GTX 970 3,5GB + 0,5GB with 56 ROP and less cache than advertised.

[Warchild]

What settings did you use for SoM?

I think its not an overreaction. Nvidia should not get away with lying. If it was AMD there would be a public uproar. Why not Nvidia?

First used default settings for 970. Then ensured same were used on my 780. Then I cranked everything up which obviously will tax the card and doesn't really help prove anything towards this memory business.

970 consumers have a right to get angry. Dont get me wrong there. They also have a right to get a refund as the card isn't as advertised, but what I think is getting out of control is so many people complaining their games FPS tanks etc when they are using settings slightly out of the capability of the card to maintain good FPS. Now im saying "Many people" in general terms, as people are popping out from everywhere around the world saying they have issues with blah blah on their 970 (some using low specced CPU etc) or 1080p games that don't even reach 3.5gb.

It almost feels like a placebo effect. People begin to see issues that aren't there for their setup.

It's a real nightmare to prove. I'm not defending Nvidia in anyway. But for me, I buy cards based on performance. Cards can be specced lower and still perform better than others. The way the last chunks of DRAM is controlled is impressive regardless. What is the point of TTL reviewing cards if we ignore those figures and buy a card because it has more ROPs than another. Or high clock even though a worse performer.

All I can hope is Nvidia either get a huge fine or admit defeat and allow a step up program to the 980 or even openly allow refunds. A massive recall would affect everyone in the PC market in general. Stock prices would fall hard and might even bump up other components in cost.

 

[JR23]

many german resellers are already taking back 970s only because of that...

and out of 250 people with a 970
94 said they will definitly get a refund
42 said they are thinking about it
65 said they will keep their card
and 49 said they will wait a bit
Source: http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1440835 (watch out its german)
Its interesting to see that so many would actually get a refund

But what are these people going to replace their 970 with

This is going to do weird things to the market no matter what action nVidia take. It could result in huge AMD market gain but I think people will be rather surprised by the noise and power consumption if they go to a 290/290X from a 970. Plus there aren't even many out there to buy right now.

JR

 

[steverebo]

I wouldn't want to be the nvidia CEO right now, their shareholders are gonna be throwing their toys out of their prams.

If they don't respond to AMD's capitalization of this it will damage thier rep for years to come and AMD will remind them at every launch of this huge failure and lack of response to their customers.

 

[SieB]

We need to see some proper testing that can prove it, until we can prove outright that performance is affected then there is no point in grabbing the pitchforks because Nvidia can just deny everything.

The difference in specs alone isn't enough for them to do anything, because last week before people knew about this there was nothing but praise for the 970s. Nothing has changed performance wise from last week up until today, with no complaints about performance. Which can be used as part of Nvidia's defense unless proof can be shown that there is an issue with performance.

Alot of the games that people are getting stuttering in are also games that many people have stuttering in using AMD and Nvidia cards other than the 970. To do proper testing we need a game that has no no know issues on any other card, that can max out the Vram and used to prove that performance is affected when hitting the 500MB section.

Lets not forget that Nvidia is also working on a driver and if there is a performance problem, it may fix it. So lets at least wait till that is released before jumping the gun.

And i'm in no way defending Nvidia for anything, i'm just thinking about it logically rather than grabbing the pitchfork and chasing Nvidia down the street with it.
Until there is solid evidence to show what is happening and how much of problem it is we can't do anything.

 

[barnsley]

But what are these people going to replace their 970 with

This is going to do weird things to the market no matter what action nVidia take. It could result in huge AMD market gain but I think people will be rather surprised by the noise and power consumption if they go to a 290/290X from a 970. Plus there aren't even many out there to buy right now.

JR

If they're replacing their cheap 970 with something like a Powercolor PCS+ it'll be quieter. Power wise most people always seem to overspec their PSU anyway.

Regardless AMD won't benefit from it that much straight away IMO. They've announced they'll be updating their GPU lineup in may-july.

 

[Warchild]

But is it a "huge" failure.

Nvidia stock fell my 0.32$ in the last day, but has risen by 0.1 in the last hour. Shareholders aren't bothered too much yet. They definately need to cover their ass and defend/counter AMD at the moment. But their sales of the 970 were a huge success so this miscommunication which they use as a bad excuse is minor to them at the moment.

They are responding to media, but for some reason they only seem to respond to U.S media and don't comment on any questions or accusations outside of the country :S

 

[Doomslayer]

But is it a "huge" failure.

Nvidia stock fell my 0.32$ in the last day, but has risen by 0.1 in the last hour. Shareholders aren't bothered too much yet. They definately need to cover their ass and defend/counter AMD at the moment. But their sales of the 970 were a huge success so this miscommunication which they use as a bad excuse is minor to them at the moment.

They are responding to media, but for some reason they only seem to respond to U.S media and don't comment on any questions or accusations outside of the country :S

And i bet there using "Spin" too

 

[steverebo]

if this isn't such a big issue then why are a large number of retailers giving refunds and nvidia reps on their own forum saying they will help people get refunds???

 

[Warchild]

if this isn't such a big issue then why are a large number of retailers giving refunds and nvidia reps on their own forum saying they will help people get refunds???

Because they will just resell the cards I guess

I checked my local store. They will also redfund, but none have been returned yet.

 

[Doomslayer]

Because they will just resell the cards I guess

I checked my local store. They will also redfund, but none have been returned yet.

I will check with the store who i brought it from, but i have a feeling that PC shops in australia that might not allow returns.

 

[SieB]

if this isn't such a big issue then why are a large number of retailers giving refunds and nvidia reps on their own forum saying they will help people get refunds???

But think about it like this, if it is such a big problem how come a week ago it wasn't but today it is? Nothing has change performance wise from this time last week up until today. The 970 is still the same 970 and nothing has changed.

The reason retailers are giving refunds is to cover their own backs and as far as i'm aware they are only refunding people who are within their return period.
Also, the Nvidia reps words are being taken out of context. He says that if people feel like they they are disappointed that they should get a refund, he doesn't say that Nvidia are telling you to get a refund as part of an official statement, just that if you can get a refund and feel the need to then to do it.

Yes Nvidia lied and shouldn't have and I hope they get as much shit as possible over it.
But we need to prove that there is a problem with performance, without proof that there is then nothing can be done because we don't have anything to use against them other than a difference in specs. Which doesn't really mean anything on its own because performance is the same as it was before people knew about it.

 

[Warchild]

I will check with the store who i brought it from, but i have a feeling that PC shops in australia that might not allow returns.

Retailers have a right not to refund. As they were misinformed also, they can probably refuse and tell you take it up with Nvidia. Which is why the Nvidia rep stated if there were difficulties to contact him and he would take it further i guess.

It is going to be tough though. GPU brands will not want anything to do with this. Refunds to retailers will go back to the supplier which in most cases is not the GPU brands themselves. As the cards are not faulty I guess you can be declined.

End of the day that card is performing as expected. Performing as it was in the reviews, and also no reviewers who are way more technology girfted than us, spotted this or showed any bad impact on gaming.

 

[Doomslayer]

Retailers have a right not to refund. As they were misinformed also, they can probably refuse and tell you take it up with Nvidia. Which is why the Nvidia rep stated if there were difficulties to contact him and he would take it further i guess.

It is going to be tough though. GPU brands will not want anything to do with this. Refunds to retailers will go back to the supplier which in most cases is not the GPU brands themselves. As the cards are not faulty I guess you can be declined.

The PC shops in this country will not take returns unless Nvidia tells them too i guess, that is why i said before more than likely here they will not take them back

 

[Warchild]

The PC shops in this country will not take returns unless Nvidia tells them too i guess, that is why i said before more than likely here they will not take them back

I would suggest you stick with your cards for now. Are you truly unhappy with the performance or just that you were somewhat misled?

 

[Doomslayer]

I would suggest you stick with your cards for now. Are you truly unhappy with the performance or just that you were somewhat misled?

TBH Bit of both, but i did do a downgrade i did have a 780

 

[SieB]

EVGA offering returns from OCUK with the option of upgrading to the 980 (at cost) through them directly.

 

[Doomslayer]

EVGA offering returns from OCUK with the option of upgrading to the 980 (at cost) through them directly.

Nice, Props to EVGA

 

[steverebo]

Well the specs being advertised wrong since launch is a huge issue in the uk/eu as it breaches a number of European trading laws Which leaves nvidia and the manufacturers in a position of weakness as they can argue all they like about performance being the same as reviewers say (although reviews would not be recognised as anything official and counted as hearsay).

The card was advertised with a certain spec with a memory bandwidth, rop's and vram of which most are on the box.

This information is incorrect and despite 5 months of media publication a huge sales this information was not corrected till questioned by the consumer.

Outside of the civil law world for the likes of you and me doing the same thing it would be a criminal offence under the fraud act 2006 namely fraud by false representation:

●making a representation that something is one thing when in fact it's another.
●by making this representation you make a gain for yourself or another.
●cause another to make a loss or expose another to the risk of loss.

CUDO's EVGA let's hope the other manufacturers follow suit

 

[Doomslayer]

Well the specs being advertised wrong since launch is a huge issue in the uk/eu as it breaches a number of European trading laws Which leaves nvidia and the manufacturers in a position of weakness as they can argue all they like about performance being the same as reviewers say (although reviews would not be recognised as anything official and counted as hearsay).

The card was advertised with a certain spec with a memory bandwidth, rop's and vram of which most are on the box.

This information is incorrect and despite 5 months of media publication a huge sales this information was not corrected till questioned by the consumer.

Outside of the civil law world for the likes of you and me doing the same thing it would be a criminal offence under the fraud act 2006 namely fraud by false representation:

●making a representation that something is one thing when in fact it's another.
●by making this representation you make a gain for yourself or another.
●cause another to make a loss or expose another to the risk of loss.

CUDO's EVGA let's hope the other manufacturers follow suit

I have no idea on what the laws are here for this type of stuff :lol:

 

[barnsley]

If a bunch of 970s show up cheap on OCUK's B-grade page I might upgrade if I'm honest... SLI 970s would be great. Then again, I'd be risking even more Coil whine.