AMD's Hawaii might be more powerful than advertised

[SieB]

From all the graphs and videos I've seen so far the 290X has a higher temp than the 290, Unless we're talking aftermarket cooler variations.

I know it's only 2'c but it's still a difference ^_^

The temp difference is so small it's not worth the mention, but we are talking about aftermarket coolers.

it changes a whole lot, it changes the entire mentality behind the purchase, i look at what both teams do and then i consider which team deserves my money the most. i don't care if i have 20 euros less in my pocket if it goes to the team that did the better job.
you are degrading me to an nvidia fanboy, which isn't even correct. just 2 days ago i gave a friend of mine the go ahead to build a 280x rig, i advised a bunch of people to get a 7870LE, heck i even loved my 6870, i do acknowledge that AMD are the better option for people who are tight on the money and are only interested in the newest stuff, but their business decisions and their technological advancement in the high end business don't deserve my money at the current point in time.
8 months and aftermarket cooling to get in between the best and the second best card of the competition is no achievement.

It changes nothing on a card vs card basis, whether it's one month or one year if the cards are as fast, loud and hot as each other then that is all you should be looking at regardless of brand.
I'm done talking BS with you, all the facts are there accept them or not, the facts are facts.

 

[WYP]

I didn't think putting a cooler designed for an Nvidia chip on to an AMD chip would work, Explains the heat difference.
Hope they come out with one actually designed for the 290/X.

It's a good design so if it works why fix it, it's already way better than the stock cooler.

In general most companies will use very similar coolers for both AMD and Nvidia, there is the Windforce x3 modifications for use on the 290x.

all there is a direct contact plate, i guess if ASUS used one it wouldn't be Direct CU.

the only vendors that make properly specific coolers for designs are amd or nvidia specific like sapphire and evga

 

[Dicehunter]

The temp difference is so small it's not worth the mention, but we are talking about aftermarket coolers.

I know I'm nitpicking here but with some of the very high end enthusiats, 2'c can be a buy or no buy number

 

[barnsley]

This is still going on?

Sapphire make the best coolers for AMD products. While they're not as quiet as the DCU II they're much more powerful. The Toxic 280x is the best AMD card you can buy bang for buck in my opinion. The Toxic 290x also seems to be the best performing 290x/290 thus far. Then again Sapphire have custom designed the toxic coolers to work with just their respective cards so you'd hope that'd be the case. I know HIS have made a custom cooled 290/290x but its a brown color and I've not heard anything about it.
Everyone here can agree the AMD stock coolers were a dumb idea and they shouldn't have tried to do what Nvidia did with the Titan. In an ideal world the 780ti and the 290x would be neck and neck (much like the 770 and the 280x). This would encourage either side to do excellent drives and encourage manufacturers to make some excellent 'cards.

As I said earlier, people are forever going to bang on about how the 290x runs hot, even with fantastic coolers. What worries me more is that I keep seeing jokes/rumors about a 290x2. I honestly wouldn't put it past AMD at this point.

 

[Dicehunter]

no that was directed at me i am pretty sure.

Still, It's not a nice thing to say to a fellow forum member

 

[jamesriley94]

Still, It's not a nice thing to say to a fellow forum member

Very true.

Everyone here needs to calm down. There's certainly no need for most of the things that have been said here. You can put your point across without being rude or directly attacking other members.

The mods will be watching this thread. Be careful what you say.

 

[Tripp]

the argument is still invalid because the nvidia cards overclock themselves till they hit the thermal limit, the only way to prevent that is watercooling, the normal 780ti maxed out at 71 degrees.

my 780 maxes out at 80c

 

[Noz_God]

Why is it when anyone starts a AMD or Nvidia thread its starts a bitch fight lol

 

[Dicehunter]

Why is it when anyone starts a AMD or Nvidia thread its starts a bitch fight lol

Because there are a lot of sad people in the world.

 

[barnsley]

Why is it when anyone starts a AMD or Nvidia thread its starts a bitch fight lol

Welcome to OC3D. You should've seen the last AMD VS Nvidia 'Discussion'. Same arguements, same people.

 

[looz]

Most people here are perfectly aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the brands, and it always ends up being an argument about priorities.

 

[SieB]

Welcome to OC3D. You should've seen the last AMD VS Nvidia 'Discussion'. Same arguements, same people.

More like this is the internet.

And this wasn't about AMD vs Nvida, this was about pointing out peoples ignorance when it comes to the facts.

No matter how much I told Seekax about the facts he kept on denying them and even after showing him proof he still didn't accept them.

Now if someone keeps telling you that you are wrong even though you know you are right. Even after showing them proof and they still tell you you are wrong, are you going to sit there and not say anything? I think not.

 

[SeekaX]

More like this is the internet.

And this wasn't about AMD vs Nvida, this was about pointing out peoples ignorance when it comes to the facts.

No matter how much I told Seekax about the facts he kept on denying them and even after showing him proof he still didn't accept them.

Now if someone keeps telling you that you are wrong even though you know you are right. Even after showing them proof and they still tell you you are wrong, are you going to sit there and not say anything? I think not.

i told you the temps aren't the same because there still is a small difference, if they were the same then the 290x should've had better temps than the 780ti in some reviews.
i don't support AMD because i think it's wrong to reward the worse team and they undeniably are. me denying your equality argument is just the same as you ignoring the timescale difference between releases and that the 290x disappointed in performance for the extra time it needed.

 

[SieB]

i told you the temps aren't the same because there still is a small difference, if they were the same then the 290x should've had better temps than the 780ti in some reviews.
i don't support AMD because i think it's wrong to reward the worse team and they undeniably are. me denying your equality argument is just the same as you ignoring the timescale difference between releases and that the 290x disappointed in performance for the extra time it needed.

And still you can't accept the facts.

The timescale means nothing and what is this crap about AMD being the worse team?

This is about card vs card and not petty Fanboy crap like "AMD is the worse team" what are you 12? This isn't about teams or picking sides, this is about one card vs the other and in this case it's the non ref 780/Ti and 290/X and the fact they run just as hot and loud as each other. How you can use the excuse that the Nvidia cards would run cooler if they didn't OC themselves I do not know? if they didn't overclock themselves then they would be slower than the AMD cards.

The 780Ti is faster than the 780 and 290/x but it's also 50% the price for 10% of the performance.

The 780/Ti 290/X are just as good as each other, why are you even trying to deny it when the proof is out there? The 780 and 290/x are faster in some games and but slower in others, doesn't really matter which one you go for unless one performs better in certain games you play.

Stop with the stupid b-but AMD this and b-but Nvidia that, facts are the facts and they are there for all to see. What this comes down to is your dislike for AMD.

 

[barnsley]

i don't support AMD because i think it's wrong to reward the worse team and they undeniably are. me denying your equality argument is just the same as you ignoring the timescale difference between releases and that the 290x disappointed in performance for the extra time it needed.

Each is better in different circumstances. Currently Nvidia have the Super high end graphics card bit while AMD have budget. Middle range, the 280x/770 is too close to call. Don't get me started on dual GPU cards either.

 

[SeekaX]

And still you can't accept the facts.

The timescale means nothing and what is this crap about AMD being the worse team?

This is about card vs card and not petty Fanboy crap like "AMD is the worse team" what are you 12? This isn't about teams or picking sides, this is about one card vs the other and in this case it's the non ref 780/Ti and 290/X and the fact they run just as hot and loud as each other. How you can use the excuse that the Nvidia cards would run cooler if they didn't OC themselves I do not know? if they didn't overclock themselves then they would be slower than the AMD cards.

The 780Ti is faster than the 780 and 290/x but it's also 50% the price for 10% of the performance.

The 780/Ti 290/X are just as good as each other, why are you even trying to deny it when the proof is out there? The 780 and 290/x are faster in some games and but slower in others, doesn't really matter which one you go for unless one performs better in certain games you play.

Stop with the stupid b-but AMD this and b-but Nvidia that, facts are the facts and they are there for all to see. What this comes down to is your dislike for AMD.

the timescale is irrelevant? are you kidding me? they provide the same nvidia did 8 months ago and that doesn't matter? see the full picture mate, being 8 months faster than the competition means that they are pretty much a monopoly, the only reason AMD is still in the GPU business is that nvidia is more expensive. if nvidia would slash their prices then AMD would be gone, luckily they aren't allowed to become a monopoly.

your 50% more expensive argument is completely irrelevant, the 290x is overpriced as hell compared to the 290 as well, which is overpriced compared to the 280x. same on nvidia's side. if you buy parts in the high end market you are always aware that the price/performance ratio isn't exactly great, not to mention that the 290x isn't half the price of the 780ti either, it's 4/5 of the price.

you only look at benchmarks and at the current point in time, i look at where nvidia and AMD are going to be in the future and where they were, considering the competition between the 7xxx and the 6xx series this generation of AMD's cards is a failure. if the next generation is going to be late like the last one then AMD's fate is in the hands of nvidia.

stop degrading me to a fanboy, no matter how often you say it, doesn't make it true. it's just a cheap trick to make my argument seem irrelevant.

 

[SieB]

the timescale is irrelevant? are you kidding me? they provide the same nvidia did 8 months ago and that doesn't matter? see the full picture mate, being 8 months faster than the competition means that they are pretty much a monopoly, the only reason AMD is still in the GPU business is that nvidia is more expensive. if nvidia would slash their prices then AMD would be gone, luckily they aren't allowed to become a monopoly.

So when Nvidia were late with the 4xx, 5xx and 6xx series (three generations in a row) and playing catchup, that was different to AMD being behind with the 290? Not to mention Nvida and AMD have always released cards at different parts of the year from each other.

If Nvidia slashed their prices so would AMD, in most cases Nvidia have to slash their prices to stay competitive with AMD because people know they are better bang for the buck. You think they slashed the price of the 780 just for the fun of it?

your 50% more expensive argument is completely irrelevant, the 290x is overpriced as hell compared to the 290 as well, which is overpriced compared to the 280x. same on nvidia's side. if you buy parts in the high end market you are always aware that the price/performance ratio isn't exactly great, not to mention that the 290x isn't half the price of the 780ti either, it's 4/5 of the price.

I meant the 290 and 780 not the 290x but it's still 25% more expensive than the x for 10% the performance.
And it's still 50% the price of a 290 or 780 for 10% the performance.

How can you not see that as being a bad thing is stupid.

you only look at benchmarks and at the current point in time, i look at where nvidia and AMD are going to be in the future and where they were, considering the competition between the 7xxx and the 6xx series this generation of AMD's cards is a failure. if the next generation is going to be late like the last one then AMD's fate is in the hands of nvidia.

Yes I am looking at benchmarks in this current point in time because that is all that matters. These cards are competing with each other and not with cards coming in the future. When AMD and Nvida have cards out from the next round of cards then I will focus on benchmarks from those cards at that point in time and only between those cards.

And competition between the 7xxx and 6xx? AMD's cards are failures? I think you will find that the 7950 is faster than a 650Ti or around the same, the 7970 is faster than a 680 and a 7990 is faster than a 690.
If not by much AMD's 7xxx series are better than Nvidia's 6xx series, but both lot of cards are good cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

Not to mention AMD R7, R8 and R9 series are better than Nvidia's 770, 760 and below.

Yet again you are ignorant to the facts.

stop degrading me to a fanboy, no matter how often you say it, doesn't make it true. it's just a cheap trick to make my argument seem irrelevant.

If you are not a fanboy why are you coming out with all this crap about AMD being the worst team, sounds pretty fanboyish to me. You have a dislike for AMD and it is clear to see, you refuse to accept facts and continue to come out with crap to defend Nvidia and discredit AMD.

You are making this about AMD vs Nvidia when all I was doing was making about cards vs card.

You are a fanboy, or you are doing a great job of sounding just like one.

 

[Ciric]

the timescale is irrelevant? are you kidding me? they provide the same nvidia did 8 months ago and that doesn't matter? see the full picture mate, being 8 months faster than the competition means that they are pretty much a monopoly, the only reason AMD is still in the GPU business is that nvidia is more expensive. if nvidia would slash their prices then AMD would be gone, luckily they aren't allowed to become a monopoly.

your 50% more expensive argument is completely irrelevant, the 290x is overpriced as hell compared to the 290 as well, which is overpriced compared to the 280x. same on nvidia's side. if you buy parts in the high end market you are always aware that the price/performance ratio isn't exactly great, not to mention that the 290x isn't half the price of the 780ti either, it's 4/5 of the price.

you only look at benchmarks and at the current point in time, i look at where nvidia and AMD are going to be in the future and where they were, considering the competition between the 7xxx and the 6xx series this generation of AMD's cards is a failure. if the next generation is going to be late like the last one then AMD's fate is in the hands of nvidia.

stop degrading me to a fanboy, no matter how often you say it, doesn't make it true. it's just a cheap trick to make my argument seem irrelevant.

Please tell me one thing:
How does the release date of AMD's cards, have any influence on the performance, looks, noise or tempeture, of a card Nvidia have allready released?
The answer is NONE! Thus the release date of the Hawaii gpu's is totaly irrelevant.
The only thing that matters, is which cards are availble NOW! If I am to use an amount of money, I look which card give me the best value, (including looks, temps, noise ect). But the release date of the cards have no impact on either of those!

Any other argument regarding company X's R/D got done before the others ect ect, are nothing but fanboys throwing shit at eachother!

 

[SeekaX]

So when Nvidia were late with the 4xx, 5xx and 6xx series (three generations in a row) and playing catchup, that was different to AMD being behind with the 290? Not to mention Nvida and AMD have always released cards at different parts of the year from each other.

If Nvidia slashed their prices so would AMD, in most cases Nvidia have to slash their prices to stay competitive with AMD because people know they are better bang for the buck. You think they slashed the price of the 780 just for the fun of it?



I meant the 290 and 780 not the 290x but it's still 25% more expensive than the x for 10% the performance.
And it's still 50% the price of a 290 or 780 for 10% the performance.

How can you not see that as being a bad thing is stupid.



Yes I am looking at benchmarks in this current point in time because that is all that matters. These cards are competing with each other and not with cards coming in the future. When AMD and Nvida have cards out from the next round of cards then I will focus on benchmarks from those cards at that point in time and only between those cards.

And competition between the 7xxx and 6xx? AMD's cards are failures? I think you will find that the 7950 is faster than a 650Ti or around the same, the 7970 is faster than a 680 and a 7990 is faster than a 690.
If not by much AMD's 7xxx series are better than Nvidia's 6xx series, but both lot of cards are good cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

Not to mention AMD R7, R8 and R9 series are better than Nvidia's 770, 760 and below.

Yet again you are ignorant to the facts.



If you are not a fanboy why are you coming out with all this crap about AMD being the worst team, sounds pretty fanboyish to me. You have a dislike for AMD and it is clear to see, you refuse to accept facts and continue to come out with crap to defend Nvidia and discredit AMD.

You are making this about AMD vs Nvidia when all I was doing was making about cards vs card.

You are a fanboy, or you are doing a great job of sounding just like one.

what? i never said the 7xxx series did bad, i said the 7xxx series was competing well with the 6xx series because it released a tad earlier and because the performance was equal or even a bit better. i was comparing the competition between the 7xxx/6xx and the r9 2xx/7xx series and said that they've lost and awful amount of time and therefore time to compete, which is terrible for a company. so much for ignoring the facts.
nvidia produced an equal or even slightly better product in way less time, that makes them the better manufacturer for this generation, what has that got to do with being a fanboy?
the 780 would've never been so expensive for such a long time if it hadn't been for AMD being late. very late. far later than nvidia was with the 6xx series. the reason for nvidia slashing their prices is because they finally had to.
for the argument of AMD releasing at a different time and that all being normal, it is not. here is how it is supposed to be when one company releases at a later point in time. (percentages do not represent the market, just an example)
May: Company 1: 100% performance
November: Company 2: 150% performance
May: Company 1: 200% performance
November: Company 2: 250% performance

and here is how it happened this year:
May: Company 1: 100% performance
November: Company 2: 100% performance

that is not being competitive, that is not a reasonable cycle, that's just being late.

you wouldn't employ a worker either that takes 8 months longer to produce an equal product over another worker who demands a bit more money but is a lot faster.

 

[SieB]

what? i never said the 7xxx series did bad, i said the 7xxx series was competing well with the 6xx series because it released a tad earlier and because the performance was equal or even a bit better. i was comparing the competition between the 7xxx/6xx and the r9 2xx/7xx series and said that they've lost and awful amount of time and therefore time to compete, which is terrible for a company. so much for ignoring the facts.
nvidia produced an equal or even slightly better product in way less time, that makes them the better manufacturer for this generation, what has that got to do with being a fanboy?
the 780 would've never been so expensive for such a long time if it hadn't been for AMD being late. very late. far later than nvidia was with the 6xx series. the reason for nvidia slashing their prices is because they finally had to.
for the argument of AMD releasing at a different time and that all being normal, it is not. here is how it is supposed to be when one company releases at a later point in time. (percentages do not represent the market, just an example)
May: Company 1: 100% performance
November: Company 2: 150% performance
May: Company 1: 200% performance
November: Company 2: 250% performance

and here is how it happened this year:
May: Company 1: 100% performance
November: Company 2: 100% performance

that is not being competitive, that is not a reasonable cycle, that's just being late.

you wouldn't employ a worker either that takes 8 months longer to produce an equal product over another worker who demands a bit more money but is a lot faster.

You seem to be basing this on only this generation of cards, during the AMD 4xxx, Nvidia 4xx and AMD 5xxx/6xxx, Nvidia 5xx it was the other way around with Nvida being behind. In fact the 480 situation is basically the same as the 290 one.

At one point in time AMD will behind and Nvidia will be infront and vice versa. It's how it has been for years and most likely how it will be in years to come.
Just because AMD was late with the 290 doesn't mean they will be late with other cards or that Nvidia wont be either.