We're out out - The Brexit Thread

[shambles1980]

you are saying if scotland had 100% turn out and 100% remain vote and every one else voted out it would be fair for scotland to force every one else to remain??

The way i see it Scotland is its own country. has its own parliament. and pays taxes to the uk. the uk then distributes the money accordingly.
much like other countrys in the eu have their own parliaments and pay to stay in the eu. and the eu then distributes the money accordingly.
the EU chooses not to let them remain. its not as if the eu could not let them stay, again they are a country, and have their own parliament.
its just the EU chooses not to see Scotland as a country. and that is not the Uk's fault.

it kind of makes a mockery out of what its suposed to be about to be honest with you..
its almost as if the EU are saying well as a single country all you are is an extra mouth to feed, so your either in with the entire uk. or your out.

 

[Greenback]

Sorry Greenback but thats a bad statement there.

The EU is thinking highly of those lower down the Food chain, and the UK have assisted funding them. You guys paid for the roads and contruction of Romania a country that could not afford to maintain its own structures.

I would like to know the figures on how much money went to line pockets compared to how much went to building, before I agree my statement is wrong



SeekaX I think there are Germans who want to stop being told they are bad and their nation is bad just because of something that they didn't have no hand in doing

 

[SeekaX]

i think you will find that your claim of general education levels isnt quite correct.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Germany/United-Kingdom/Education

I go to university and i pay ~200€ per semester, the majority of which is for train tickets, before that i went to a technical college, which cost me nothing. Nobody drops out of education here due to debt, that'll result in better education. We also have quite a lot more immigrants which quite often come from countries where education isn't exactly brilliant, so the results on that website are a bit skewed.

SeekaX I think there are Germans who want to stop being told they are bad and their nation is bad just because of something that they didn't have no hand in doing

I take no responsibility for WW2, but that doesn't mean i can't learn a lesson from it. Patriotism is a cancer which hasn't spawned a single good thing is history.

 

[shambles1980]

i am getting mixed messages here..
im reading. we are better educated and so wouldn't vote out of the eu because of that. and we arent patriotic at all which makes us better.. because patriotism is a cancer.
which in its self would imply being rather patriotic, so its kind of a self defeating argument..

But its not really in keeping with the debate at all. so im not really sure whats going on.

 

[SeekaX]

i am getting mixed messages here..
im reading. we are better educated and so wouldn't vote out of the eu because of that. and we arent patriotic at all which makes us better.. because patriotism is a cancer.
which in its self would imply being rather patriotic, so its kind of a self defeating argument..

No that is just a poor interpretation of what i've said. I never claimed that 'we' are better, i claimed that the german education system is better and that WW2 has had more of an impact on the german society than on the victorious countries in regards to patriotism. Nothing in there implies that i take any pride in being german or germans being superior to brits.

 

[shambles1980]

no..
it implies that you are proud that Germany learned that patriotism is bad. which in itself is pride in the country which in turn is patriotism...
its a self defeating argument..

choosing not to fly the German flag and then being proud that your country has decided to do that is in its self self defeating..

but again this is nothing at all to do with the debate at hand. so i will respectfully read any reply you make to this comment then leave the discussion there so we can get back on topic.

p.s
You dont have to believe that you are superior to be patriotic. some people do but that is not necessarily patriotism.

 

[Warchild]

I would like to know the figures on how much money went to line pockets compared to how much went to building, before I agree my statement is wrong

Agriculture represents about 7% of Romanian GDP and employs around 30% of total employment in Romania, but it is mainly subsistence farming. Direct payments from the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) and rural development funds have improved living standards in the countryside. €20 billion of EU structural funding was allocated for the 2007-2013 timeframe and despite a slow start in absorbing them, Romania is beginning to reap the benefits. As of end-2015, the absorption rate was 52.2% - the lowest in the EU. However, in 2013, the European Parliament approved the extension of the deadline to absorb these funds, meaning that the absorption rate for 2007-13 may still increase.

Romania was allocated EUR 22.9 billion for the 2014-2020 round of funding. Absorption will once again be a challenge.

At €29bn, Germany, Europe's largest and most powerful economy, put the most money into the EU pot last year. Poland was the biggest recipient. It received €16.2bn in EU funds in 2013.
Overall, Britain's contribution to the EU pot amounted to €17bn in 2013, behind Germany, France, and Italy.

Still trying to find the other source I had stating that the Majority of the funding was from to Romania was based on the UK's contribution. Once I find it ill put it on here.

But as you say Greenback. I do wonder how much has gone into certain individual pockets.

 

[Greenback]

you are saying if scotland had 100% turn out and 100% remain vote and every one else voted out it would be fair for scotland to force every one else to remain??

The way i see it Scotland is its own country. has its own parliament. and pays taxes to the uk. the uk then distributes the money accordingly.
much like other countrys in the eu have their own parliaments and pay to stay in the eu. and the eu then distributes the money accordingly.
the EU chooses not to let them remain. its not as if the eu could not let them stay, again they are a country, and have their own parliament.
its just the EU chooses not to see Scotland as a country. and that is not the Uk's fault.

it kind of makes a mockery out of what its suposed to be about to be honest with you..
its almost as if the EU are saying well as a single country all you are is an extra mouth to feed, so your either in with the entire uk. or your out.

Scotland may have it's Government but their powers are limited and it didn't really have that until 1997, and in theory the Uk government could take that power away (I say in theory because we would have the Scots invading again). The Eu could not take our Government away. at this time anyway

 

[shambles1980]

Agriculture represents about 7% of Romanian GDP and employs around 30% of total employment in Romania, but it is mainly subsistence farming. Direct payments from the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) and rural development funds have improved living standards in the countryside. €20 billion of EU structural funding was allocated for the 2007-2013 timeframe and despite a slow start in absorbing them, Romania is beginning to reap the benefits. As of end-2015, the absorption rate was 52.2% - the lowest in the EU. However, in 2013, the European Parliament approved the extension of the deadline to absorb these funds, meaning that the absorption rate for 2007-13 may still increase.

Romania was allocated EUR 22.9 billion for the 2014-2020 round of funding. Absorption will once again be a challenge.

At €29bn, Germany, Europe's largest and most powerful economy, put the most money into the EU pot last year. Poland was the biggest recipient. It received €16.2bn in EU funds in 2013.
Overall, Britain's contribution to the EU pot amounted to €17bn in 2013, behind Germany, France, and Italy.

Still trying to find the other source I had stating that the Majority of the funding was from to Romania was based on the UK's contribution. Once I find it ill put it on here.

But as you say Greenback. I do wonder how much has gone into certain individual pockets.

well according to that about 47% went in to pockets.

 

[SeekaX]

no..
it implies that you are proud that Germany learned that patriotism is bad. which in itself is pride in the country which in turn is patriotism...
its a self defeating argument..

choosing not to fly the German flag and then being proud that your country has decided to do that is in its self self defeating..

but again this is nothing at all to do with the debate at hand. so i will respectfully read any reply you make to this comment then leave the discussion there so we can get back on topic.

That is once again your interpretation of what i've said. Germany lost a war it started due to patriotism and suffered the consequences, e.g. poor living conditions and repayments to the victors. Hence the amount of people in germany who learned that lesson is higher than that in the victorious countries, punishment tends to change people's minds, it's not some special achievement specific to germany, the same would have happened in any other country in a similar situation.
You are implying that i am proud of my country for not flying the flag while i feel no connection to my country in the first place, that is a selfdefeating argument.

 

[Warchild]

well according to that about 47% went in to pockets.

Now you are just insinuating. There is no where it says its gone to someones pockets. that is not what Absorbtion rate means

 

[Greenback]

But as you say Greenback. I do wonder how much has gone into certain individual pockets.

The problem with the EU is it's size and the amount of committees/sub-committees so much done behind closed doors that even people that are elected to be there don't know exactly what's going on.
How much of whats paid to the EU is paid in wages for needless jobs that 6 other departments are involved in, How much is claimed for expenses that really aren't, My mate David is going to need a job can we setup a new department.

I'd wonder if a good Accountant went in there who hasn't got his fingers in the pie, how much of that money has vanished into the void

 

[Warchild]

The problem with the EU is it's size and the amount of committees/sub-committees so much done behind closed doors that even people that are elected to be there don't know exactly what's going on.
How much of whats paid to the EU is paid in wages for needless jobs that 6 other departments are involved in, How much is claimed for expenses that really aren't, My mate David is going to need a job can we setup a new department.

I'd wonder if a good Accountant went in there who hasn't got his fingers in the pie, how much of that money has vanished into the void

I wish the nations rallied together and brought the EU down a peg or two. But I still think that having a European Union is a great idea. The problem is as years go by, you seek to improve things, and eventually you have lost your way.

 

[Greenback]

I wish the nations rallied together and brought the EU down a peg or two. But I still think that having a European Union is a great idea. The problem is as years go by, you seek to improve things, and eventually you have lost your way.

Though i voted to leave, I have had the discussion of the EU with my father in-law, and i have pointed to the problem with the EU is that it is limited in power, (puts flame proof clothes on) If they had total control over every members budget, every member had the same rules and benefits basically they would govern the complete union, so every thing I could get in the Uk was the same in France or Germany if i buy something it's the same price everywhere else, if jobs are limited over the EU than no point me going to x country because what I could claim there would be exactly what I get here. If the USA want a trade deal they have to go through the EU no separate trade deals.

Now the down side Power corrupts Absolute power corrupts absolutely, Norway you don't want to join our union I have this big army that says otherwise, or well go sale all your good else where, and once the whole of Europe what about Russia or the middle east

 

[Dicehunter]

On my way back from shopping this morning I had to interrupt a couple that were talking about immigration and Brexit, They thought all the immigration would stop, So so wrong.

Most of the immigration which is around 300,000 people per year all looking to get money in the form of benefits and a few in the form of work come from outside the EU, Mostly the common wealth which includes a lot of poor countries in Africa, Pakistan, Various middle eastern countries, All of which are outside of the EU.

They didn't know this and it seems many that voted leave didn't know this

 

[Greenback]

On my way back from shopping this morning I had to interrupt a couple that were talking about immigration and Brexit, They thought all the immigration would stop, So so wrong.

Most of the immigration which is around 300,000 people per year all looking to get money in the form of benefits and a few in the form of work come from outside the EU, Mostly the common wealth which includes a lot of poor countries in Africa, Pakistan, Various middle eastern countries, All of which are outside of the EU.

They didn't know this and it seems many that voted leave didn't know this

Being allowed to change our benefit system was part of the deal if we remained but only for a short period of time, then we'd have to get the EU permission to keep the changes for a longer time. Though what we would have to give for that is anyones guess

 

[Warchild]

Being allowed to change our benefit system was part of the deal if we remained but only for a short period of time, then we'd have to get the EU permission to keep the changes for a longer time. Though what we would have to give for that is anyones guess

EU has one goal in mind. Freedom of movement. If UK want to cut a deal I can guarantee that freedom of movement will be at the top of the list in terms of the cost of cutting the deal.

 

[shambles1980]

and that is why no deal will be reached and we will just trade with individual country at a better tariff.
if any one negotiated any deal which included freedom of moment then they just set up the same situation as being in the EU with none of the benefits and all of the things that the people voted against.

The uk can manage just fine with no deal with the eu at all..
i dont think the eu is able to say the same thing.

 

[Greenback]

EU has one goal in mind. Freedom of movement. If UK want to cut a deal I can guarantee that freedom of movement will be at the top of the list in terms of the cost of cutting the deal.

I get the feeling that those negotiating will get us a crap deal just to punish us for not doing what we were told. or in five years we will still be in the EU, another referendum with what the uncertainty has done to the £ because no leader with a backbone, they can say look what has happened so far if we leave it will be worse now vote like you should of done the first time

 

[Warchild]

and that is why no deal will be reached and we will just trade with individual country at a better tariff.
if any one negotiated any deal which included freedom of moment then they just set up the same situation as being in the EU with none of the benefits and all of the things that the people voted against.

The uk can manage just fine with no deal with the eu at all..
i dont think the eu is able to say the same thing.

I'd love to agree but I'm not so sure that UK would fair well. At least not for a decade. Yes individual deals would be the way to go but getting those deals would take a very long time, during that time companies will suffer and struggle. Norway has oil cash supplies to save it. Swiss have their own valuable commodities. What does the UK have to keep it afloat during hardship? That lack of value is the fault of the UK government and their cowardly need to keep places like China happy.

Cut my reply shorter because Greenback quoted exactly what I was going to state.