairly valid one, but even then a DAC is just an external sound card... so the argument is basically internal vs external and they both trade blows in any given price bracket.

My Fiio e10 isn't even a very high end DAC but I can hear a clear difference between it and onboard even when using a crappy £30 gaming headset, same goes for the Xonar DGX (lowest-end model).

... yeah