AMD's Hawaii might be more powerful than advertised

[barnsley]

This was later proven a hoax. Do not take this as fact.
I saw this the morning on other sites and I thought I should probably mention it here. Basically a website called "DG's Nerdy Story" has said it has the die shot of the Hawaii GCN. What has got people interested in it is the fact that the plan has more texture mapping units and stream processors than what is in the 290/290x.

Here is the data on the 290 and 290x vs the supposed full Hawaii:

290x: 2816 stream processors, 176 texture mapping units
290: 2560 stream processors, 160 texture mapping units
hawaii diagram: 3072 Stream prossors, 192 Texture Mapping Units

If the plan is accurate could this mean that AMD are either holding back for the release of the GT 8XX series release or they have something that they would place against the 780Ti. Please be aware that at time of writing AMD have not commented on this and it should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Source:
DG's Nerdy Story (article from the plan was taken from )

 

[SeekaX]

If the plan is accurate could this mean that AMD are either holding back for the release of the GT 8XX series release or they have something that they would place against the 780Ti.

or it could be that the full chip would burn your entire rig to ashes. i suppose this isn't intended for consumer use, much like the full GK110 was originally not supposed to be used for that.

 

[WYP]

It's a similar story for the PS4 and XB1 chips, adding an additional bunch of gpu cores does increase AMD's yield of usable GPUs or APUs.

We will either see a later AMD R9 295X or 290XT or something with the extra cores enabled if their production yields allow it or see a die-shrunk version in their r9 300 (likely 380x) series with all 3072 cores enabled.

This is provided that this is true though, this is all speculation ATM.

 

[barnsley]

or it could be that the full chip would burn your entire rig to ashes. i suppose this isn't intended for consumer use, much like the full GK110 was originally not supposed to be used for that.

Yep. TBH if they create a fully unlocked GPU AMD better get someone else to do the cooling.

 

[SeekaX]

Yep. TBH if they create a fully unlocked GPU AMD better get someone else to do the cooling.

in general they might even be better off letting others do the cooling, what's the point of having a reference cooler if it's utter garbage.

 

[loglog]

or it could be that the full chip would burn your entire rig to ashes. i suppose this isn't intended for consumer use, much like the full GK110 was originally not supposed to be used for that.

LMAO :lol:

 

[grassman]

or it could be that the full chip would burn your entire rig to ashes. i suppose this isn't intended for consumer use, much like the full GK110 was originally not supposed to be used for that.

The 780ti gets just as hot, Its the cooler that sucks.

Also something nobody ever seems to mention, The VRAM on Nvidia GPU's run to god damn hot.

 

[QuietOne]

I can picture it now.

Person 1 "Do you have orange LED's in your rig?"
Person 2 "No, That's my new fully unlocked GPU glowing"

 

[SieB]

The 780ti gets just as hot, Its the cooler that sucks.

Also something nobody ever seems to mention, The VRAM on Nvidia GPU's run to god damn hot.

No one seems to mention anything bad when it comes to Nvidia.

Flowers shoot out of Nvidia's ass but everything AMD do is bad. Fair enough the stock cooler for the 290s are a steaming pile of crap but with aftermarket coolers and watercooling the temps and noise are the same.
Apparently, the Asus DCUII 290x is still considered as running hot even though it runs just as hot as a 780Ti. Yet people are still saying the DCUII 290x is still hot and loud and the 780Ti is cool and quiet :lol: go figure.

 

[SeekaX]

No one seems to mention anything bad when it comes to Nvidia.

what's with the constant bashing for the higher prices? seen complaints about the drivers as well. both teams take shit all the time.

Flowers shoot out of Nvidia's ass but everything AMD do is bad. Fair enough the stock cooler for the 290s are a steaming pile of crap but with aftermarket coolers and watercooling the temps and noise are the same.
Apparently, the Asus DCUII 290x is still considered as running hot even though it runs just as hot as a 780Ti. Yet people are still saying the DCUII 290x is still hot and loud and the 780Ti is cool and quiet :lol: go figure.

watercooling is kinda irrelevant when comparing noise and temps, i mean which card is ever hot or loud when under water.
the DCUII is a great cooler, dealt with the noise issue for sure, but the temps are still a tad hotter than a reference 780ti, it's odd when an aftermarket cooler can not achieve what the reference cooler of the opposing team does.
i must admit that i am not really digging AMD anymore after the 7950 disaster, it will take some time until i'll forgive that, but i really can't be arsed anymore to forgive things like horrible reference cooler only releases (still don't get what the point of that was) or the 6 month delay (tell me whatever you want about release schedules, releasing half a year after the competition is only reasonable when you then stomp them, which AMD didn't do), just for the sake of supporting the underdog and kicking nvidia in the balls.
some people have a good attitude about things and forgive a lot, some don't. no need to explain where i am standing.

 

[grassman]

VRAM that's clocked so High it causes display driver failures

Thumbs up! Nvidia

 

[SieB]

what's with the constant bashing for the higher prices? seen complaints about the drivers as well. both teams take shit all the time.

Well the prices are stupid high, a non ref 780/290 are £380-£400. Non ref 780Tis are £600-£630, that's £200-£250 more for on average around a 10% performance increase. That's 50% the price for 10% of the performance, real value right there.

Nvidia don't get as much flac for their drivers compared to AMD either, AMD haven't had bad drivers for ages but Nvidia have had bad drivers for around a year now.
People have problems on both sides with drivers, but when it's AMD it's made more of a deal of than when it's Nvidia.

watercooling is kinda irrelevant when comparing noise and temps, i mean which card is ever hot or loud when under water.

That's the point, apparently the 290 is a bad card for underwater compared to the 780....

the DCUII is a great cooler, dealt with the noise issue for sure, but the temps are still a tad hotter than a reference 780ti, it's odd when an aftermarket cooler can not achieve what the reference cooler of the opposing team does.

Well for one the 290 runs hotter and uses more power than the 780Ti so temps aren't going to be the same. The 7xxx series AMD cards all run hotter and louder than the 6xx and 7xx series Nvidia cards. The same as the previous gen AMD and Nvidia cards did as well, yet all of a sudden things are different and AMD are bad for having higher temps.
People use the argument that the Nvidia cards are cool and quiet, even the reference ones. Yet when the DCUII 290x comes around it's still slated for being hot and loud even though it's as hot and loud as a 780Ti, which they praise for being cool and quiet?
Hypocritical much? how can one be ok and the other not, when they are the same?

It's always the same story over and over, no matter what AMD do it's always made to look bad and whatever Nvidia do is always made to look good.

 

[Zoot]

Regarding the 290X "melting" the rest of the system...

The power consumption of both reference cards is pretty much same (give or take a few watts), as per this chart. Hence the heat production of both cards is going to be similar, hence the effect on the rest of your case is going to be the same with either card.

**

Point being, the 290X is no worse than the 780Ti when it comes to putting heat into the rest of your case.

No one seems to mention anything bad when it comes to Nvidia.

Flowers shoot out of Nvidia's ass but everything AMD do is bad.

Yeah, and it actually gets kind of tiresome tbh.

** I'd use Tom's results for power draw but... stupid flash.

 

[SeekaX]

Nvidia don't get as much flac for their drivers compared to AMD either, AMD haven't had bad drivers for ages but Nvidia have had bad drivers for around a year now.

i can only give my personal experiences of 2013 here, i had 3 7950s, a 670ftw and a 770, so i had quite the go at all of the drivers.
All 3 7950s had issues in cod4, quake and bad company 2 and not the forgivable type. i tested 5 different drivers. the only thing AMD cards are good for anymore imo are new games and benchmarks. i had a 6870 before which was flawless, i've got no idea why people say their products got better. the 670FTW turned out to be damaged, got the 770 which is going flawless for half a year now.

People use the argument that the Nvidia cards are cool and quiet, even the reference ones. Yet when the DCUII 290x comes around it's still slated for being hot and loud even though it's as hot and loud as a 780Ti, which they praise for being cool and quiet?
Hypocritical much? how can one be ok and the other not, when they are the same?

i think there was one person in the 290x dcuII thread that said the 290x isn't tamed, so that's a bit over exaggerating.
it wouldn't matter if AMD was a bit hotter, the 290x was 95c at release, you can't expect that to go unpunished. that is still in people's heads.
you try to make the issue less than it is, yes the 290x is tamed, but it's an aftermarket cooler which usually have way better results, which was the case with the 7xxx series!

It's always the same story over and over, no matter what AMD do it's always made to look bad and whatever Nvidia do is always made to look good.

lately i've seen a lot of reviewers sucking AMD's thumb. and even those who don't, i can't blame them. nvidia provides the rounder package, AMD is dragging behind.
whenever the 290x is in discussion the fingers always only point towards the performance charts and the price, there's more to a gpu than that.

 

[SieB]

i can only give my personal experiences of 2013 here, i had 3 7950s, a 670ftw and a 770, so i had quite the go at all of the drivers.
All 3 7950s had issues in cod4, quake and bad company 2 and not the forgivable type. i tested 5 different drivers. the only thing AMD cards are good for anymore imo are new games and benchmarks. i had a 6870 before which was flawless, i've got no idea why people say their products got better. the 670FTW turned out to be damaged, got the 770 which is going flawless for half a year now.

I have never had a problem with any of AMD's drivers in the 4 years I have had a AMD GPU, and I have updated to each new set of drivers on release including Beta drivers. Over 4 years that is a hell of a lot of driver updates and not a single problem with any of them. And that's on 3 different AMD GPUs on two different sets of CPUs and 3 different motherboards and other hardware configs over the last 4 years.

People have bad experiences with drivers from both Nvidia and AMD but not all people have problems. Thing is shit happens and it's not always Nvidia or AMD who are to blame, if it was soely the drivers that were the problem then everyone would have the same problems. People don't all have the same problems with drivers and like me some never have any problems at all, C'est la vie.

i think there was one person in the 290x dcuII thread that said the 290x isn't tamed, so that's a bit over exaggerating.
it wouldn't matter if AMD was a bit hotter, the 290x was 95c at release, you can't expect that to go unpunished. that is still in people's heads.
you try to make the issue less than it is, yes the 290x is tamed, but it's an aftermarket cooler which usually have way better results, which was the case with the 7xxx series!

Not just on here, i'm talking about from various places across the net. This may be the only forum I post on but I read many others and read a lot of articles, reviews and peoples first hand experiences on other forums and review sites etc. And people being ignorant to the fact that on water and with aftermarket cooling they run just as cool and as quiet as the Nvidia counter parts is what i'm getting at. They run around slating them still, even though they are just as good. Even some of the ones who are aware, still consider them bad cards even though they are just as loud and just as hot.

This is what I mean by people making everything AMD do seem bad but what Nvidia do seem good.

lately i've seen a lot of reviewers sucking AMD's thumb. and even those who don't, i can't blame them. nvidia provides the rounder package, AMD is dragging behind.
whenever the 290x is in discussion the fingers always only point towards the performance charts and the price, there's more to a gpu than that.

Out of all the reviews i've read, and i've read all the ones out there, i've seen no sucking AMDs thumb. All I have gotten from them is that the only problem with the 290 originally was the cooler. That problem has been solved and now performance, temps and noise are the same as the Nvidia counterparts.

The reason people point out charts is because people seem to ignore these fact and still refuse to acknowledge that the cards they praise for being cool and quiet are now just as good as the AMD ones.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I can picture it now.

Person 1 "Do you have orange LED's in your rig?"
Person 2 "No, That's my new fully unlocked GPU glowing"

Wouldn't they have to be shouting to hear each other over the cooler?

Unless it works like mine, in which case the fan would be at about 30% (at which speed it's not that loud) the temps would be at about 94/95ºC and it'd be throttling it's balls off...

 

[SeekaX]

I have never had a problem with any of AMD's drivers in the 4 years. That's on 3 different AMD GPUs on two different sets of CPUs and 3 different mother boards and other hardware configs over the last 4 years.

personal experiences shape our opinion.

And people being ignorant to the fact that on water and with aftermarket cooling they run just as cool and as quiet as the Nvidia counter parts is what i'm getting at. They run around slating them still, even though they are just as good. Even some of the ones who are aware, still consider them bad cards even though they are just as loud and just as hot.

the DCUII is still over 80 degrees without any overclocks, the cards temperatures aren't even with aftermarket coolers. can't compare the DCUII to the reference cooling design of nvidia, if you compare it, then to the aftermarket cooling solutions of nvidia cards and those results are irrelevant because the card overclocks itself till it hits 80 degrees anyways, which the 290x doesn't do. also the amount of people watercooling is so small, it's pretty much irrelevant to the quality of the card. it's sad to see that the card pretty much needs watercooling to be in its comfort zone.

Out of all the reviews i've read, and i've read all the ones out there, i've seen no sucking AMDs thumb. All I have gotten from them is that the only problem with the 290 originally was the cooler. That problem has been solved and now performance, temps and noise are the same as the Nvidia counterparts.

there was a lot of "HURR DURR TITANKILLER" shouting when the card released.

The reason people point out charts is because people seem to ignore these fact and still refuse to acknowledge that the cards they praise for being cool and quiet are now just as good as the AMD ones.

nobody ignores performace charts and to be honest it's a bit too late to get me on the amd bandwagon of equality. 6 months till they could compete, 8 months till it even made sense to consider their high end card and they haven't even got the performance crown, not to mention that your praised DCUII 290x is only barely cheaper than a 780ti, which still would be the better investment.
if you directly compare what nvidia and AMD put out nvidia does the better job, i can't justify rewarding sloppiness and dragging behind just because nvidia is sitting on a high horse. yea their cards are overpriced, but they can afford it, what's the competition doing? nothing.

 

[barnsley]

The 290/290x will forever be known as a hot card. Thats the way things are with anything that AMD makes that isn't completely 100% perfect on launch and its the same case with Nvid, to some extent. I have to say though, the internet isn't 100% pro Nvidia. Occasionally AMD do something fantastic (e.g. the 7870 Tahiti) and it gets very good reviews and a good reception from everyone.

I almost wonder if the 780 has the same issues if its equipped with that stock Nvidia cooler (No not the fancy one, this is the one I'm talking about ).

there was a lot of "HURR DURR TITANKILLER" shouting when the card released.

Wasn't that the same with the 780 and the 780ti? Either way the only real shouting was AMD's marketing department, who as everyone knows are idiots.

not to mention that your praised DCUII 290x is only barely cheaper than a 780ti, which still would be the better investment.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-341-SP&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1752
Custom cooled 290x that'll OC very well and hits 70c normally. Still a good bit cheaper than the 780Ti and thanks to the OCing potential, is only just under the 780Ti, usually only 5-10fps off. Search for Kitguru's review of it, I believe they said its only slightly under Palit's custom cooled Ti.

 

[SeekaX]

Occasionally AMD do something fantastic (e.g. the 7870 Tahiti) and it gets very good reviews and a good reception from everyone.

true that, the 7870LE was genius. which is the reason why they killed it, their 7950 sales must have crashed.

I almost wonder if the 780 has the same issues if its equipped with that stock Nvidia cooler (No not the fancy one, this is the one I'm talking about ).

isn't the fancy cooler the nvidia stock cooler? that model must be EVGA's blow cooler, because nobody else uses anything that looks like it.

 

[SieB]

nobody ignores performace charts and to be honest it's a bit too late to get me on the amd bandwagon of equality. 6 months till they could compete, 8 months till it even made sense to consider their high end card and they haven't even got the performance crown, not to mention that your praised DCUII 290x is only barely cheaper than a 780ti, which still would be the better investment.
if you directly compare what nvidia and AMD put out nvidia does the better job, i can't justify rewarding sloppiness and dragging behind just because nvidia is sitting on a high horse. yea their cards are overpriced, but they can afford it, what's the competition doing? nothing.

Lol, it's not my praised DCUII 290X at all. I'm not praising anything, all i'm saying is that people are being ignorant to the fact it's just as quiet and just as cool.

And there is a big difference in price between the Asus DCUII 290X and lets not forget the increase in price of AMD cards due to Bitcoin miners.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-330-AS&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1752

And the Asus DCUII 780Ti

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-332-AS&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1402

£130 more for 10% more performance?

All I am getting from your comments is your bias based on your bad experiences with AMD and personal preferences rather than on the cards themselves.