GTX 580 pics

[alienware]

But that begs the question - why the heck haven't THEY made a dual cored card?

I just don't get it. They're not covering all sectors of the market they're just dribbling out cards that are good here and there. When ATI launched the 5 series they did so with serious gusto. There were loads of different cards that catered to pretty much everyone who fancied a look at DX11 (not that there was much to see really).

Yet Nvidia released three that in their stock guise weren't very good. Then they released an absolute stonker of a card (the 460) and now they're aiming for the top again. The 450 and the others below it.. Well, in gaming the less said about those the better really.

It just all seems to be really scattered, sparse and messy. The cooler may well be good for a blower cooler. However, that isn't saying much. It's been a long term philosophy on these big cards that in order to keep them working they need to remain below 80c. And it can't seem to do that.

I also have a feeling that this card is going to cost close to or even over £500. 85c on a card that costs £500 is not good enough. For £500 I would want, nay expect, a dual fan solution that keeps it around 70c under full load (see the MSI lightning). Fact is that the Lightning costs £415 and with the cooling and components will probably outdo a 580 costing (I reakon) a lot more.

The 580 is nothing but a rebranded 480 with an ever so slightly better cooler on it and some more of what it already had unlocked. But it's still a poor cooler. If the card is loading @ 85c that doesn't really leave any headroom for overclocking. Not unless you want to push it to 95c+. Meaning you then need to wait for a good cooler to come out and spend loads more.

Thing is if we weren't expecting high end ATI cards that will likely run 15-20c cooler on load and offer the same performance then fine, I could accept the cooler and the temps.

Honestly man, 85c day to day just isn't acceptable anymore.

 

[SnW]

Honestly man, 85c day to day just isn't acceptable anymore.

Sorry to just pick out this line but for the freaking world , WHY not

because you say so, because it heats up your home to much, because Well i don't know anymore...

some GPU's hit 99c just fine and run 24/7 F@H fine, i dont see the issue here

 

[Lorem-Ipsum]

Well its been released at aria this very minute @ £399.99 inc. VAT.

Nice guess XD.

 

[Bungral]

You do crack me up....

Your vendetta against the blower cooler even when it performs well... How isn't 85 degrees at extreme full load acceptable when the vast majority of the time it'll get nowhere near that idling in at around 45 degrees. Oh yeah, with regards to "it's been a long term philosophy on these big cards that in order to keep them working they need to remain below 80c".. Whose long term philosophy? These components are built to withstand these temperatures and more on top.

Yes their release strategy could be better, but I'm not talking about the whole range and neither were you so it's a moot point. We were talking about this card.

"The 580 is nothing but a rebranded 480 with an ever so slightly better cooler on it and some more of what it already had unlocked. But it's still a poor cooler." Well this is just untrue also... It isn't a rebranded 480. Granted it uses the same Fermi architecture and is based on the same core but from what I've read they have added extra power management as well as lower the transister count by removing some relating to GPGPU to bring down the TDP but increase the PPW for gaming by enabling the extra cluster. So an extra 15% - 20% performance, lower power consumption and much lower temps for about £40 more than the 480.

Also it has been released and is listed at as low as £389 over at Aria so a fair bit less than £500 and also cheaper than the 5970.

With regards to Cayman, there are rumours that it is going to be pretty power hungry itself and also kick out some heat at full load as well it should. If you're going to call the 580 a rebrand then you should also be calling the 6970 a rebrand just on your basis that it's based on the same architecture.

But that begs the question - why the heck haven't THEY made a dual cored card?

I just don't get it. They're not covering all sectors of the market they're just dribbling out cards that are good here and there. When ATI launched the 5 series they did so with serious gusto. There were loads of different cards that catered to pretty much everyone who fancied a look at DX11 (not that there was much to see really).

Yet Nvidia released three that in their stock guise weren't very good. Then they released an absolute stonker of a card (the 460) and now they're aiming for the top again. The 450 and the others below it.. Well, in gaming the less said about those the better really.

It just all seems to be really scattered, sparse and messy. The cooler may well be good for a blower cooler. However, that isn't saying much. It's been a long term philosophy on these big cards that in order to keep them working they need to remain below 80c. And it can't seem to do that.

I also have a feeling that this card is going to cost close to or even over £500. 85c on a card that costs £500 is not good enough. For £500 I would want, nay expect, a dual fan solution that keeps it around 70c under full load (see the MSI lightning). Fact is that the Lightning costs £415 and with the cooling and components will probably outdo a 580 costing (I reakon) a lot more.

The 580 is nothing but a rebranded 480 with an ever so slightly better cooler on it and some more of what it already had unlocked. But it's still a poor cooler. If the card is loading @ 85c that doesn't really leave any headroom for overclocking. Not unless you want to push it to 95c+. Meaning you then need to wait for a good cooler to come out and spend loads more.

Thing is if we weren't expecting high end ATI cards that will likely run 15-20c cooler on load and offer the same performance then fine, I could accept the cooler and the temps.

Honestly man, 85c day to day just isn't acceptable anymore.

 

[alienware]

Sorry to just pick out this line but for the freaking world , WHY not

because you say so, because it heats up your home to much, because Well i don't know anymore...

some GPU's hit 99c just fine and run 24/7 F@H fine, i dont see the issue here

Why not? because ATI have proven that temps can be far lower than that, that's why.

It's as simple as that. No one wants a storage heater in their PC. It's also been proven time and time again that if any GPU stays under 80c it is far more likely to last a lot longer. Anything over that and the ICs begin to feel the strain. The PCB gets hotter meaning more expanding and contracting meaning more damage in the long term.

That's what I'm talking about here. The long term. But then maybe I'm the only stupid idiot here that you know? expects a lump of plastic and silicon to last as long as the price you spend should expect.

IE - if I was a daft pillock who was going to drop £400-£500 on a GPU I would want YEARS out of it. Not two or three like the 8800 GTX/Ultra but more.

I guess none of this would matter to some one who can toss around that kind of money but that's my opinion on it.

 

[alienware]

You do crack me up....

Your vendetta against the blower cooler even when it performs well... How isn't 85 degrees at extreme full load acceptable when the vast majority of the time it'll get nowhere near that idling in at around 45 degrees. Oh yeah, with regards to "it's been a long term philosophy on these big cards that in order to keep them working they need to remain below 80c".. Whose long term philosophy? These components are built to withstand these temperatures and more on top.

Here's your answer.

http://forum.overclock3d.net/index.php?/topic/30586-oc3d-exclusive-review-msi-gtx480-lightning/

"Ahhh but the GTX480 is a grill" I can hear you all saying. Maybe in reference trim, but that Twin Frozr III isn't just a pretty face.

With the fans at 50% and FurMark set to 1920x1200, 8xAA and all the candy turned on the Lightning, when at stock, didn't top 64°C. Let's repeat that.

At stock, under major loading, the MSI N480GTX Lightning is only just hotter than the reference GTX480 at idle.

Overclocking performance follows a similar pattern to the reference with the fans needing to be run at 80% to keep the card under control. Here however is the major difference.

The reference card just about kept under 100°C at 90% fans and was louder than Heathrow on a busy summers afternoon.

The Twin Frozr III at 80% keeps the card at 78°C and is comprehensively quieter than the reference design. It's SOOO quiet.

We'll definitely have something to say about this in our conclusion, but it's time for testing.

That's why it's not acceptable. Because if MSI can do it then Nvidia should be doing it. Especially for the money they are asking for it.

Is that too much to ask?

 

[Bungral]

How is that an answer to my question of whose long term philosophy it is that these days in order to keep a gfx card working they need to remain below 80 degrees?

It's perfectly acceptable... If you want to overclock it then it will get hotter, that's just the way it is. They have cooled it to perfectly reasonable levels for the clocks they are selling the cards at and with how they expect the cards to be used.

If we go ahead and overclock the cards, then that is down to us and we have to deal with the heat. If an AIB partner wants to sell factory overclocked models, then it is down to them to offer a cooler that will dissipate the extra heat generated the same way it is down to them that if they want to sell a card on the premise of having extra overclocking headroom, they will also have to sell it with a cooler that can support these claims.

 

[tinytomlogan]

The 480 was rushed, lets leave it at that. But they have put the 580 on a diet to get the temps down aswell as a better cooler.

Youll all see tomorrow

 

[alienware]

How is that an answer to my question of whose long term philosophy it is that these days in order to keep a gfx card working they need to remain below 80 degrees?

It's perfectly acceptable... If you want to overclock it then it will get hotter, that's just the way it is. They have cooled it to perfectly reasonable levels for the clocks they are selling the cards at and with how they expect the cards to be used.

If we go ahead and overclock the cards, then that is down to us and we have to deal with the heat. If an AIB partner wants to sell factory overclocked models, then it is down to them to offer a cooler that will dissipate the extra heat generated the same way it is down to them that if they want to sell a card on the premise of having extra overclocking headroom, they will also have to sell it with a cooler that can support these claims.

I guess it comes down to what you deem as acceptable. I would strongly imagine Nvidia thought 100c+ was acceptable for the 480 as they released it. However they got slated for it. If the 580 was the 480 when the 480 released it would have been compared to what ATI were making. And those cards were cooler.

I think a lot of people are being blindsided by the fact that yes, it is far cooler than a 480. However, it's not as cool as a high end 5 series Radeon. If there were no comparissons to be made then fine. I guess 85c would be acceptable.

The problem is not caused by the components they have designed. Those can be upgraded and changed. Fiberglass PCBS however? well, AFAIK they haven't really changed. I've also seen many more cases of Nvidia cards having to go into the oven (and more actual failures of cards I have owned for that matter) than ATI. And that would probably be because the Nvidia cards run hotter.

I do agree with you that yes, the 580 runs at far better temps than the stock 480. But, my point is if MSI can make a 480 run that cool why can't Nvidia make a 580 that runs that cool?

It's not like they don't have the money is it?

Oh.As for the philosophy? mine. I know a bloody lot about electronics.

The 480 was rushed, lets leave it at that. But they have put the 580 on a diet to get the temps down aswell as a better cooler.

Youll all see tomorrow

Already seen it mate. Their answer to stopping the card getting too hot in Furmark? put in hardware that stops it happening. That's not addressing the problem IMO.

And it's still very hard to forget that a 580 is basically a jiggled around 480.

 

[Bungral]

Are you forgetting the horrible horrible beast that ATI brought out?? The 4870X2 which is still probably the most power guzzling, noisiest heat crapper ever produced? I can definitely confirm this as it's still sitting in my rig and is my second one.

It's cooler at idle and load the 5970 while using pretty much the same power but is 8dbA quieter at full load which is nearly half the volume. It is quieter than all of the 5 series down to the 5850 but it totally annihilates that card.

Ok so it's your philosophy that you said as if it's an accepted industry opinion that these big cards need to be below 80c to keep them working.

I'm not going to question your knowledge on electronics, I mean I'm a pro with a toaster but I think I'll leave it to the scientists at the multi billion £ companies to work that out.

 

[tinytomlogan]

Wheres Rasta when you need him, this thread would be 50pages long in no time

 

[Bungral]

Wheres Rasta when you need him, this thread would be 50pages long in no time

Ha ha true.. Saw him creep in the other thread briefly.

Wonder where he's been hiding. Needs to get back posting.

I mean I'm no fan of either party and Nvidia did bugger up the 480 a bit but it just seems like people want to blast them for this card when on first appearance it looks like they have resolved all the issues that they were getting slated for while also raising the performance. Pretty good skills considering it isn't new architecture.

Yes it is what the 480 should have been like, but that is so easy to say. Fact is it wasn't like that because they simply couldn't do it and they couldn't afford not to put a card on the market.

 

[alienware]

Are you forgetting the horrible horrible beast that ATI brought out?? The 4870X2 which is still probably the most power guzzling, noisiest heat crapper ever produced? I can definitely confirm this as it's still sitting in my rig and is my second one.

No I'm not. But that was two years ago. That was compared to a 280GTX which at that time was also way too hot. The 285 was what the 280 should have been. Beginning to see the pattern here? And yes, I completely agree. The 4870x2 was way too hot and used way too much power.

The 580 is what the 480 should have been. Of course it is, it's a rebrand. That means IMO it should cost less than it does and run cooler than it does. You're right of course, compared to 107c 85c could be considered acceptable. Again it seems they are leaving the cooling to the small fry.

Am I being critical? absolutely yes I am. Was every one critical when the 480 released? absolutely yes they were. It's no different. On a card that costs what that does it should be better and cooler. As I said though please don't confuse this with being anything more than my opinion. That's all it is. But then I'm very hard to please and when I see something costing £400+ I expect far better than it usually delivers.

It's cooler at idle and load the 5970 while using pretty much the same power but is 8dbA quieter at full load which is nearly half the volume. It is quieter than all of the 5 series down to the 5850 but it totally annihilates that card.

The 5970 is close to being a year old now. And it's still faster. That reason is obviously because it has 2 cores and not one and again the cooling could be better. We know that now as Arctic have proven it can be way lower than ATI managed to make it. Looking at the Playstation 2 6970 it seems that they haven't realised cards can be cooled better either. So, I will likely be just as critical of the 6970 when that releases considering it uses a leaf blower to cool the card. I am expecting bigger, faster and cooler than a 5970. Why? because that's how it should be and the direction we should be heading in.

Ok so it's your philosophy that you said as if it's an accepted industry opinion that these big cards need to be below 80c to keep them working.

I didn't say any such thing. As I said I know an awful lot about electronics. I should, I used to make them. It's also (seemingly) an accepted philosophy that Intel I5/I7 should be kept under a certain temperature when overclocked. Is this an industry accepted opinion? of course not. Intel and AMD don't encourage overclocking. If they did they would need to warranty it. It's just an oberservation and a conclusion that people come to. My opinion on it is based on four years of bloody hot graphics cards. Noting that the ones prone to failure are the ones that constantly go above 80c.

I'm not going to question your knowledge on electronics, I mean I'm a pro with a toaster but I think I'll leave it to the scientists at the multi billion £ companies to work that out.

It's just my opinion Bungral. That's all mate. I also slated the 6850 and 6870. I saw them as being dissapointments. They were really. Especially when you can pretty much get a card that's identical, from ATI, with a 5 and the beginning of the name for the same price.

I would also strongly imagine that a 480 Lightning can beat a 580 due to the way it has been built and how it can be overclocked. The 580 does away with all of that as it has crap built in to prevent it. It seems to be fact now that if the card goes over 300w it throttles. And that's something done at a low level. So whilst it may indeed be cooler and quieter there's a reason behind that. Doing something like that will seriously limit overclocking ability I would imagine. Meaning that a 480 under control and pushed hard will beat it.

If it was £300? oh god, I would seriously consider selling the shirt off my back to own one. But it isn't. It's over four hundred pounds.

 

[Bungral]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

One last thing though, it's a bit under £400 squids and will likely drop in a month or so as is the Nvidia way usually when the release a big new card.

It will def drop should the 6970 beat it but if it doesn't then I doubt the 580 will drop much.

 

[alienware]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

One last thing though, it's a bit under £400 squids and will likely drop in a month or so as is the Nvidia way usually when the release a big new card.

It will def drop should the 6970 beat it but if it doesn't then I doubt the 580 will drop much.

Absolutely (A2DA). As I said, it's just an opinion.

And yeah of course you're spot on, it will drop. As I said mate I have very high expectations. When M$ released 7 they allowed so many units to be sold @ £50 by way of an apology for the travesty that was Vista. Nvidia? pah ! here now go and spend £400 more on the card we should have given you ages ago.

As I said, I'm a right nasty sod when it comes to being critical. That cooler that uses all new technology that the knob in the video was bragging about? Erm, Sapphire VaporX any one?

For the 580 I would liked to have seen something new. Or, if not new then at least using what has been test proven to be the best way to tame a hot card.

Is the Playstation 2 6970 a single cored card? because if it is f**k me it's bloody big

 

[Bungral]

Indeed it is single cored.. The 6990 will be the dual core card. Surely it wont be any longer than the 6970.

 

[alienware]

LMFAO. If it is then you'd need to chop a hole in the front of your case

Crikey.. I would imagine it's the same cooler tbh. Well, same shroud. If it's any bigger than that hefalump PS2 thing then it would be logistically impossible to put in your case

 

[Xochielt]

found on german page:

LINK

sells for 499.95€

 

[alienware]

HOW MUCH?

Crivens.