Water level keeps dropping, yet no leaks

[Bartacus]

Ok this is driving me bonkers. I only got into WCing 1 year ago, and for the most part I've been leak free. One of my rads developed a tiny leak not long ago (TFC Admiral). Known issue, got a set of replacement end tanks from my awesome local retailer, installed those without issue. I pulled the rad out of my loop without fully draining the loop though (since my loop is a bit complex, and I'm lazy). One of the connections to the rad has a QDC on it, so I just popped that off, then ripped off the other hose and drained the rad into a bowl, then plugged the open tube with a stopper. Removed rad, replaced end tanks, and shoved it back into the loop.

I topped off the loop, and after many air bubbles, things were back to normal, or so I thought. The water level kept dropping, and I kept telling myself it was just air working itself out of the loop. I checked for leaks many times (and still do), but I can't see a drop of leakage anywhere. Yet the water level has been dropping steadily. I fixed the rad almost 2 weeks ago, so any air bubbles should have been worked out by now (tube res is bubble free).

So either I'm going crazy, or I have the ninja assassin of water leaks. I can't find it anywhere. My pedestal *is* a bit tricky to see into, but I can tell there's no water beneath the pedestal rads, nor on the rad fittings.

WTF?

 

[Wraith]

Do you have a picture of your rig? or a diagram of the loop...

 

[Bartacus]

I have some pics, but the loop is a bit nuts, because major noob. I never post pics here just because it's embarrassing, but I'll try to lay this out starting with the front (don't laugh):


The loop runs backwards, kinda. There's an EX360 rad in the top above the mobo. The dual D5 top pushes up the tube on the far right into the TFC Admiral 360 on top, PSU side, which looks like this (old pic, loop wasn't done):




The TFC runs into the pedestal via a QDC, into the 360 Monsta below it, which runs across the pedestal to the 2nd 360 Monsta, connected noobishly and painfully like this:



After the 2nd Monsta, a fairly long loopy tube connects via QDC to another piece of tube going up behind the power supply, into the EX360 atop the mobo. In the middle pic, you can see the QDC dangling below the PSU, and that long tube that runs diagonally across the pedestal. Plus you can see a tiny piece of the tube above the PSU.

Every connection seems dry, although I can't really see well into the pedestal. I get a partial view, and I can get my girlie little hands in there to feel them, and it all seems dry.

 

[SeekaX]

I have some pics, but the loop is a bit nuts, because major noob. I never post pics here just because it's embarrassing, but I'll try to lay this out starting with the front (don't laugh):


The loop runs backwards, kinda. There's an EX360 rad in the top above the mobo. The dual D5 top pushes up the tube on the far right into the TFC Admiral 360 on top, PSU side, which looks like this (old pic, loop wasn't done):




The TFC runs into the pedestal via a QDC, into the 360 Monsta below it, which runs across the pedestal to the 2nd 360 Monsta, connected noobishly and painfully like this:



After the 2nd Monsta, a fairly long loopy tube connects via QDC to another piece of tube going up behind the power supply, into the EX360 atop the mobo. In the middle pic, you can see the QDC dangling below the PSU, and that long tube that runs diagonally across the pedestal. Plus you can see a tiny piece of the tube above the PSU.

Every connection seems dry, although I can't really see well into the pedestal. I get a partial view, and I can get my girlie little hands in there to feel them, and it all seems dry.

Oh lord. Why did you buy two different GPU blocks, why two D5s and what is up with that mess in the back? There are unconnected tubes, where do those go?
Are those three monsta 360mm rads + one 30mm 360mm rad? What the hell dude, one monsta would suffice for that setup lol. Well, it explains the two D5s.

 

[Bartacus]

Like I said bud, noob. All it takes is one noob getting into WCing and getting an unexpected back pay check, and that's what you get.

I didn't intentionally buy 2 GPU blocks. I started with one (obviously), but my GPU was non-reference. When I bought it, WCing was not the plan. When it became the plan, I bought a 2nd GPU, and noobishly assumed GPU blocks had standard ports on them. Dumb, but I didn't know better. Once I realized my mistake, I didn't have the $$$ to fix it properly.

4 rads total, 3 different brands. My system is everything OC3D guys hate, mismatching everything. 1 XSPC EX360, 1 TFC Admiral 360, 2 Monsta 360s, and 2 D5's running full blast all the time.

The back mess is because there's no neat way to have all the crap! Sure there are NEATER ways, but there's just so much crap. Working on a plan for that though.

 

[Dark NighT]

Okay i understand the need for silence when watercooling and using multiple rads to lower fan speeds, but 4 radiators is on the extreme level of overkill, but anyway that doesnt adress the issue you seem to be having. If i had to guess its that the loop isnt completely free of air yet, bubbles might be gone but that doesnt mean it is filled up all the way.

The radiators on the floor are on their side and they can keep a lot of air in that way and due to them slowly filling up because of the water pressure it may seem like you have a leak. I cant think of anything else really.

 

[Greenback]

with all those rads I'm betting if you haven't found any water leaks then it's air still in the loop, Start the loop up and move the case side to side back and forth, keep an ear out for the sound of trickling water

 

[Bartacus]

I've done all the shaking stuff (well, rocking it around on its casters), cycled down to 1 pump, back to 2, since I have kill switches for those, etc. I used to hear a slight gurgling every now and then, but not lately, so I was assuming the air was out.

EDIT: I just heard it gurgling again, so maybe there is some air left. I sure hope so!

As for the rads, yeah, massive overkill. That's the thing with Case Labs though. Why even buy one if you're not going to stuff it with rads? It's stupid to have 480mm of rad per cooled component, but it sure keeps the system cool.

 

[JR23]

Like you I did all of the shaking and leaning, got all of the bubbles out and then even took my rig for a 2 hour car journey and I still heard the occasional gurgle. I've probably lost about a quarter inch of coolant from my res since I thought all of the air was gone and I only have two rads. It's been over a month now and it's been through a lot of hot/cold cycles and it seems to have properly settled. None of the coolant has escaped

JR

 

[Bartacus]

That's good to know JR, thanks! The leaky rad experience I had with that TFC rad has me paranoid.

Thanks for the input gents!

 

[SeekaX]

Like you I did all of the shaking and leaning, got all of the bubbles out and then even took my rig for a 2 hour car journey and I still heard the occasional gurgle. I've probably lost about a quarter inch of coolant from my res since I thought all of the air was gone and I only have two rads. It's been over a month now and it's been through a lot of hot/cold cycles and it seems to have properly settled. None of the coolant has escaped

JR

You took your rig on a car journey to get rid of the bubbles? That's brilliant dude. Well, if it's properly sealed, if a fitting came loose you would've been fucked.

 

[Bartacus]

I'm trying to imagine how my back would handle getting mine into my Hyundai hatchback now. Not happening. I think this system takes over 3 litres of water.

 

[JR23]

You took your rig on a car journey to get rid of the bubbles? That's brilliant dude. Well, if it's properly sealed, if a fitting came loose you would've been fucked.

Yeah that's exactly why I put my rig in the car

I had to take it to University with me, obviously it wasn't on in the car. I leak tested for 24 hours, booted it without disturbing it to confirm everything was running correctly and packed it back up full of kitchen towel. When I arrived I scrutinized all of the kitchen towels and let it stand for 24 hours before powering it on for the second time. I didn't take any unnecessary risks and it stood up to the road vibrations and shocks of unloading/loading perfectly. My point was even after all of that there was still a little trapped air, probably at the top of the Monsta's huge end tanks.

Oh hell yeah it's heavy, living on the second floor doesn't help either, only ~1.7l not a 3l brute loop .

JR

 

[Xrqute]

haven't read previous posts but im sure they all say what im going to-

Air in the lines

 

[The_Governour]

Hey, with such a MONSTA set up what temps are you hitting at full OC - delta temps?

 

[Innocent159]

redo.

 

[Bartacus]

haven't read previous posts but im sure they all say what im going to-

Air in the lines

That's the concensus, but this air is taking quite a long time to come out if that's correct, hence my concern and starting this thread.

Hey, with such a MONSTA set up what temps are you hitting at full OC - delta temps?

Temps are great as far as I can tell, but I'm only mildly OCed (4.3Ghz, multiplier bump, manual voltage). GPUs aren't OCed much either, since one of em doesn't play nice with OCing, so I'm only at 1065 core / 1500 mem on the GPUs. CPU barely breaks 50C under stress, GPU1 tops out less than 40C, GPU2 tops out at 44C.

redo.

Maybe when I can afford a GPU upgrade. I did consider trying to get a used 7950 and another Heatkiller for a proper pairing, but that's too much $$$ for told old a GPU. I'm not spending $400 just to get matching GPU blocks. Besides, as weird as it sounds, I like the curves.

 

[paulstung]

I've used a few Monsta rads, and they can be a pain in the arse to bleed mate, I usually move the case so that one of the unused ports is at the highest point, then slowly open it, then add a piece of tube about 6-8 inch long then fill the tube, and add a blank, then when when you are turning the pump on and off, as well as moving the case around, keep an eye on the fluid level in the tube, once it goes down, add more fluid, and so on.

Another way I've done it, is again move the case until a top port is at the highest point undo it, and have a look to see if the fluid is to the top, if not fill it up, do that one rad at a time.

My last build I used a 420, and a 480 Monsta, and after a good hour I couldn't get the air out, but as soon as I checked both rads, and filled them separately, within 10 minutes it was sorted.

 

[Bartacus]

Paul: I used to fill my loop that way when I had the Monstas on the PSU side. Now that they're in the pedestal, more of a pain. But the ped is connected by QDCs, so I can just disconnect it and get at em that way. Or I just keep topping it off and be patient. I'll pull the pedestal apart on the weekend and get a good look inside.

Good tips, thanks man!

 

[Innocent159]

Maybe when I can afford a GPU upgrade. I did consider trying to get a used 7950 and another Heatkiller for a proper pairing, but that's too much $$$ for told old a GPU. I'm not spending $400 just to get matching GPU blocks. Besides, as weird as it sounds, I like the curves.

Did you try just planing and using less tubes and rads and just redo it without having to buy such a new gpu