QA'ing Bundle Sellers

[Master&Puppet]

Hi folks,

For a long while now I have had issues (I'm sure I'm not the only one) with the 'pre-built' computing world. Particularly the overclocked bundle world which seems strewn with cowboys selling poorly optimised components with often dodgy settings.

There are of course exceptions to this and several reliable retailers out there who produce good quality overclocked systems and bundles with a warranty and to be honest I don't particularly take issue with people who pay a little bit more for that guarantee and a certain level of quality.

So i typed in 'overclocked' into eBay and picked a random vendor. In this case I ended up with Components4all ltd. This is their webshop:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/components4allltd

From here I chose an i5 3570K overclocked bundle (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Overclock...K_Motherboards_CPUs&hash=item1c268b7abc#rpdId). Beyond the ridiculously heavy use of technical jargon, which a large majority of people won't have a clue about, I pulled out the following specs:

3570K @ 4.6GHz
ASUS p8z77-V LX2
8GB corsair XSM3 1600
Thermaltake Contac CPU cooler

It is available for £329.99 at the time of writing which is roughly the same as you would pay at retail prices if you bought the stuff yourself and shopped around for deals.

My impressions: decent CPU, basic motherboard (still z77, so good), 1.65v RAM which is needlessly high really but good quantity and speed. The bits that really interested me I've highlighted in bold. 4.6GHz on a £20 cooler. I find this highly unlikely unless they have access to unlimited golden chips (more than 10 of these bundles are available at the time of writing). So I've asked the seller a few questions:

Hi,

I am interested in this item but I have several questions about it:

1. Firstly what setting have you adjusted to get the 3570K to 4.6GHz? That is an impressive clock given the cooler and I would like to know what voltages you set in BIOS (particularly the vcore).

2. Secondly I'd like to know what stress testing methods this item has gone through, the names of programs used, the settings used and the duration of the testing.

3. I'd also like to know the maximum core temperature(s) reached during the test (and which test this was measured under). I'd also like to know the delta to which you work to so that I can equate it to my room temperature.

4. Lastly, obviously overclocking voids Intel's warranty and your listing suggests that you provide a 3 year return to base warranty. What exactly does that cover?

Many thanks

To be fair to them they have an excellent rating on eBay - however since these ratings are almost always written within a few days after the purchase you won't see any "after the first month it no longer switches on" or any other such reviews. Neither does it give any indication of the quality of customer service beyond that period. eBay's rating falls very short in this regard and it is very much based on 'fire and forget' business.

I await the response and will update when I get I have more

M&P

 

[remember300]

oooh snap ... how long till they try to get your comment removed or claim a mis-type on their behalf ...?

 

[WillSK]

actually looking forward to seeing what comes back to this . One thing you didn't mention though is how much this bundle would cost the misinformed consumer

 

[SeekaX]

this thread could become hilarious. i'll stick around.

 

[Master&Puppet]

oooh snap ... how long till they try to get your comment removed or claim a mis-type on their behalf ...?

I'm fully expecting no response at all to be honest. In that case I will have to make my own assumptions I guess

actually looking forward to seeing what comes back to this . One thing you didn't mention though is how much this bundle would cost the misinformed consumer

Added to the OP

 

[Mark3Max]

This should be interesting .
I don't see how they can guarantee a 4.6 overclock when it sounds to me like it's just a parts bundle ( motherboard , processor , memory and a thermaltake air cooler). I have a feeling you probably know more about it than they do.
Keep us posted if you get a response from them.

 

[Master&Puppet]

So here is the response from them, I'll let you have a read before I say what I think:

Hi,

1 - All overclocks are slightly different, you will get a settup thats been overclocked and tested at 4.4Ghz to 4.6Ghz, as some CPUs perform differently to others.

2 - All overclocked bundles go through several testing programs in our production departement to ensure that they are stable when they are taken off. For instance some CPUs will not have the tolerance to be overclocked that far, so we will sell them in our stock speed systems etc. Main programs we use are Prime, Heaven, Bit, OCCT etc etc

3 - The temp can reach as far as late 90's but the CPUs have a feature in them so that if a CPU every hits 105 they automatically downclock so a CPU can never be damaged. In fact we have never had a faulty intel CPU - as the cooler keeps them well under this cuttoff temp. We sell around 200 bundles and PCs every week, so rest assured we know what we are doing and you will get a safe and stable overclocked bundle.

4. Overclocking doesnt invalidate the warranty, these CPUs have been designed by Intel to be overclocked, the 3570 is the 'K' edition which intel have brought out to be overclocked. There is a 3 year warranty, but like I said we havent had one fail yet so you really have nothing to be concerned about.

Hope this helps

- components4all-ltd

Firstly I was pleased to see that they responded at all. I was asking some pretty specific questions, although dumbed down as best I could, and I feared that they might smell a rat. As it turned out they responded the same day and didn't entirely avoid the questions (which was another of my concerns).

So, point by point:

1: 4.4-4.6GHz not 4.6. You are spot on the money Mark3Max. I've checked the advert and I have not seen any mention of a range of clock speeds you may or may not receive.

2: It is good to see the names of familiar programs but with out the specific settings like the stress level and duration (which I did ask for) it is impossible to verify what kind of stability you'd get.

3: No specific mention of what temperature they work to but the fact they talk about "late 90s" and "automatically downclock so a CPU can never be damaged" is a huge concern to me regarding degradation.

4: Outright lie. This is a quote from the bottom of Intel's Product and Performance Information section on their Unlocked Processor page:

"1. Warning: Altering clock frequency and/or voltage may: (i) reduce system stability and useful life of the system, processor, and other system components; (ii) cause the processor and other system components to fail; (iii) cause reductions in system performance; (iv) cause additional heat or other damage; and (v) affect system data integrity. Intel has not tested, and does not warranty, the operation of the processor beyond its specifications."

That is of course why they setup the Tuning Plan...

Let me be straight here. I have no like or dislike for this company. They are just a random sample I pulled off the web. It maybe that they have never had a faulty product due to their testing - I can only go by their word but I am far from convinced, however that does remain my personal opinion.

What I do have a problem with are the vendors as a whole. Take two identical adverts both claiming to sell identical 4.6Ghz bundles with 1866 RAM. Most people would choose the cheapest bundle right? But who is to say that you actually get what you pay for? Very few people out there will have the knowledge and understanding to download tools like CPU-z or go into BIOS and have a look themselves. So you could buy a 4.6 bundle and actually get 4.4. You can buy 1866 RAM with the bundle but who is to say that the vendor has actually bothered to setup the RAM to run at that overclocked speed (RAM modules will default to 1600 on Ivy for example)?

Then there's a whole host of missold 'gaming rigs' which market themselves with i7 processors and cheap GPUs when it should be the exact opposite. I think the major cause is the large amount of jangon which is just baffling to most people. Look at the name of the current generation CPUs:

Intel Ivy Bridge i5 3570k quad-core 3.4-3.8Ghz (socket 1155).
AMD Piledriver FX-8 8350 8-core 4.0GHz (socket AM3+).

It's a load of rubbish and marketing to the general public who would then go on to buy the AMD chip because "it must be better, it runs faster and has twice as many cores".

I really wish that there was even an attempt at some form of standardisation to make parts more easily comparable. The job of reviewers is incredibly important but I think a lot more needs to be done.

 

[remember300]

im amazed they replied. i am also shocked that they openly admit that you are not getting 4.6 even though they quote this. and those temps are terrible!!!!
you should never push the cpu to 90 ... and rely on a downclock ... an they can quote the stress testers but no proof is given. if i bought a machine from them ... which i wont id want print outs after 24 hours of it being loaded. at with a sticker staying the cpu clock and directions on how to find it minimum

 

[SPS]

This is interesting, are you going to reply?

 

[Damien c]

I love it when people don't tell you the Temp's that cpu's run at and don't even bother to mention the fact that overclocking does void the warranty, unless you buy the Tuning Plan that they offer.

 

[Master&Puppet]

Yea it's not an ideal situation for the consumer and the problem with this kind of work in the market is that it encourages other business to cut corners too. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and whilst I wouldn't suggest buying an Alienware machine...you can and still should pay a reasonable fee for quality. Of course building it yourself is a great option but there aren't many of us enthusiasts around so it is reasonable to have this in the market.

This is interesting, are you going to reply?

I thought about it but wasn't planning on it. I never really intended it to become a witch hunt and I already feel that I've been a little deceptive by posting it all here. It was more of an exercise to illustrate impressions I had of the market. I'd love to stitch up every company that did this kind of stuff but if I wanted to take it further I think I'd have to buy a bundle or PC from them.

 

[SPS]

Yh I personally wouldn't reply back if I was you, however, I'm not comfortable with them claiming there is a 3 year warranty that isn't there to customers..