We're out out - The Brexit Thread

[shambles1980]

I'll leave this here.

Can't find the original on youtube so fudbook will have to do!

if we are doing F book vids lol..
I added this one last night. Poor man was cut off because they wanted to talk about borris being an idiot, but thats the bbc for you.

https://www.facebook.com/garry.roberts.90/videos/1375878325772248/

 

[Warchild]

I think one of the worst things though considering democracy and all that, is Scotland being pulled out of the EU against their will. Surely they should have a right to stay?

 

[shambles1980]

yes.. but thats the eu's choice not ours..

 

[Warchild]

yes.. but thats the eu's choice not ours..

But it's not. It is the UK that is fully recognised as a member of the EU. So basically we join or leave as one package. That's not eu ruling. That is just the way our nation is. It's called United Kingdom for a reason. Although these days we might as call it "little britain" since we are so divided now.

I do hope all nations get what they want.

 

[Greenback]

But it's not. It is the UK that is fully recognised as a member of the EU. So basically we join or leave as one package. That's not eu ruling. That is just the way our nation is. It's called United Kingdom for a reason. Although these days we might as call it "little britain" since we are so divided now.

I do hope all nations get what they want.

I think it's actually Spain stopping them, they want a separate Scotland b4 making a deal, thus a weaker Scotland with no other choice but to say yes Mr EU we agree to be bent over backwards

See even boris doesn't want to be the one to push the button

 

[shambles1980]

well saying the uk is one country and so 1 in all in or 1 out all out is the same as saying continental Europe is 1 country so 1 in all in or 1 out all out..
it seems rather a strange thing to say in the situation.

 

[Greenback]

As far as I'm getting from talks she has given, she wants to stay in the EU with the same deals as the UK has now, and all this before she goes for independence from the UK, when she's asked about the Euro she dismisses it with "I can't see that" and also when asked about leaving and joining the queue to join "it's i'm not talking about leaving something,it's about staying" she doesn't seem to have a what if plan. Seems politicians aren't good at what if plans

 

[shambles1980]

sounds like germany are asking for a referendum now too...

i dont think id much want to be in the eu if they also left.

 

[SeekaX]

sounds like germany are asking for a referendum now too...

i dont think id much want to be in the eu if they also left.

That is fairly unlikely to happen, it's just a loud minority and i hope our government has enough strength to not be lead by the opinion of the emotional and the naive. Merkel can afford to burn some bridges, there is no party which opposes the EU and gets competitive voting results and those who oppose the EU would never support her anyways.

 

[shambles1980]

sounds rather undemocratic not to allow the people to vote on the choice.
and if it is just a vocal minority then they would vote to remain...
Although im pretty sure that is what the uk thought was the case too, then they found out it was the majority and they voted out.
I guess because of that its safer not to allow a referendum, although if i understand german law, then you cant just call a referendum any way, not unless there are reforms to be made to the country. but those are post war laws and never took a outside influence like the eu in to account.

 

[SeekaX]

sounds rather undemocratic not to allow the people to vote on the choice.
and if it is just a vocal minority then they would vote to remain...
Although im pretty sure that is what the uk thought was the case too, then they found out it was the majority and they voted out.
I guess because of that its safer not to allow a referendum, although if i understand german law, then you cant just call a referendum any way, not unless there are reforms to be made to the country. but those are post war laws and never took a outside influence like the eu in to account.

If you would call a referendum every time a group of people call for one we'd be running to vote 3x a day. It's definitely not undemocratic either since the government is elected by and hence represents the people, the whole point of having a government is to have a group of elected specialists make decisions on our behalf to filter out the emotional and shortsighted aspect a direct democracy has. If people have a problem with the EU they can vote for the AfD next election.

 

[Warchild]

well saying the uk is one country and so 1 in all in or 1 out all out is the same as saying continental Europe is 1 country so 1 in all in or 1 out all out..
it seems rather a strange thing to say in the situation.

The UK is a Sovereign State not a country. That is why you cannot say its the same as continental Europe. Represented by one centralised Government.

 

[Greenback]

That is fairly unlikely to happen, it's just a loud minority and i hope our government has enough strength to not be lead by the opinion of the emotional and the naive. Merkel can afford to burn some bridges, there is no party which opposes the EU and gets competitive voting results and those who oppose the EU would never support her anyways.

Not going to knock what you know about your country, but that's probably exactly the attitude of Camoron and those remainders who didn't bother to vote, ah it's only a few that don't like the EU, Obviously that was right if all he spoke to were those in London.
Now if Germany did have a referendum I don't think those that wanted to stay would be so blase about voting, but if enough did vote to leave it could give the EU a kick they need to stop thinking of the rich and look at those lower down the food chain, I even think what happened here gave them a shock

 

[shambles1980]

The UK is a Sovereign State not a country. That is why you cannot say its the same as continental Europe. Represented by one centralised Government.

then what is the eu if not exactly that?

 

[SeekaX]

Not going to knock what you know about your country, but that's probably exactly the attitude of Camoron and those remainders who didn't bother to vote, ah it's only a few that don't like the EU, Obviously that was right if all he spoke to were those in London.
Now if Germany did have a referendum I don't think those that wanted to stay would be so blase about voting, but if enough did vote to leave it could give the EU a kick they need to stop thinking of the rich and look at those lower down the food chain, I even think what happened here gave them a shock

Generally national pride and identity is far less spread in germany, partly because of WW2 and also because the general level of education is higher.
The EU needs to think of those lower down the foodchain? The EU is thinking of those lower down the foodchain, your own government isn't, you are just shifting the blame.

 

[Warchild]

then what is the eu if not exactly that?

A political Economic Union

 

[shambles1980]

A political Economic Union

represented by one centralized goverment.

Generally national pride and identity is far less spread in germany, partly because of WW2 and also because the general level of education is higher.
The EU needs to think of those lower down the foodchain? The EU is thinking of those lower down the foodchain, your own government isn't, you are just shifting the blame.

i think you will find that your claim of general education levels isnt quite correct.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Germany/United-Kingdom/Education

 

[Warchild]

Not going to knock what you know about your country, but that's probably exactly the attitude of Camoron and those remainders who didn't bother to vote, ah it's only a few that don't like the EU, Obviously that was right if all he spoke to were those in London.
Now if Germany did have a referendum I don't think those that wanted to stay would be so blase about voting, but if enough did vote to leave it could give the EU a kick they need to stop thinking of the rich and look at those lower down the food chain, I even think what happened here gave them a shock

Sorry Greenback but thats a bad statement there.

The EU is thinking highly of those lower down the Food chain, and the UK have assisted funding them. You guys paid for the roads and contruction of Romania a country that could not afford to maintain its own structures.

 

[shambles1980]

I will always admit that if i was ever able to take charge of the world, i would set up something similar to the EU.
in principal its a good idea. make every one help every one else, pool all the funds in one place and distribute it accordingly to help the world as a whole, But unfortunately due to how capitalism works, the only way you can do that is to force people to do it..
And that is where the problem is.
also there is the fact that being a good idea in principal does not always end up being a good idea in practice, I mean communism in principal is a good idea 2.


it is also rather an issue when instead of raising the conditions and living standards of the ones who needed the help up to your level, you actually start dragging the ones that were doing well down. when that happens people eventually decide "we tried but this is not working"

 

[Warchild]

represented by one centralized goverment.

But.. its not a sovereign state!

Sovereign states can voluntarily delegate some or even all of their powers to either smaller areas (devolution and local government)

Looking at UK structure
EU governing body > UK governing body > 4 nations under the UK government - if one of these nations wants to stay, tough luck on them.

Looking at Europe as a whole
EU governing body > Country governing body > One nation under the countries government. - if these guys want to leave fine they vote out

So you are saying its fair for 3 nations to tear away one nation from the EU against their will? Even if Scotland had 100% turn out and 100% voted remain, but the result was to vote out due to 3 other nations. How is that just.

What I think should be done is that the EU does lose some of their power and has less ruling on the EU nations.

But all this talk about EU government not voted into power. How can you even vote for candidates? that would mean candidate X campaigning in every EU country? How can nations all vote for these candidates. It is just not feasible. It would be great in an ideal world, but it just cant be done.

I think the EU could return to its greatness if they dropped the Euro currency. It was a disaster. The Franc used to be a strong currency once. Would love to see that return.