Starting a new mini-ITX build...

SnowmanFromHell

New member
Hello :)

As I already threatened in my introductory thread I'm starting a new build that you should feel free to comment on to help me improve ^_^

First, though, a bit of a background: I'm currently using an approximately six year old laptop which is starting to get a bit long in the tooth. It's a C2D T9300 (2x2.5GHz, 6MiB cache, 65nm process node (Penryn)), 4GiB RAM, Radeon 2600M and a 15.4" 1440x900 screen. It has served me well, but I feel it is now more than time to upgrade.

The new rig should offer better performance (who would have guessed, eh?) and - equally importantly - it should be quiet (the laptop gets very hot so I run it on one of these cooling pad thingies... which is infuriatingly loud :mad:). It will also need to fit in the limited amount of space I currently have available, and if the system is cheap that would be nice as well. Oh, and one last thing: I want to get into water cooling, so... guess what that means for the build ;) The system will be used for a bit of everything, some light gaming, occasional photo editing, running a VM every once in a blue moon, and the usual web surfing and other "could be run on a better pocket calculator"-stuff.

My current plan is a mini-ITX system which I'll build in two stages: build the system (air-cooled) first, then add some water later. At least, that's the plan... which might be changed, depending on your comments :)

For the components, I currently lean towards the following:
  • CPU: AMD A10-7850K
  • RAM: 16 GiB, not sure about exact specs yet, though
  • MB: GIGABYTE GA-F2A88XN-WIFI
  • Case: BitFenix Phenom
  • PSU: Silverstone SST-ST55F-G Strider Gold Series 550 Watt + short cable kit
  • Storage: 250 GiB Samsung 840 EVO
  • Monitor: Dell P2014H (20", 1600x900, IPS)

Now, before you get all "omg n00b system, get a 4960X/4-way Titan SLI/massive RAID6 array instead", let me explain my choices a bit:
The CPU should be powerful enough for my needs (considering I'm upgrading from a mere C2D it will still be quite a significant step up), and the GPU should also suffice for my gaming needs. And because I'm interested to see what the whole HSA stuff is about, having that is a nice bonus (I develop software for a living, so I'll probably write some code to play around with that, just for the fun of it :) ).
Regarding the RAM: yeah, 16 GiB is probably overkill, but seeing my current machine struggling when I'm running VMs I'd rather get too much than having the system slow to a crawl. Currently planning to get Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400, not sure though whether the system benefits more from slower RAM with faster timings or from faster RAM with slower timings. Any thoughts/hints/... ?
The mainboard looks pretty solid, and since the selection of mITX-sized FM2+ boards is rather limited I might as well take that one :)
The PSU should easily be enough considering I don't have a dedicated GPU planned, and even if I were to put one in I wouldn't get a high-end one (I'd probably get an R7 250, which can be used for dual GPU mode according to AMD). I chose this particular PSU because it's modular and only 140mm long, so it should fit the case easily. Short cable kit to keep the rig tidy.
The monitor obviously needs to fit where I plan to put it, so I can't get a huge one... 20" should fit, resolution is good enough (and it means higher frame-rate than FullHD), and you can use it in portrait orientation :)
Any thoughts/suggestions/tips so far?

Water cooling will be a second step, currently I'm planning to go with mostly alphacool stuff (monsta 240mm rad (P/P), VPP655 (i.e. D5 vario) pump with modified pump top, nexxxos xp³ cpu block, HF 38 cape cyclone 150 res), but I'll have to see how/if that fits into the case, maybe I'll have to use a thinner rad or a smaller res.

Whew, ok, quite the wall of text there, hope it's not too much at once.

Now feel free to tell me what I forgot / what could be improved / what you'd do differently :)

SfH

P.S.: I know it's not really a build log yet, so if this is the wrong section please do tell me ... or just directly move the topic where it belongs. Thanks :)

Edit: changed PSU from Corsair CS450M to the SilverStone one, which is fully modular, also 140mm, and has the option of using shorter cables. Thanks to NeverBackDown for the tip :)
 
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I like it. I mean you don't need to post some high-end pc. Most of us love pc's in any way or form. And if you can make it nice to the eye and working correctly I don't see anything wrong.
Though I would suggest maybe going for the 550w, as it will not get as hot => les fan spinning => les noise.
Also be carefull, fat rads make a lot of noise when the air moves through it, because it vibrates more in between the fines. :)

Mathias

Edit: consider me subbed, I'm curious :)
 
Why are you using GiB? Its just GB... (yes I am aware GiB actually exist though).

Build looks fine but may want extra storage if your running a bunch of VMs. Also i would consider a higher end PSU but everything else looks fine.
 
Why are you using GiB? Its just GB... (yes I am aware GiB actually exist though).

Force of habit I guess :)

Build looks fine but may want extra storage if your running a bunch of VMs. Also i would consider a higher end PSU but everything else looks fine.

Hmm... storage should suffice for now, I only keep a few VMs on local storage, most are stored on an external HDD and only copied to local storage when I need them.

What do you mean with higher end PSU? Higher end = more power (e.g. the 550W unit) or higher end = e.g. an AX series PSU?
The problem with PSUs from other series (looked at the RM and AX series as well as some Seasonic ones) is that they are usually at least 160mm long, which would be a pretty tight fit and I'm not too keen on having to force the PSU in... any good PSUs you can recommend that are 140mm?
 
Higher quality PSU is what i meant. Here is probably the perfect PSU for you. Tom did a review on it as well!

Shame on me, I remember having watched that vid when Tom put it up and thinking "I definitely should keep that one in mind"... and then I still forgot about it :lol: Thanks for reminding me, I'll change the PSU to the 550W Strider Gold with the short cables, should make the rig a little tidier :)
 
Any one of the series of the PSUs in the video will do the trick. Probably the best option for you with space limitations but also high quality.
 
Also, as I always say, the 750k is a fantastic little cpu and its excellent little value.
You could pick one up and pair it with a 750ti for around the same price.
 
Would be better long term and easier to upgrade

Well... Upgrades aren't really that important with this rig... I'm not saying I'll throw it out as soon as I've moved to a bigger apartment, but it basically is an interim solution that will be replaced with a more powerful full-sized ATX system once I have more space (which hopefully happens within the next ~6 months)

Also, as I always say, the 750k is a fantastic little cpu and its excellent little value.
You could pick one up and pair it with a 750ti for around the same price.

Hmm... the main appeal of the APU is playing around with HSA... even if your suggestion is more powerful, I still tend towards the APU, especially because if I got a graphics card I'd have to water-cool that as well (OCD and all, you know? :/ )

Gah... after NeverBackDown's posts I thought I was basically set, now I'm all confused and thinking again... Maybe I should get a MVI Impact + 4670K + R9 280 or 770 :confused:
You guys are terrible, I had successfully convinced myself a not-so-powerful rig would be enough, now I'm thinking about getting a more powerful system again :lol:
 
Well really the others are suggesting different ways to spend your money. In all honesty i see no point whatsoever in spending money for a temporary solution. Mine as well wait, save the money, and get something even better sooner.

Just find what your needs are. According to your first post, your needs are very low and therefore imo i do not feel you need to go anything higher than what has been suggested so far.
 
Higher quality PSU is what i meant. Here is probably the perfect PSU for you. Tom did a review on it as well!



TBH matey the 160mm unit will fit a prodigy or anything based on it fine.

The silverstone will only be better if you buy the shorter cables but tbh the RM series is insanely quiet and I would rated the performance much more over these Silverstone units.

The only time I would recommend the silverstone would be for the shorter cables tbh dude and if you bought the MATX version its almost needed

Id personally recommend taking a look at the RM450 if I were you :)
 
TBH matey the 160mm unit will fit a prodigy or anything based on it fine.

The silverstone will only be better if you buy the shorter cables but tbh the RM series is insanely quiet and I would rated the performance much more over these Silverstone units.

The only time I would recommend the silverstone would be for the shorter cables tbh dude and if you bought the MATX version its almost needed

Id personally recommend taking a look at the RM450 if I were you :)

Well, actually the RM450 was the first PSU I had in mind.
Then I read some reviews of the Prodigy and on Anandtech they mentioned not being able to get a modular 160mm PSU in, so I started looking for a 140mm one.
When NeverBackDown suggested the Silverstone one, I looked at the review of that thing on techpowerup, and while it's not in the same class as the Corsair or Seasonic ones it's not über-terrible at least.
In your Prodigy video (just went back and watched it again) you said there's 180mm of room for the PSU, so you'd say that's enough for a fully modular 160mm PSU? 'Cause I'd still like to get a Corsair/Seasonic PSU if I'm honest :)

... Mine as well wait, save the money, and get something even better sooner. ...

Noooooo... now I'm questioning whether I should actually start the build at all... thinking about putting the whole project on hold :lol: Not sure my trusty laptop will survive long enough, though...
 
As Tom said any PSU will fit fine, but you need to be careful with the cable management. I only recommended the Silverstone PSU because i knew you could also get the short cable kit(which i forgot to mention and tanks tom for reminding me) which would make things uber tidy.

You could build now but i was only saying no point in buying a temporary solution when in a few months you will be spending more. If you have all the money now then go for it:)
 
Well, actually the RM450 was the first PSU I had in mind.
Then I read some reviews of the Prodigy and on Anandtech they mentioned not being able to get a modular 160mm PSU in, so I started looking for a 140mm one.

just get a Dremel out (if you have one) and cut the back of the PSU housing open so you have access to the entire rear of the PSU
 
just get a Dremel out (if you have one) ...

*problem detected* :p
But yeah, thought about that as well, especially after seeing that the newer cases based on the Prodigy have a different PSU compartment (as can be seen in some of the pictures in the Colossus review for example).

Edit:
You could build now but i was only saying no point in buying a temporary solution when in a few months you will be spending more. If you have all the money now then go for it:)

Well, that one planted quite the nagging doubt in my mind... Just had a look at the 4670k + MSI Z87I Gaming AC... together with an R7 260X that would be only about 250 bucks more than my initial build, and it would last me a lot longer I guess... oh god, my indecisiveness is killing me :lol:

The next question if I were to go Intel would be: If, going forward, I'd be adding water cooling, would a 240mm rad (either 60 or 80 mm thick) be enough to cool the CPU and GPU?
The i5 has a rated TDP of 84W, the 260X has 115W, so I'd be looking at pretty exactly 200W TDP that I'd need to cool with a 240mm rad...
For reference: that's about as much as a single R9 290... would it be possible to cool such a card (or my system) with a single 240mm rad?
 
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Update: project is temporarily on hold :/
I'm currently thinking about getting a system that will last me longer, current choice of components I'm thinking about is 4670k, MSI Z87I Gaming, R9 270X in an Aerocool Cube DS, into which I could later add two rads (180mm in the front + 280mm in the top) to cool the CPU as well as the GPU.
Thoughts?
 
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