Integrated heatsinks

[AdrianD2]

OK, so processors have that metal heat-shield protecting all the goodies inside, right? You need a heatsink to dissipate heat from the CPU so it doesn't fry.

What I do understand is why Intel and AMD haven't replaced that heat-shield with a direct contact heatsink? There would be no need for TIM, and I think it would be more cost efficient and obviously cooler. I understand that some people want their own heatsinks and watercooling and all that, but I'm talking about the home PCs and might I dare say... MACs!!!

I think this would be great for the Atom processors and laptops!

I am talking about the metal bit on top, just in case you didn't understand

http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2007/10/29/hitting_4ghz_with_air_cooling/01-start_cpu.jpg

 

[S_I_N]

back in the day it was direct contact and you still needed TIM. Tim allows the heat to be transferred more effectively and basically IIRC you put the two together without it not only will you fry the CPU but it'll weld themselves together lol. Also the metal cap called an IHS protects the core from chipping which alot of folks did back in the day by not properly tightening the hsf assembly down properly.

 

[yggdrasil]

it is a good idea but under that plate is this

So you could remove the plate and mount a heatsink directly on the coor in theory it could work. Kinda like the old days of P3 :S

 

[S_I_N]

dont do it lol even the PIII's had thermal pads on them there needs to be a Thermal Interface Material between the 2 surfaces or extreme heat will result and fry ur cpu. I know when I upgraded my first rig 100MHz to a 200MHz proc I didnt know about TIM. I slapped that hsf on and fired it up and it lasted all of 10seconds before shutting down. Lucky for me I didnt fry my cpu but I did burn the shit outta my fingers when i grabbed the hsf to check my cpu seating lol and I mean burned badly lol

 

[critical]

dont do it lol even the PIII's had thermal pads on them there needs to be a Thermal Interface Material between the 2 surfaces or extreme heat will result and fry ur cpu. I know when I upgraded my first rig 100MHz to a 200MHz proc I didnt know about TIM. I slapped that hsf on and fired it up and it lasted all of 10seconds before shutting down. Lucky for me I didnt fry my cpu but I did burn the shit outta my fingers when i grabbed the hsf to check my cpu seating lol and I mean burned badly lol

rofl at that, but on a serious note you have kinda got the wrong idea mate.

TIM does not transfer the heat, it fills any voids between the cooler and heatspreader of the CPU. Less TIM is better and in an ideal world both surfaces (of CPU heatspreader and cooler) would mate perfectly and no TIM would be needed at all. This is why you get shite performance from a good CPU cooler if you use too much TIM. TIM hinders heat transfer

 

[S_I_N]

rofl at that, but on a serious note you have kinda got the wrong idea mate.

TIM does not transfer the heat, it fills any voids between the cooler and heatspreader of the CPU. Less TIM is better and in an ideal world both surfaces (of CPU heatspreader and cooler) would mate perfectly and no TIM would be needed at all. This is why you get shite performance from a good CPU cooler if you use too much TIM. TIM hinders heat transfer

have to disagree with ya there yes to much TIM hinders performance. But you need something between the metals to make it work. Just not for filling the minor voids between the two. If it was as you say then the manufactures would make a seperate hsf assembly it would be an all in one solution cpusink and fan all in one. which would be more cost effective for them to manufacture than the current design. Plus it would eliminate all the failure for them from ppl doing it wrong. Basically I'm saying theres more to TIM than filling voids.

 

[critical]

have to disagree with ya there yes to much TIM hinders performance. But you need something between the metals to make it work. Just not for filling the minor voids between the two. If it was as you say then the manufactures would make a seperate hsf assembly it would be an all in one solution cpusink and fan all in one. which would be more cost effective for them to manufacture than the current design. Plus it would eliminate all the failure for them from ppl doing it wrong. Basically I'm saying theres more to TIM than filling voids.

no, there really isn't, thats why it's called Thermal Interface Material and not Thermal Transfer Material or other term that describes transfer of heat. Certainly some TIM compounds work better than others due to what it's made from, but its only purpose is to fill the voids (look at metal under a microscope) between the contact sufraces of the CPU and the cooler.

Back in the day of really hot CPU's people used to lap the CPU heatspreader (sand them down with increasingly fine grit sandpaper) till they got the smoothest surface they could for the best contact to the cooler. Also more important is mounting pressure of your CPU cooler and its capacity to take the heat away from the CPU.

An interesting read into this can be found at BenchmarkReviews. I linked the page that deals with what we are talking about but you might find the whole article quite interesting.

 

[S_I_N]

well hell then I'll just rip the IHS off my cpu and put a fan directly blowing on the core lol. Yeah I did a lil more research after I posted that disagree part and sw something similar. But consider my other point why wouldnt they just make it one piece then seems like it'd be more cost effective. But would put some companies out of biz lol

 

[KaraMurat]

TIM is thermally conductive and is applied to reduce Interfacial thermal resistance, which in turn increases the thermal transfer efficiency. So TIM is used to fill in the pockets of air (or voids), however doing so also increases thermal efficiency as it is thermally conductive and air isn't.

Manufacturers, engineers and computer builders wouldn't use TIM if it wasn't needed, no matter how much pressure the mounting bracket has and no matter how smooth the heatsink + the cpu is TIM is still needed to efficiently transfer heat.

Here's a guide on how TIM works

Edit: Forgot to answer actual topic

IHS is used to protect the semiconductor chip and ensure you don't kill your chip. The IHS stops the heat being trapped around the chip by dissipating onto the IHS which has a larger surface area than the actual chip and in turn a traditional heatsink has a larger surface area to work with.

So even with the crappy stock heatsinks you can't kill your chip at least at stock settings and half-decent airflow.

 

[AdrianD2]

I'm curious, has anyone ever re-TIMed their plate? It would be interesting to see some data on that!

 

[S_I_N]

I'm curious, has anyone ever re-TIMed their plate? It would be interesting to see some data on that!

well most ppl who take it off leave it off for direct contact which can get ya a tad bit better cooling. (at least it did back in the day) IMHO its not worth risking ur warranty or cpu's death to do it.