TTL Talks: Internet Trolls

[tinytomlogan]

The point I'm making here is by having these two companies oversaturate the channel it's making it more difficult for you to get other companies to invest in you by giving you review samples.

Thats actually incorrect dude.

Its just much more difficult to get samples in the UK. but Asus and Corsaair send samples out a lot more like the yanks do.

Other brands just dont have the sample budget.

So the way the videos are balanced is based on what kit is available.

MSI might have 3 samples of one product for the whole of the UK for example, similair product from Asus might have 10+

 

[Doomslayer]

I want to make clear I'm not comparing you and Linus in any way except for brand representation in the videos.

They made almost 5x more videos than you but showed Asus products in half the amount of videos that you did Tom.

And they literally will make a video about anything to meet their video quota of one new video a day.

The point I'm making here is by having these two companies oversaturate the channel it's making it more difficult for you to get other companies to invest in you by giving you review samples.

Many years ago I used to review for ocworkbench.com (This is like 2003-2006) and we being a Sinagporean tech site were overrepresenting companies like ECS, Abit, DFI etc

When Gigabyte and Asus started to become really big they wouldn't send us anything because our main reviewer the guy who owned the site kept reviewing every single board ECS released. He had a very good relationship with them.

ocworkbench.com wasn't a small site, I even have RAM bought around 2005 with the OCW award logo on the back of its blister pack. And at the time it was the number one tech review site in Asia and yet we still got snubbed for boards.

It wasn't about us giving unfair awards, just reviewing too much of one company's stuff. After a while it starts to look like you're part of their marketing division getting your hands on every new product off the assembly line and it makes people question your impartiality.

Personally I love your long form reviews, I think what you review is excellent and I just want to see the channel grow more and have you review more things. All my computers run Corsair power supplies, my main rig is in a Corsair case. My main system uses an Asus Rampage IV Extreme, I use an Asus router.

No one is arguing they don't make good stuff or don't deserve the rewards. But honestly I can only watch so many videos about their stuff, I would like to see what MSI is doing, what Gigabyte is doing what EVGA is doing. I would like to see more water cooling parts.

These days I watch probably 100% of Jayz 2 Cents videos. Where most of his videos aren't actually product reviews but guides and interesting experiments he's doing with systems and water cooling. His subscriber numbers are 3x higher than OC3D and he hasn't been doing it very long. Just one guy in his house recording in a back bedroom like yourself.

In some ways it's like this whole product review thing is old media, giving things awards and such. I don't see many of the successful channels doing that anymore and they are focusing on original content that they're creating from scratch (like guides) than product reviews.

Anyway just my thoughts on it. I hope this message doesn't upset you or anyone, I'm not trying to be offensive or brutal. It's just my honest feelings, I've been a subscriber for many years.

As TTL has said it's up to those companies to send him products and it's their choice to send the products to him or not it's not his fault that companies like ASRock, Gigabyte & EVGA are not sending him products to review, So when companies like ASUS or Corsair who send him a product/ products to review you don't want him to review them cause he has done enough review for ASUS & Corsair stuff, Then if TTL did that ASUS & Corsair wouldn't send him any more products.

Does it really matter how the Sub size of the channel you watch the channel for the content not the size of the channel, IMO it's wrong to compare channel sizes.

 

[Vicey]

Thats actually incorrect dude.

Its just much more difficult to get samples in the UK. but Asus and Corsaair send samples out a lot more like the yanks do.

Other brands just dont have the sample budget.

So the way the videos are balanced is based on what kit is available.

MSI might have 3 samples of one product for the whole of the UK for example, similair product from Asus might have 10+

While what you're saying may be true (I have no way of knowing) other publications in the UK like Bit-Tech are not featuring Asus or Corsair to the same degree you are. They are showing 1 of each company's products for every 14 reviews they do on their site. I just checked. They have MSI, Asrock, Gigabyte, EVGA. All these companies that are hard to get are well represented on their website.

Obviously they have a better relationship with those companies to get those products, why that is? we can only guess but they are a UK review site are they not?

As TTL has said it's up to those companies to send him products and it's their choice to send the products to him or not it's not his fault that companies like ASRock, Gigabyte & EVGA are not sending him products to review, So when companies like ASUS or Corsair who send him a product/ products to review you don't want him to review them cause he has done enough review for ASUS & Corsair stuff, Then if TTL did that ASUS & Corsair wouldn't send him any more products.

Does it really matter how the Sub size of the channel you watch the channel for the content not the size of the channel, IMO it's wrong to compare channel sizes.

The comparison with sub size is used to gauge how many people enjoy the content. If people aren't enjoying it, they don't subscribe. If you check social blade for OC3D it has lost over 100 subs since TTL uploaded this video about trolls. His biggest drop in a very long time:

Why did those people unsubscribe? Because they consider themselves trolls? No. Because they felt the channel is oversaturated with Asus and Corsair content. TTL brought it up and they thought about it and disagreed with him and then unsubscribed.

And I disagree that it's not his fault that companies don't send him products. Other UK publications are getting review samples. OC3D is no different to Bit-Tech in that regard, if anything OC3D has a leg up on them because OC3D has a well maintained YouTube channel while Bit-Tech is mainly just their website.

Companies that choose to send Tom stuff get dual coverage.

Now you might say, oh Bit-Tech is so much bigger than OC3D though. Well you'd be wrong as according to Alexa Bit-Tech is rated as the 4096th most visited site in the UK and OC3D is rated as the 4,356th site in the UK. They're incredibly close and this doesn't include all 170K subscribers Tom has on the OC3D youtube channel.

Both sites are about the same in viewership in the UK but they're showing a lot different stuff than OC3D is.

A lot of this is my opinion, granted. But I think more could be done to show other companies stuff at OC3D and I really do feel that the over-coverage of Asus and Corsair stuff has harmed you getting samples. I know you disagree with that Tom and you believe it's just the limited samples in the UK but I'm not seeing evidence of that with other sites getting varied products that have the same level of popularity as OC3D does.

 

[tinytomlogan]

You really dont know how it works dude.

BitTech is massive compared to me and has a LOT of staff. I cant churn out the levels they can.

I do what I can but thats it. Sadly you just dont know the whole story and understand the industry dude so youre filling in the gaps with your own info. Go read what JR23 said before.

Also there are LOADS of other reviews on the website. I cant make videos about everything though, its just not possible. Im going nuts trying to make content more frequent now Im being told Im doing that wrong too.

 

[Vicey]

Maybe I don't and maybe what JR23 said is true. But do you at-least identify a problem here with 51% of your content is dedicated to just two companies?

You really have no way of knowing how many samples are in the UK in reality. They can just be saying to you, oh we only have 3 samples just to stop you asking for one, without actually being at their depo you can't really know and it's an easy way to thob someone off isnt it?

And honestly it doesn't matter how many people an organisation has when it comes to getting product samples. If the company doesn't like the review site, they wont send anything even if they have 100 people there willing to review something, just like how Tesla wouldn't give Top Gear another car to review after they ripped on the roadster.

 

[tinytomlogan]

Maybe I don't and maybe what JR23 said is true. But do you at-least identify a problem here with 51% of your content is dedicated to just two companies?

You really have no way of knowing how many samples are in the UK in reality. They can just be saying to you, oh we only have 3 samples just to stop you asking for one, without actually being at their depo you can't really know and it's an easy way to thob someone off isnt it?

And honestly it doesn't matter how many people an organisation has when it comes to getting product samples. If the company doesn't like the review site, they wont send anything even if they have 100 people there willing to review something, just like how Tesla wouldn't give Top Gear another car to review after they ripped on the roadster.

Thats only on the videos dude. Look at what Ive done since xmas....


If they decide not to send me a product because Im honest, then thats not my problem is it...... But youre acting like it is.

 

[Vicey]

Also there are LOADS of other reviews on the website. I cant make videos about everything though, its just not possible. Im going nuts trying to make content more frequent now Im being told Im doing that wrong too.

I know you work hard at it. I really do not have any issue with the quality of the reviews that you make. As I said I love the long form reviews, I think you go in depth.

Your case reviews are the best on youtube, simple as that. You're not doing it wrong.

I think some of what I'm saying here comes from a place of frustration as I am a fan, I've been watching for years and I just really really want more varied manufacturer's things.

A few years ago you gave a bad review to an NZXT case and it burned a bridge with them for a while I'm sure you remember. You didn't do anything wrong to cause that, you had integrity, something that many other review sites and youtubers don't have. Linus for example would never post that review if he made it for fear of p'ing NZXT off.

If anyone is saying you're a shill and censoring yourself to maintain deals then those people are trolls. But the ones here that are saying we just want you to review more varied products from other manufacturers, we're fans wanting to see your opinion.

I don't have answers for how to get you more products. Some suggestions here like crowdsourcing and buying items and sending them to you have not been well received by yourself but I do think a plan is needed.

 

[Vicey]

Thats only on the videos dude. Look at what Ive done since xmas....


If they decide not to send me a product because Im honest, then thats not my problem is it...... But youre acting like it is.

I know you do more than just the videos. But to be honest many people only watch the videos. I stopped visiting sites for reviews long time ago because I want to see the product in someone's hands. Not that I'm knocking the site it's a great site.

Also I'm not saying they're not sending you stuff because you're honest. Not at all. I'm saying they're not sending you stuff because you're covering too much of their competitors. But again that's just my opinion it's not a fact, I don't sit in meetings with these companies.

 

[tinytomlogan]

I know you work hard at it. I really do not have any issue with the quality of the reviews that you make. As I said I love the long form reviews, I think you go in depth.

Your case reviews are the best on youtube, simple as that. You're not doing it wrong.

I think some of what I'm saying here comes from a place of frustration as I am a fan, I've been watching for years and I just really really want more varied manufacturer's things.

A few years ago you gave a bad review to an NZXT case and it burned a bridge with them for a while I'm sure you remember. You didn't do anything wrong to cause that, you had integrity, something that many other review sites and youtubers don't have. Linus for example would never post that review if he made it for fear of p'ing NZXT off.

If anyone is saying you're a shill and censoring yourself to maintain deals then those people are trolls. But the ones here that are saying we just want you to review more varied products from other manufacturers, we're fans wanting to see your opinion.

I don't have answers for how to get you more products. Some suggestions here like crowdsourcing and buying items and sending them to you have not been well received by yourself but I do think a plan is needed.

Im running at capacity atm dude. Id love to do more I just dont have the ability atm. If it came to doing an Asrock cheapo board and something like an Asus ROG board then in all honesty from a business stand point Ill do the ROG because it will get read and watched more (not that Asrock bother even emailing)

Im doing the best I can with what I have available to me right now. But I can say something 100% - I wont be buying kit to review. If they dont want to send it thats their problem. If I bought it and I find issues then thats just crying out for trolls to get in, but at the same time if I say its epic people will say Im trying to win favor.
I cant win.

 

[Doomslayer]

While what you're saying may be true (I have no way of knowing) other publications in the UK like Bit-Tech are not featuring Asus or Corsair to the same degree you are. They are showing 1 of each company's products for every 14 reviews they do on their site. I just checked. They have MSI, Asrock, Gigabyte, EVGA. All these companies that are hard to get are well represented on their website.

Obviously they have a better relationship with those companies to get those products, why that is? we can only guess but they are a UK review site are they not?



The comparison with sub size is used to gauge how many people enjoy the content. If people aren't enjoying it, they don't subscribe. If you check social blade for OC3D it has lost over 100 subs since TTL uploaded this video about trolls. His biggest drop in a very long time:

Why did those people unsubscribe? Because they consider themselves trolls? No. Because they felt the channel is oversaturated with Asus and Corsair content. TTL brought it up and they thought about it and disagreed with him and then unsubscribed.

And I disagree that it's not his fault that companies don't send him products. Other UK publications are getting review samples. OC3D is no different to Bit-Tech in that regard, if anything OC3D has a leg up on them because OC3D has a well maintained YouTube channel while Bit-Tech is mainly just their website.

Companies that choose to send Tom stuff get dual coverage.

Now you might say, oh Bit-Tech is so much bigger than OC3D though. Well you'd be wrong as according to Alexa Bit-Tech is rated as the 4096th most visited site in the UK and OC3D is rated as the 4,356th site in the UK. They're incredibly close and this doesn't include all 170K subscribers Tom has on the OC3D youtube channel.

Both sites are about the same in viewership in the UK but they're showing a lot different stuff than OC3D is.

A lot of this is my opinion, granted. But I think more could be done to show other companies stuff at OC3D and I really do feel that the over-coverage of Asus and Corsair stuff has harmed you getting samples. I know you disagree with that Tom and you believe it's just the limited samples in the UK but I'm not seeing evidence of that with other sites getting varied products that have the same level of popularity as OC3D does.

I just don't watch a channel just cause they have a million or 2 million sub that part doesn't worry me i just don't care about that side of it, I don't understand why Google makes the info public, IMO just should just between Google, the channel
and companies.

I watch the persons channel cause i like there content i'm getting fed up with people comparing every tech review with Linus, Linus is not the be and end all, IMO there are way better reviewers than Linus anway, TTL is one of them.

Anyway why are you worry about the Sub count anway.

 

[Vicey]

Im running at capacity atm dude. Id love to do more I just dont have the ability atm. If it came to doing an Asrock cheapo board and something like an Asus ROG board then in all honesty from a business stand point Ill do the ROG because it will get read and watched more (not that Asrock bother even emailing)

Im doing the best I can with what I have available to me right now. But I can say something 100% - I wont be buying kit to review. If they dont want to send it thats their problem. If I bought it and I find issues then thats just crying out for trolls to get in, but at the same time if I say its epic people will say Im trying to win favor.
I cant win.

I understand. I know that the higher end gear is going to get people watching more videos. And I also understand that if Asrock wont answer an email there is nothing you can do about that.

I'm still watching your videos and enjoying them, linking the videos to friends that you make. I just want the channel to do well. Thanks for reading over what I said and replying.

I just don't watch a channel just cause they have a million or 2 million sub that part doesn't worry me i just don't care about that side of it, I don't understand why Google makes the info public, IMO just should just between Google, the channel
and companies.

I watch the persons channel cause i like there content i'm getting fed up with people comparing every tech review with Linus, Linus is not the be and end all, IMO there are way better reviewers than Linus anway, TTL is one of them.

Anyway why are you worry about the Sub count anway.

Again it has nothing to do with me. I don't watch peoples content based on how many subscribers they have. I brought the subscriber count up between him and Jayz 2 Cents (Not Linus, you're bringing Linus up about Sub counts, not me).

Because both do videos from a back bedroom, just 1 guy and a camera. They make very similar content and the subscriber numbers go to illustrate how someone in Toms career can have a huge amount of success in a very small time frame.

It's actually kinda funny how similar they are. They've both had a falling out with Mick from Mayhems over pastel colour changing and Jay even mentioned TTL's subscriber video where he discussed Orcas colour changing in one of his recent videos.

Now as to why I mentioned the subscriber count going down since this video being uploaded, it was because those people only chose to unsubscribe once Tom brought up this accusation that he's biased towards Corsair and Asus. Why did 100+ people choose to leave the channel forever at this point in time? Probably because they believed there is a bias and that is a problem. At the time these people left the video had only been watched 4,500 times. That's not a good thing, Toms livelihood depends on the success of the channel and this website. Ad revenue pays his bills.

Anyway I'm a fan I just want the site and channel and Tom to do well. I wish no ill will, I think I've put my opinion across I'll step back now as I don't want to monopolise the whole discussion with just my thoughts.

 

[tinytomlogan]

Im trying my best dude I really am. Ive put my heart and soul into this site.

Id never have bought the site back after it got sold from under me otherwise.

I always ALWAYS want to do more and better content but right now Im doing the best I possibly can with the time and resources I have.

Id love to get more staff and I will when I can afford it, right now its just not possible.

 

[Doomslayer]

Again it has nothing to do with me. I don't watch peoples content based on how many subscribers they have. I brought the subscriber count up between him and Jayz 2 Cents (Not Linus, you're bringing Linus up about Sub counts, not me).

Because both do videos from a back bedroom, just 1 guy and a camera. They make very similar content and the subscriber numbers go to illustrate how someone in Toms career can have a huge amount of success in a very small time frame.

It's actually kinda funny how similar they are. They've both had a falling out with Mick from Mayhems over pastel colour changing and Jay even mentioned TTL's subscriber video where he discussed Orcas colour changing in one of his recent videos.

Now as to why I mentioned the subscriber count going down since this video being uploaded, it was because those people only chose to unsubscribe once Tom brought up this accusation that he's biased towards Corsair and Asus. Why did 100+ people choose to leave the channel forever at this point in time? Probably because they believed there is a bias and that is a problem. At the time these people left the video had only been watched 4,500 times. That's not a good thing, Toms livelihood depends on the success of the channel and this website. Ad revenue pays his bills.

Anyway I'm a fan I just want the site and channel and Tom to do well. I wish no ill will, I think I've put my opinion across I'll step back now as I don't want to monopolise the whole discussion with just my thoughts.

People are always going to Sub and then after a while they Unsub it's just part of the Youtube life there is nothing people can do about it, I'm sure you brought Linus up earlier in the thread, I needed to vent about that cause like i said i'm just fed up with that.

 

[JR23]

You really have no way of knowing how many samples are in the UK in reality. They can just be saying to you, oh we only have 3 samples just to stop you asking for one, without actually being at their depo you can't really know and it's an easy way to thob someone off isnt it?

Literally you do know. ASRock ship samples from Taiwain, EVGA from Germany. ASUS and MSI have reps, with samples, in the UK. It takes a serious relationship with any company to get samples, especially in a hurry and it's genuinely difficult to establish one with just any company. Actually meeting the respective people in person makes a huge difference and you just can't do that with a lot of brands in the UK, whereas in the rest of the world things are a little different. Bit-tech's team are incredibly well connected and for one man in a not so huge space of time so is Tom!

Don't overlook either that ASUS are willing to promote ROG, Strix, Pro, WS... whereas MSI just concentrate on Gaming. Rightly or wrongly all companies work differently and it's clear to see that ASUS and Corsair work well with OC3D and negating the others isn't through lack of trying. And when you consider for example Corsair have individual competitors in each of their respective product lines, and they have a lot, their competition is well represented.


I think also that your reading a great deal into the unsubs, it is partly going to be down to the fact some people are disappointed not to see another video review about tech. The politics aren't enjoyable and it can come across a bit baity, for those just tired of hearing a bit too much of it then it will be the last straw for them.

JR

 

[Vicey]

Im trying my best dude I really am. Ive put my heart and soul into this site.

Id never have bought the site back after it got sold from under me otherwise.

I always ALWAYS want to do more and better content but right now Im doing the best I possibly can with the time and resources I have.

Id love to get more staff and I will when I can afford it, right now its just not possible.

I don't doubt you're trying your hardest. It was a big deal to buy the site Tom and I think you've done great with it. The redesign of the homepage, new forums. Combining the branding of the YouTube channel with the Site.

I think you're progressing in general really. The videos are better quality now than ever before. You're moving forward so don't second guess yourself or think me or others think you're in a slump.

 

[Doomslayer]

Literally you do know. ASRock ship samples from Taiwain, EVGA from Germany. ASUS and MSI have reps, with samples, in the UK. It takes a serious relationship with any company to get samples, especially in a hurry and it's genuinely difficult to establish one with just any company. Actually meeting the respective people in person makes a huge difference and you just can't do that with a lot of brands in the UK, whereas in the rest of the world things are a little different. Bit-tech's team are incredibly well connected and for one man in a not so huge space of time so is Tom!

Don't overlook either that ASUS are willing to promote ROG, Strix, Pro, WS... whereas MSI just concentrate on Gaming. Rightly or wrongly all companies work differently and it's clear to see that ASUS and Corsair work well with OC3D and negating the others isn't through lack of trying. And when you consider for example Corsair have individual competitors in each of their respective product lines, and they have a lot, their competition is well represented.


I think also that your reading a great deal into the unsubs, it is partly going to be down to the fact some people are disappointed not to see another video review about tech. The politics aren't enjoyable and it can come across a bit baity, for those just tired of hearing a bit too much of it then it will be the last straw for them.

JR

Couldn't have said it better myself

Subs will come and go only the true fans will stick around.

 

[Chris77]

Hi Tom,

My first ever post on the forums but an important one i feel.

Unfortunately Tom you're never going to be able to please everyone on here an will always get some trolls an haters with there own views on what your doing. Its extremely sad and very uncalled for as your only trying to help and advise the community with your product reviews and awards.
I enjoy the TTL talks an hope you manage to get the time to do more of them. An as for the system builds i look forward to seeing what systems you decide on building.


As far as the awards go, Come on guys use your brains and do your own research into a product/products if your in the market for buying. as well as getting many more reviews an opinions before you purchase. An Award from tom is simply a guide an his thoughts towards the products. at the end of the day we all have our own thoughts and opinions on things in life.

Keep up the great videos and reviews Tom & OC3D helpers.

 

[Moriarty]

As I said on FB:
Seriously Tom, just don't worry about the trolls. I have to admit that much of my hard earned cash is spent on your say so. Personally had bad experience with ASUS mobo in the past and love my MSI gear but your opinion carrys huge weight when I look to buy! So a big thank you from me and I would think others agree, you do a grand job!

 

[tinytomlogan]

I( think this thread has been pretty healthy.

Lots of positive support which is great but there has been plenty of people picking fault too.

Maybe I have had a load of negativity right at the time Im working my ringer off trying to bring better content and its just made me wonder wtf the point is.

Lets face it, this is all here because I actually care. If I only did it for money then I would never have bought the site or would ever bother spending more like I am now just to try and make things better.

What we really need is for Asus and Corsair to stop releasing stuff, or make some real bad stuff so I can do what I do now and people actually see it

 

[TPC]

Right. I think you there is more about that "trolling" than just people wanting more content but rather more integrity in my opinion. Having the site flood with gold awards is just stupid and that is mainly reasoned the the fact that you give everything from Corsair or Asus a gold award. no matter how bad it is. It began with the 250D and the most recent one is the Corsair headset which just sounded bad but still you said that we were "astounded". I get that you want to please the few sponsors you do actually have but you should be honest and not just be a marketing figurine. Also the metal awarding system has to go. If a product gets silver it just sounds bad. Doesn't mean it has to be I know but it just sounds like cr*p and again by having given so many products which are arguably worse gold it sounds really unreasonable. Ditch the metal awards and make the performance/innovation etc. awards the thing for manufacturers to go for. Something I'd maybe also just create a table with pros and cons about a product. cold hard facts are always the best and readers can create an opinion about a product easier than having to read a conclusion that vaguely describes why it now got that award and not the better one. A table also gives people who really cba to either watch a 30 min repetitive video or read a 10+ page review a faster way to get product information, these people of course have to keep in mind they miss out on details.