Change in pipe diameter, mid loop, bad?

[Mysterae]

Quick question for you:

Is it detrimental to have a reduction in pipe diameter in a serial loop?

For example I'm thinking of having the part of the loop with res, pump and radiator as 1/2" pipe and the other part of the loop with the blocks as 10mm.

The 10mm pipework will be a restriction of course, but would using 1/2" for part of it be any worse than using 10mm pipe for all of the pipework?

 

[alpenwasser]

The 10mm pipework will be a restriction of course, but would using 1/2" for part of it be any worse than using 10mm pipe for all of the pipework?

Just to make sure I understand correctly, the two possibilities are:

• all 10 mm ID
• mixed 12.7 mm and 10 mm ID

And the question is whether or not possibility 2 would be worse?

I can't really see how.

On another note, at the flow speeds we have in our water loops, the difference in flow (let alone performance) between 12.7 mm ID and 10 mm ID would not be very significant imho.

I don't see a problem with mixing these two from a performance point of view.

 

[tinytomlogan]

performance wise no but looks wise yes.

Why mix?

 

[Mysterae]

Cheers Aplenwasser, it was a consideration that popped in to my head as I finalise my water cooling components. It was with the option of either 10mm or 13mm quick disconnects that I thought the 13mm tubing may be better going from my rig to the external radiator, rather than 10mm.

For example - my loop will have 2 sides, A and B, with bulkhead QDC's between them.

Side A - 10mm pipework, consisting of CPU block, GPU block x2, 1 flow sensor and 2 inline temperature sensors.

Side B - 1/2" (12.7mm) tubing, consisting of pump, reservoir and radiator.

I think I may just stick with 10mm for all of it...

Tom, it was the aesthetics I was considering, it might look a bit wierd having 10mm tubing from the back of the pc to the external rad and back again.

 

[S_I_N]

why flow sensors and temp sensors??? they just tacky up the look of the loop. you can easily monitor temps with programs/apps

 

[tinytomlogan]

why flow sensors and temp sensors??? they just tacky up the look of the loop. you can easily monitor temps with programs/apps

+1 this

 

[Mysterae]

why flow sensors and temp sensors??? they just tacky up the look of the loop. you can easily monitor temps with programs/apps

Good question, of which there are a number of answers . Ah, justification...

1. For control of the pumps "response curve", i.e alternate the speed of pump according to the temperature/load.
2. To find the optimum balance in fan and pump speed with the load and noise in mind, autonomously.
3. To ensure the system is responding to those changes.
4. Monitor the flow, i.e. over time (has it degraded in months) or has the pump failed, time to flush and change coolant, clean filters etc. You might think it's time to change coolant but the numbers tell you.
5. Because I like to mess around with tech and configure it; it's a pastime.
6. I like to monitor my system.
7. I take pride in my builds, so when I do it I go balls out
8. Because I can and I want to (don't you just hate that phrase!).

Of course none of this is required if you just want to water cool, I just want to go a step further.

 

[tinytomlogan]

Good question, of which there are a number of answers . Ah, justification...

1. For control of the pumps "response curve", i.e alternate the speed of pump according to the temperature/load.
2. To find the optimum balance in fan and pump speed with the load and noise in mind, autonomously.
3. To ensure the system is responding to those changes.
4. Monitor the flow, i.e. over time (has it degraded in months) or has the pump failed, time to flush and change coolant, clean filters etc. You might think it's time to change coolant but the numbers tell you.
5. Because I like to mess around with tech and configure it; it's a pastime.
6. I like to monitor my system.
7. I take pride in my builds, so when I do it I go balls out
8. Because I can and I want to (don't you just hate that phrase!).

Of course none of this is required if you just want to water cool, I just want to go a step further.

Youre over thinking it and are going to make it look pants

 

[Mysterae]

Youre over thinking it and are going to make it look pants

Will you make a video of you eating pants if it's not?

We shall see if it's pants or not.

To be honest Tom, I expected more encouragement from a like-minded soul. There are more ways than your way or the highway.

 

[airdeano]

really?

question ask/answered and reasons.. plus more.

 

[alpenwasser]

why flow sensors and temp sensors??? they just tacky up the look of the loop. you can easily monitor temps with programs/apps

+1, as temps are really the only thing that matters in the end for monitoring your loop's performance. However, that doesn't mean all curiosity can be satisfied with just that .

Youre over thinking it and are going to make it look pants

You could still hide it out of sight if there's enough room.

As for the original question: I'd recommend going with 1 size of tubing. Just makes things simpler and cleaner. Although if you mix 16/10 with 16/13 it would probably be hard to tell (at least with non-transparent tubing). But 16/10 and 19/13 would look a bit awkward imho.

 

[Mysterae]

In the end I decided to change the external tube size because I couldn't find any quick disconnects the right size. It actually paid dividends as the quick disconnects I changed to are better .

The change in tube size isn't that dramatic; inside the case will be 8/10mm copper pipe and external to the case will be 10/13mm clear flexible tubing.

A picture may explain my madness:

The only iffy part in my plan is the connection between the pump/res and the radiator. It's going to be physically awkward with flexible tubing so the copper pipe may be better. I'll try both and see what I prefer.

Perhaps Tom is right and I am over-thinking it, not that I've been accused of that before . I'm thinking of starting a project log on my progress, not done one of those for a long time. The planning stage is now over :rock:.

 

[jamesriley94]

Will you make a video of you eating pants if it's not?

We shall see if it's pants or not.

To be honest Tom, I expected more encouragement from a like-minded soul. There are more ways than your way or the highway.

In the end I decided to change the external tube size because I couldn't find any quick disconnects the right size. It actually paid dividends as the quick disconnects I changed to are better .

The change in tube size isn't that dramatic; inside the case will be 8/10mm copper pipe and external to the case will be 10/13mm clear flexible tubing.

A picture may explain my madness:

The only iffy part in my plan is the connection between the pump/res and the radiator. It's going to be physically awkward with flexible tubing so the copper pipe may be better. I'll try both and see what I prefer.

Perhaps Tom is right and I am over-thinking it, not that I've been accused of that before . I'm thinking of starting a project log on my progress, not done one of those for a long time. The planning stage is now over :rock:.

External pump, rads and res - along with multiple water temp sensors...?

...Don't expect a video from Tom anytime soon

 

[alpenwasser]

Judging from that pic, you seem to be putting quite a bit of work into the planning stage

I would certainly be interested in that build log, you don't see too many external
setups these days, would be something different for a change. Plus: Copper tubing! :rock:

 

[Mysterae]

External pump, rads and res - along with multiple water temp sensors...?

...Don't expect a video from Tom anytime soon

I did chuckle, I'm sure Tom will appreciate the work if not the concept!

Judging from that pic, you seem to be putting quite a bit of work into the planning stage

I would certainly be interested in that build log, you don't see too many external
setups these days, would be something different for a change. Plus: Copper tubing! :rock:

Indeed I have been planning for a while. It's about getting things right, saving up, the justification, and having the time; I'm sure you and many others are the same. I admit, I wavered slightly and almost got another 670 for tri-sli instead of the watercooling, but the all-out watercooling stuff would still be an itch to scratch. Another 670 is still an option way in the future as I think the watercooling has the headroom.

I really like my case (FT02) but it's a git for watercooling. Sure you can shoehorn a 360 rad in there but not without compromises. An external HFR (Huge Fooking Radiator) was my only option! I'm looking forward to seeing how the case cools when almost all the heat sources are removed.

I agree, copper pipes :rock:!

 

[alpenwasser]

Indeed I have been planning for a while. It's about getting things right, saving up, the justification, and having the time; I'm sure you and many others are the same.

I can sympathize

I really like my case (FT02) but it's a git for watercooling. Sure you can shoehorn a 360 rad in there but not without compromises. An external HFR (Huge Fooking Radiator) was my only option! I'm looking forward to seeing how the case cools when almost all the heat sources are removed.

Ha! I was guessing it was an FT02 from the picture :rock: And I agree, it is an
absolute beauty. I take it you don't want to have an internal triple 180 radiator,
then? Since that's usually the standard setup for an FT02. Although as
mentioned, an external HFR is something different for a change (I used to
run a Mora myself, and still have it. Might use it in a ghetto build or something ).

You gotta do what's right for you. If an external setup meets best your needs,
then there's nothing wrong with that. Good planning and execution can still be
done, and if somebody does not like it so be it.

Best of luck

EDIT: Forum activity seems a bit low atm, it appears most people are out watching
the 900D review :lol:

 

[airdeano]

ive seen 8 builds using the aquaero system, 3 are complete, 4 still building and
yours in planning.

just my opinion, the amount of money sunk into their completions and not have
more control over fans and temperature looked to be overkill. two are incorporating
RBG lighting and adding more roadblocks to finishing the system. for the "extra"
cabling, equipment, and hardware deffo made making a tidier look a lil more "difficult"
or just more busy or bulky. for a light-out operation or redundancy in protection
this could be a way to go, but for 4-12hr productivity/gaming machines way overboard.
but that is just an opinionated observation (and attempt from earlier experiences)
from using proper fan/radiator combinations and accepting chassis limitations of
"usable" spaces.

 

[alpenwasser]

for a light-out operation or redundancy in protection
this could be a way to go, but for 4-12hr productivity/gaming machines way overboard.

IMO (so yes, also merely an opinion/observation ), the aquaero from a purely
technical point of view is pretty marvelous. But they are so hilariously complex
due to their almost infinite capabilities that few people who have one actually
use them to their full potential (or anything even remotely close).

For me personally, I might consider one if their software (Aquasuite) were
available on Linux, but in the end I don't really need the AE's capabilities at all.

My rig runs at 100% pretty much 24/7 (BOINC), so conditions are stable and
don't change often. I can monitor H/W temps via the O/S, and in case of an
emergency the temperature protection of the M/B will shut off the rig anyway.

A manual fan controller (I will use the Lamptron FC5v2 for my next rig, which
has enough power to also control D5 pumps) is absolutely sufficient for me and
does not require as much work to set up as something like the Aquaero. I just
need to turn a knob every few months when seasons change.

Also, a simple knob fan controller is a lot less prone to bugs. Either it works
or it does not. If you have a read around Aquacomputer's forums there are
tons of posts related to bugs in their software, which is not surprising taking
into account its complexity. But the more complexity you add to any system,
the more points of failure you are adding. One of our professors used to
constantly go on about this

I'm still wary about interfacing my cooling system with my software and O/S,
there's just so much room for bugs and configuration errors.

Anyway, /ramble.

 

[Mysterae]

Fair comments from both of you.

I've taken my time with planning to ensure that I know what to get, so I don't delay the mod part way, waiting for parts. I like to have everything in my possession so that when I start, I can finish.

I have seen many builds with Aquaero's, one in particular took almost 3 years to put together! That says more about the person building it than the equipment (too busy, bitten off too much etc). Sure, most users won't utilise 100% of the Aquaero and that is their choice I guess. I won't use 100% of it either but I do know what I'll use it to do. It'll be a learning curve and interesting to tweak and get right.

The whole concept of watercooling is overboard when air cooling will suffice.

Every project has aims and ambitions, and I've listed a few in post 7 of this thread, but I also wonder... .

- what is the ideal balance of pump speed and fan speed, while keeping temperatures and noise in check?
- how efficient is the radiator given a particular load, considering the question above?
- is the coolant really at one equilibrium temperature within the loop? (always a favourite ).

I want to find these things out for myself, for my system. It's about personalisation. It's also about the progression of watercooled pc's. Time for something slightly different.

Thinking outside of the box .

 

[alpenwasser]

I won't use 100% of it either but I do know what I'll use it to do. It'll be a learning curve and interesting to tweak and get right.

It's great for tweaking and playing around and stuff, as I said, the possibilities
are (almost) endless. If I ever had the money for a purely experimental w/c
build, I would probably get an AE just for playing around with it. But most
likely not for a production rig.

Then there's still the whole windows problem, of course

The whole concept of watercooling is overboard when air cooling will suffice.

True. Most of the time, air cooling will suffice. I do W/C because I like
tinkering with it and it looks awesome :rock:

- is the coolant really at one equilibrium temperature within the loop? (always a favourite ).

Can't be, thermodynamically impossible. However, it can be beyond the
sensitivity of your measuring equipment so that you won't pick up any temp
differences

Regardless, go ahead and measure, I intend to do this myself in my current
build. Curiosity and stuff :headscratch:

I want to find these things out for myself, for my system. It's about personalisation. It's also about the progression of watercooled pc's. Time for something slightly different.

Thinking outside of the box .

I'm all for that. It's just that sometimes "thinking outside the box" can appear
as "not knowing what they're getting into" (even if they do), which will of
course be reflected in any advice given (quite a few people who get the
Aquaero seem to not really be aware of just how complex and overkill for
their needs it actually is). But you seem to not be one of those people,
so I wish you best of luck and am looking forward to what you'll do.

EDIT: 666 posts, is that good or bad? :lol: