TTL Talks: Internet Trolls

[dev0603]

Hi Guys,

Regarding to the main topic, I don't think that Tom making videos about Asus/Corsair products, if they are sending it to him. If others happy to send samples for review.. that's fine. But we can not ask anybody to purchase something in order to make any videos about it..

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I'll going to build a skylake build next week ( temporary ), and I need your toughs.
My 980TI chooise is the Gigabyte Extreme Gaming, it should be the same as the top Asus one, but lighter, and looks nice for me.
At the moment, if you want to game in 4k, many cases 2 x 980TI not enough to maintain the 60FPS ( Division Ultra ), so this will be a temporary solutions, and later on when the Pascal GPU-s came out, I will pop into 2 x 1080 card. [ + motherboard , cpu replace to B-E platform. ]

But at the moment, I need some feedback, whether I chosen the parts properly or not.

Screenshot about the parts attached, partpicker link: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/dMFLhM

 

[Vicey]

I don't want to be branded as a troll. But honestly I have felt like the channels coverage of Asus and Corsair products has been rather high the past year compared to other products.

So I thought I'd do a little test and I opened your video pane on Youtube and looked through the past 2 years of videos. Here is what I found:

210 Videos - 2 Years ago to now.

Asus: 58 - 27.62% of all 210 videos, 32.96% of just 176 product videos
Corsair: 32 - 15.24% of all 210 videos, 18.20% of just 176 product videos

Combined just Asus and Corsair: 42.86% of all 210 videos.
Or 51.16% of just product videos (176 videos)

MSI: 16
Gigabyte: 10
AMD: 10
NVIDIA: 10
Intel: 9
Fractal: 5
NZXT: 5
Cablemod/Cable Mod: 4
Silverstone: 3
Superflower: 3
Alphacool: 2
Crucial: 2
Noctua: 2
Powercolor: 1
GSkill: 1
XFX: 1
Samsung: 1
InWin: 1
KFA: 1
Asrock: 0
EVGA: 0

—— 176 Product Videos over the past two years — —

That's quite a lot of videos dedicated to Asus and Corsair. And sometimes it isn't just one or two videos in a row, I found that on two separate occasions over the past year you uploaded four videos about Asus back to back. And for both Asus and Corsair combined, there has been a single time when you've made 7 videos and more than 5 times when you've made Corsair/Asus videos back to back up to 4-5 videos in a stack.

The thing most interesting is that 3 years ago your channel was a lot more balanced. You reviewed more Gigabyte boards three years ago than in the previous two years combined. Same with EVGA. I was actually very surprised to not find a single EVGA product review in the past 2 years. Clearly they're still making stuff. The only reference to them at all I found was a Cablemods review with EVGA and Corsair referenced in it because the Cables they make are available for both brands.

Of course this doesn't mean anything if we don't check the competition so that's what I did. Linus Tech Tips is often sponsored by Corsair and they have been sponsored by Asus many times, they've even had JJ from Asus on their channel probably more than 10 times.

How many videos have they made in the past two years about Asus/Corsair combined? They made 34 videos about Asus and 25 about Corsair. That's out of 912 videos. They literally make a video about almost every product and yet they couldn't match Tom in Asus or Corsair videos.

Here is how they stack up with some of these companies competitors:

Asus: 34
MSI: 31
Corsair: 25
Gigabyte: 15
Silverstone: 9
EVGA: 6

Out of their 912 videos Corsair and Asus combined is only 59 videos or 6.47%. That's a big difference. Now of course I know Linus group make more videos, Almost five times more in the same time span. And yet they made less Asus and Corsair videos than Tom. I don't even understand how that's possible. You made almost twice as many Asus videos as they did, which boggles my mind with these numbers to be honest.

I'm sure many of us here think the Linus Tech people are more entertainment than hard journalism but they do show pretty much every new thing they can, they are literally running out of things to make videos about and even they couldn't make 58 videos about Asus products.

Do I think Tom is biased? No. I think what has actually occurred is you started getting too many products from Asus and Corsair and it has pushed the other OEM's away. You are now seen by them as an Asus and Corsair marketing person and not an individual reviewer.

I know as well as many people here that you can review things impartially. I am not bringing into question your impartiality at all. I am definitely not saying that because Asus and Corsair send you stuff you give them better reviews.

What I am saying is you've received too many things from them and now can't get your hands on other companies products as a result and so your channel is entering this vicious cycle. I mean for real 51% of all the products you showed in videos over the past two years were from just two companies. That's absolutely ridiculous for a hardware review channel when there are so many products available in the computing category.

Again I don't prescribe to the notion that you're bias or giving these companies products rewards they don't deserve. I'm merely saying, you need to stop showing so many of these companies products on the channel and work harder at getting other companies stuff.

I don't pretend to understand how difficult of a position you're in as I know Asrock refused to send you a board.

In that video you said you thought they were afraid you'd knock it to pieces with harsh criticism. And you know why that is right? because of all the Asus videos you do. That is their main rival and 32.96% of all your product videos are Asus motherboards. They gave plenty of other reviewers that board, sites that were harsh on its cooler, harsh on why it even exists when it sacrifices so much of the X99 platform etc

Anyway I'm going to wrap up here. I'm definitely not trying to troll but I do disagree with some of the video you made, the numbers don't support the claim that the YouTube channel is impartial, Asus and Corsair are too overrepresented for that claim to be true.

 

[Dicehunter]

I like that you called us regulars "balanced" people HAHAHAHAHA

Good video, Though I've noticed there has been a rise in the number of trolls in general as of late which is worrying behaviour.

 

[Doomslayer]

I like that you called us regulars "balanced" people HAHAHAHAHA

Good video, Though I've noticed there has been a rise in the number of trolls in general as of late which is worrying behaviour.

"balanced"????? I'm not balanced ^_^

 

[Dicehunter]

"balanced"????? I'm not balanced ^_^

The good ones are never balanced ^_^

 

[Tolemac]

I like the idea of themed system builds Tom that way you can focus not only on the high end components but what works well with each other and to give some forum users an insight into builds that are better suited to their budget. As for the trolls push them back under their bridges they just want a reaction out of you like an attention seeking kid would, this is one of the reasons why I quit World of Warcraft for the time being . We all know there has been a lot of Asus and Corsair reviews lately but I understand these 2 companies are bringing a lot out atm at least they are sending you things to review. I personally would love to see you do a review on the Sapphire card range my 290x Vapor X never goes above 73C when I have been gaming for 6 hours "but i've said this before" keep up the good work fella and thanks for the Z97-A it's never failed me

 

[tinytomlogan]

quote

I cant compete with the content that Linus puts out. I dont charge companies per video or ask people to contribute towards the production costs.

I think saying I get too much stuff is a bit counter active tbh. Stopping making as many videos for them wont mean you get more videos about other stuff, it just means less videos.

 

[Dicehunter]

I cant compete with the content that Linus puts out. I dont charge companies per video or ask people to contribute towards the production costs.

I think saying I get too much stuff is a bit counter active tbh. Stopping making as many videos for them wont mean you get more videos about other stuff, it just means less videos.

Don't mean to sound like a raving fanboy here but in all honesty I prefer your videos over Linus' due to the fact that every monitor Linus gets is the best ever, Every GPU he gets is the best ever and you really really can't fit all the much needed info about a product that costs 600 slats into an 8 minute video no matter how many shiny intros there are.

Raging OC3D Boner, Engaged ! ^_^

 

[Tolemac]

Linus to me = spoilt little rich kid with an ego the size of Merica and thinks he is something "special" (sorry American forum users)

on the other hand TTL is just an average english guy who speaks truthfully and honestly about the products he has been given to review even if it upsets the manufacturer. I can understand him more than I can LTT and this forum is one of the best out there. It has been helpful to me and also funny at times although we may need to cull the trolls

 

[Doomslayer]

Don't mean to sound like a raving fanboy here but in all honesty I prefer your videos over Linus' due to the fact that every monitor Linus gets is the best ever, Every GPU he gets is the best ever and you really really can't fit all the much needed info about a product that costs 600 slats into an 8 minute video no matter how many shiny intros there are.

Raging OC3D Boner, Engaged ! ^_^

But you are a raving fanboy, Don't try to hide it ^_^

 

[Dicehunter]

But you are a raving fanboy, Don't try to hide it ^_^

Shhhhh it's a secret !

 

[Doomslayer]

Shhhhh it's a secret !

Too late now
The whole world knows :lol:

 

[Tolemac]

but you are a raving fanboy, don't try to hide it ^_^

hahahaha

 

[SuB]

Nice, honest video Tom. Keep up the good work, everyone who matters supports you and you know this. We got your back.

 

[DarthDudo]

How about in instances where manufacturers can't/wont send a product you could turn to the community for funding?Then maybe use those components in future giveaways and competitions.

I think that would be a good balance, your covered for those cost's which makes the content possible (which everybody wants, nigh needs!) and members of the community could have a chance at more competitions etc(more value for their money than 99.99% of all other crowdfunders), it's not the same para-social relationship like LTT, it would actually benefit the community having these critical reviews of products although I do understand why you are so hesitant on these crowd funding platforms.

Also, I know your having a tough time with the trolls at the minute but what you are forgetting is that people came here for YOU for YOUR opinions, make the videos YOU want to make, you cant please everybody mate so don't even try you will burn yourself out for people who could care less about the content or this community.

One more idea, Scrap your awards, all of them. People bitch and moan about awards but all that matters is the opinion behind them, ditch them and just present your opinions, people will agree or disagree as usual however their will be less calls of corruption or bias towards manufacturer's.

 

[JR23]

Corsair and ASUS have been extremely good to you, there's no doubt you have helped to grow and add value to their brand and they have done the same to you. Being proud of that relationship and genuinely enjoying their products is completely understandable. Any regular knows that.

Both of those manufacturers along with MSI and HyperX are prominent in promoting their brand within the UK and while OC3D may have a global audience it is very much British. EVGA, ASRock and Gigabyte simply don't have the same level of presence here, the variety of the channel practically mirrors the variety you would expect to see at a PC/Gaming show in the UK. There's no shying away from the fact that's what people buy either, so carry on reviewing it.

Is that right, wrong or impartial? That's always just going to depend how it's treated, nearly every product that's reviewed seems to get a gold (Corsair, ASUS or anything) and I do honestly think in some situations that isn't deserved, but if it makes sense to you then stick by it. I think some revision is needed to the awards, I know you've discussed it, go with what you want to do moving forwards and if it takes longer than 3 minutes to explain the new system in the next video, then it's rubbish.

If i'm going to watch a video to get your opinion I don't expect to get mine.

But if i'm going to watch a video and then spend the last 20 minutes of it hearing how you think you've covered your arse against trolls in the most defensive manner possible then your just opening the matter for discussion and frankly, trolling. This video itself is a perfect example of that, there's not much real content to engage with. While some sincerity comes across it is largely defensive. Don't constantly explain yourself, make a point, justify it and move on. Balance the points and give it an award. The whole 'if they had done this' business and you would of done whatever, just doesn't matter, it's not going to change now, as frustratingly simple as it may be your reviewing what you have been given.

JR

 

[Dark NighT]

How about in instances where manufacturers can't/wont send a product you could turn to the community for funding?Then maybe use those components in future giveaways and competitions.

I think that would be a good balance, your covered for those cost's which makes the content possible (which everybody wants, nigh needs!) and members of the community could have a chance at more competitions etc(more value for their money than 99.99% of all other crowdfunders), it's not the same para-social relationship like LTT, it would actually benefit the community having these critical reviews of products although I do understand why you are so hesitant on these crowd funding platforms.

Also, I know your having a tough time with the trolls at the minute but what you are forgetting is that people came here for YOU for YOUR opinions, make the videos YOU want to make, you cant please everybody mate so don't even try you will burn yourself out for people who could care less about the content or this community.

One more idea, Scrap your awards, all of them. People bitch and moan about awards but all that matters is the opinion behind them, ditch them and just present your opinions, people will agree or disagree as usual however their will be less calls of corruption or bias towards manufacturer's.

I don't think this is a good idea for oc3d, the community we have is here because of Tom's neutral stance over the years and not being tied to anyone but his own business, if Tom allows crowdfunding then expectations get raised, more pressure is applied to said expectations and it could just go downhill from there, and that is without even accounting for the daily dish of trolls.

As for the awards, they need to stay, Tom has made them his own and they deserve to stay, never mind the trolls and community on that front, if Tom scraps them then he will get more flack for that and companies don't get to put up the shiny award on their product page, and that helps drive traffic to oc3d which in turn helps Tom keep doing with what he is doing, maintaining a great community with a lot of passion and creating awesomely detailed videos that you do not see anywhere else.

Tom, Keep up with what you been doing and you can't please everyone, i do however miss the old heatsink reviews, where you did prime95 and shared it all live on screen with ambient temps, delta temps, all that good stuff. That said, you are still the best reviewer for hardware, and i look forward to more video's in the future.

 

[WYP]

Corsair and ASUS have been extremely good to you, there's no doubt you have helped to grow and add value to their brand and they have done the same to you. Being proud of that relationship and genuinely enjoying their products is completely understandable. Any regular knows that.

Both of those manufacturers along with MSI and HyperX are prominent in promoting their brand within the UK and while OC3D may have a global audience it is very much British. EVGA, ASRock and Gigabyte simply don't have the same level of presence here, the variety of the channel practically mirrors the variety you would expect to see at a PC/Gaming show in the UK. There's no shying away from the fact that's what people buy either, so carry on reviewing it.

Is that right, wrong or impartial? That's always just going to depend how it's treated, nearly every product that's reviewed seems to get a gold (Corsair, ASUS or anything) and I do honestly think in some situations that isn't deserved, but if it makes sense to you then stick by it. I think some revision is needed to the awards, I know you've discussed it, go with what you want to do moving forwards and if it takes longer than 3 minutes to explain the new system in the next video, then it's rubbish.

If i'm going to watch a video to get your opinion I don't expect to get mine.

But if i'm going to watch a video and then spend the last 20 minutes of it hearing how you think you've covered your arse against trolls in the most defensive manner possible then your just opening the matter for discussion and frankly, trolling. This video itself is a perfect example of that, there's not much real content to engage with. While some sincerity comes across it is largely defensive. Don't constantly explain yourself, make a point, justify it and move on. Balance the points and give it an award. The whole 'if they had done this' business and you would of done whatever, just doesn't matter, it's not going to change now, as frustratingly simple as it may be your reviewing what you have been given.

JR

JR does raise a very important point here, OC3D is very much British and the UK market is very different than the US.

No brand throws as much money at the UK as the US, meaning that it is much more difficult to get review samples from all manufacturers.

 

[tinytomlogan]

How about in instances where manufacturers can't/wont send a product you could turn to the community for funding?Then maybe use those components in future giveaways and competitions.

I think that would be a good balance, your covered for those cost's which makes the content possible (which everybody wants, nigh needs!) and members of the community could have a chance at more competitions etc(more value for their money than 99.99% of all other crowdfunders), it's not the same para-social relationship like LTT, it would actually benefit the community having these critical reviews of products although I do understand why you are so hesitant on these crowd funding platforms.

If I did that it just gives companies a reason not to send me stuff. They get a sale, a review and a competition.

C

Both of those manufacturers along with MSI and HyperX are prominent in promoting their brand within the UK and while OC3D may have a global audience it is very much British. EVGA, ASRock and Gigabyte simply don't have the same level of presence here, the variety of the channel practically mirrors the variety you would expect to see at a PC/Gaming show in the UK. There's no shying away from the fact that's what people buy either, so carry on reviewing it.


JR

I hadnt thought about it in that way. It is much more difficult to get varied parts over here, especially within a decent time frame. I cant review a board 6 months after launch just to balance brand %.

 

[Vicey]

I cant compete with the content that Linus puts out. I dont charge companies per video or ask people to contribute towards the production costs.

I think saying I get too much stuff is a bit counter active tbh. Stopping making as many videos for them wont mean you get more videos about other stuff, it just means less videos.

I want to make clear I'm not comparing you and Linus in any way except for brand representation in the videos.

They made almost 5x more videos than you but showed Asus products in half the amount of videos that you did Tom.

And they literally will make a video about anything to meet their video quota of one new video a day.

The point I'm making here is by having these two companies oversaturate the channel it's making it more difficult for you to get other companies to invest in you by giving you review samples.

Many years ago I used to review for ocworkbench.com (This is like 2003-2006) and we being a Sinagporean tech site were overrepresenting companies like ECS, Abit, DFI etc

When Gigabyte and Asus started to become really big they wouldn't send us anything because our main reviewer the guy who owned the site kept reviewing every single board ECS released. He had a very good relationship with them.

ocworkbench.com wasn't a small site, I even have RAM bought around 2005 with the OCW award logo on the back of its blister pack. And at the time it was the number one tech review site in Asia and yet we still got snubbed for boards.

It wasn't about us giving unfair awards, just reviewing too much of one company's stuff. After a while it starts to look like you're part of their marketing division getting your hands on every new product off the assembly line and it makes people question your impartiality.

Personally I love your long form reviews, I think what you review is excellent and I just want to see the channel grow more and have you review more things. All my computers run Corsair power supplies, my main rig is in a Corsair case. My main system uses an Asus Rampage IV Extreme, I use an Asus router.

No one is arguing they don't make good stuff or don't deserve the rewards. But honestly I can only watch so many videos about their stuff, I would like to see what MSI is doing, what Gigabyte is doing what EVGA is doing. I would like to see more water cooling parts.

These days I watch probably 100% of Jayz 2 Cents videos. Where most of his videos aren't actually product reviews but guides and interesting experiments he's doing with systems and water cooling. His subscriber numbers are 3x higher than OC3D and he hasn't been doing it very long. Just one guy in his house recording in a back bedroom like yourself.

In some ways it's like this whole product review thing is old media, giving things awards and such. I don't see many of the successful channels doing that anymore and they are focusing on original content that they're creating from scratch (like guides) than product reviews.

Anyway just my thoughts on it. I hope this message doesn't upset you or anyone, I'm not trying to be offensive or brutal. It's just my honest feelings, I've been a subscriber for many years.