Pushing it a bit?
- Thread starter Bladehawk
- Start date
That's exactly the point. It's hard to say how good the 7000 series actually are from an architectural point of view until you have something to compare it to, which is kepler.
So yes, for now AMD have the better card(s). But that was to be expected with a shrink to 28nm. It's going to be interesting to see how nvidia reacts. And i hope they're not going to rush things just to get a slightly bigger e-penis out when they could get a proper e-schlong.
oneseraph
New member
Lets not be too hasty, In many ways the Southern Islands aka Radeon HD 79xx series of cards does exceed expectations. For instance the HD 7970 delivers far more than just performance numbers that trounce previous generations of GPU's. The fact that the card is 25%-40% faster while being 30%-35% more power efficient is quite an accomplishment. If we than add to that what can only be described by anyone who is being honest as very impressive list of new features implemented at the hardware level. It is not hard to see the many ways in which these cards have exceeded expectations.
Now that does not mean I think they should be using words like "humiliating" to describe the competition even if it is true and the competition has said far worse. I personally find such thing in poor taste no matter where it comes from.
As for how well Nvidias Kepler architecture "GTX 6xx series" preforms relative to the Southern Island "HD 79xx series" remains to be seen. I will say that I hope Nvidia can deliver something competitive because that will help to drive pricing down. My hoping for something rarely makes it so, Nvidia have a very heavy lift in front of them and there is absolutely no guaranty that they will pull it off. Time will tell and I wish Nvidia the best. For now though I will give credit where it is due. Hats off to AMD, The Radeon 7970 is quite an impressive accomplishment and the new single GPU champion.
oneseraph
New member
To be fair the GTX 6xx cards do not exist. Therefore they are not currently competition. In order to compete you have to be able to enter the race. The only competition for the HD 7970 is the GTX 5xx cards and of those only the dual GPU GTX 590 can outperform the HD 7970. The GTX 580 however gets soundly trounced.
Again it will be interesting to see what happens when Nvidia fire back with GTX 6xx in late May or early june. For the next five or six months AMD have the the Top single GPU card on the planet.
SieB
New member
Maybe "humiliate" is a strong word but it's just marketing. And I wish to god people would get it in to their heads that the AMD that does CPUs is not the AMD that does the GPUs, yes, they are the same company but they are two completely different departments and AMDs GPU department formerly know as ATi have always been strong.
AMDs biggest mistake was dropping the ATi branding because people see the name AMD and automatically their thoughts are on not so good CPUs and Bulldozer. The current AMD 5 and 6 series is competitive with Nvidias 5 series go look at benches there really isn't that much of a difference. The 580 does beat the 6970 but the 6970 is also £100 cheaper so also take that in to consideration. Also, yes they do run a bit hotter and are slightly louder but how can you put AMD down for that after the disgrace of the Nvidia 4 series or has everyone forgotten how loud and hot they were?
I really don't understand where people get this idea from that Nvidia is somehow superior, yes they have the 580 which before now was the superior card but the few years before the 5 series ATi were in the lead.
For some reason that has all been forgotten and for some reason just because Nvida have had one good series of cards all of a sudden it's OMG NVIDIA IS THE BEST!!!!!!!
Except before that it wasn't true, nothing but rebrands and cards with ridiculously high power draw and temps. And while that was happening we had ATi pushing the GPU market coming out with new advancements and better cards.
As for the 600 series who knows how much better they will be, no one but Nvidia knows they haven't even got sample cards out yet, whether or not they are better we will see but at least wait and see before jumping to conclusions.
AMDs biggest mistake was dropping the ATi branding because people see the name AMD and automatically their thoughts are on not so good CPUs and Bulldozer. The current AMD 5 and 6 series is competitive with Nvidias 5 series go look at benches there really isn't that much of a difference. The 580 does beat the 6970 but the 6970 is also £100 cheaper so also take that in to consideration. Also, yes they do run a bit hotter and are slightly louder but how can you put AMD down for that after the disgrace of the Nvidia 4 series or has everyone forgotten how loud and hot they were?
I really don't understand where people get this idea from that Nvidia is somehow superior, yes they have the 580 which before now was the superior card but the few years before the 5 series ATi were in the lead.
For some reason that has all been forgotten and for some reason just because Nvida have had one good series of cards all of a sudden it's OMG NVIDIA IS THE BEST!!!!!!!
Except before that it wasn't true, nothing but rebrands and cards with ridiculously high power draw and temps. And while that was happening we had ATi pushing the GPU market coming out with new advancements and better cards.
As for the 600 series who knows how much better they will be, no one but Nvidia knows they haven't even got sample cards out yet, whether or not they are better we will see but at least wait and see before jumping to conclusions.
To say they "Don't exist" is hyperbolic at best, they're not at market yet. And you're being a touch short sighted, yes they only have the 500 series to compete with for a few months but the 7000 series will have been made to go against the 600 series - The series of cards it will share the majority of it's lifespan with.
Similarly, the 600 series wont have been made to take on the 6000 series of cards, no business will willingly pit their newest tech against already-dated tech, thats a sure fire way to get trounced by their competitors newest tech. You don't aim behind your opponent, you aim in front of them.
I still think it's too generous to say that AMD have exceeded expectations at this point, the die shrink was expected to bring higher performance and lower power ratings, They have met expectations, not exceeded them. They haven't just scraped through by any means, but i'm not flabbergasted at the numbers either.
alienware
Banned
thestepster
New member
course its 2 far, this is meant to be there flasgship 28nm single gpu? ouch cause it only goes down from here then whats keplar going to bring it might end up with the boots on the other foot and AMD get another complete mauling and honestly they really cant afford it after the bulldozer debacle
alienware
Banned
oneseraph
New member
So you are accusing me of hyperbole.
Well lets start with the facts. The Nvidia Kepler Architecture taped out the GK107 in mid September 2012. this isn't the flagship GK100 we are all waiting for. Instead, NVIDIA is executing a bottom-to-top release, first releasing a smaller chip, GK107, which will find its way into notebooks. GK107 engineering samples are out now, with production samples due in January 2012 if all goes well. The GK100 or to put it more accurately the part that is supposed to compete with the HD 7970 has not taped out yet. That means that the part does not exist. It also means that on a good day down hill in a hurricane Nvidia might get them to market by the end of the second quarter. Though if the part dose not tape out by the end of this quarter that will likely be pushed back to the third quarter of 2012.
In electronics design, the “tape out” term is used to describe the final result of the design cycle of a chip and means that the integrated circuit can be sent to the foundry for manufacturing the first physical samples. These will then go through a number of revisions as the design is further refined to eliminate any potential flaws that made their way into the integrated circuit.
This is usually a pretty lengthy process, so if Nvidia doesn't face any problems with the A0 silicon of the GK107, these should become available sometime in April of 2012. But as I pointed out above the GK107 is for the notebooks not for enthusiast desecrate graphics cards.
Of course technology companies compare the performance of their new product against existing products. That gives them known metrics to test against. For example our new product is 30% faster than our competitor current flagship product. That is an objective way to measure performance. To try to aim in front of your competitors unreleased an non existent product is complete nonsense. I mean where would you get the performance metric. I suppose you would ask your competitor to tell you what they are up too. Well, you see the problem aiming in front of that is aiming at a constantly moving target.
As for your notion that AMD has not exceeded expectation, maybe you had the full list of features they planned to implement in their new architecture. Sure we all expect performance improvements and even power reduction. With that said the list of features AMD implemented is both quite large and unexpected. Well, you see my point.
sheroo
New member
The impression that I get from some is that AMD can't win no matter what they do. The gpu's are moving in the right direction, while the cpu's kinda aren't. From a consumer pov we have new gpu's every 6 months or so - whats not to like. Its not about the crown is about value for money, don't forget that most of us live in a little tech bubble.
More people drive a Ford than a Bugatti....
More people drive a Ford than a Bugatti....
yassarikhan786
New member
Competition is healthy. We don't want one company dominating the market i.e. Monopolies are not good for us.
Rastalovich
New member
Wish people got this worked up about tax levels and things that really mattered.
If someone disagrees with you (any of you) don't take it so much as a personal slite. This happens far too much.
Any side of a *political* argument can produce figures, *facts*, that can *prove* they're the best and correct.
If someone disagrees with you (any of you) don't take it so much as a personal slite. This happens far too much.
Any side of a *political* argument can produce figures, *facts*, that can *prove* they're the best and correct.
yassarikhan786
New member
FTFY and that is an accurate representation of a lot of debates you see on forums, lol.
Azurite
New member
Good example to what many of us are working against. Best thing is to be friendly and if people go over the line, its best to just tell them in a mature way or even report it to admins. Im glad its not to mutch of that shit going on here at oc3d.
SieB
New member
I hope no one took what I said in this thread personally (or any other thread)
I get passionate about things and i'm the type of person that if I have something to say, I say it, I don't mean it rudely when I do i'm just saying what I personally believe.
Others are free to do the same and everyone is different, just because I, or you think something is right doesn't mean everyone else does but just because I express my opinion doesn't mean i'm being nasty or rude. After all this is a forum and a forum is a place to discuss different views, ideas and opinions.
The only thing I have problem with is when people make something out to be what it's not without knowing all the facts or because of fanboism.
In this case that would be Nvidia and making out AMD (the GPU side) is shit when that is not true at all, I have already explained about that in earlier posts in this tread so i'm not going to say anymore on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbiWK_LqrcM&feature=related
I get passionate about things and i'm the type of person that if I have something to say, I say it, I don't mean it rudely when I do i'm just saying what I personally believe.
Others are free to do the same and everyone is different, just because I, or you think something is right doesn't mean everyone else does but just because I express my opinion doesn't mean i'm being nasty or rude. After all this is a forum and a forum is a place to discuss different views, ideas and opinions.
The only thing I have problem with is when people make something out to be what it's not without knowing all the facts or because of fanboism.
In this case that would be Nvidia and making out AMD (the GPU side) is shit when that is not true at all, I have already explained about that in earlier posts in this tread so i'm not going to say anymore on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbiWK_LqrcM&feature=related
yassarikhan786
New member
S_I_N
New member
I too think its way to soon to say any humiliation has happened. I'm still not sure why AMD is launching high to low versions instead of low to high as all have done previously. If I garnered a thought imho it would seem that only their top card is capable of beating Nvidia's current top. Whats to happen when Nvidia launches say a 660 or lower card and it outperforms the 7970??? Again just a thought but it has me pondering. I think apples should be compared to apples and so on. Comparing a new tech card to old tech is not imho the way to go about it. I personally think AMD launched top end card first so it could have the crown even if for a short while. I may be wrong and hopefully AMD proves me wrong. I truely like to see competition helps us end users in the long run as then they have to price accordingly. When you have one company busting up the other as with intel/amd cpu's then you have one company setting its own price to fatten their wallet more than anything else.
Ghosthud1
New member
i buy whats best for my money at the time, green or red i couldnt care less, if the £ per frame is within my reach and the feature set is as i desire i seriously couldnt care less.
Marketing should be ignored if you are true to your hobby, i ignore everything in the sense of marketing because its 110% biased in every shape and form.
numbers is what i look for and this thread is clearly pointless.
the world is full of misdirecting marketing, because the mass majority of people are so blinded they dont see the truth behind it, and then are mindlessly getting sheeped into purchasing the goods.
Marketing can never really go to far in humain terms, you want to sell your goods right.......you will never see a company say "just slightly better then that last gen card" its unheard of.
Marketing should be ignored if you are true to your hobby, i ignore everything in the sense of marketing because its 110% biased in every shape and form.
numbers is what i look for and this thread is clearly pointless.
the world is full of misdirecting marketing, because the mass majority of people are so blinded they dont see the truth behind it, and then are mindlessly getting sheeped into purchasing the goods.
Marketing can never really go to far in humain terms, you want to sell your goods right.......you will never see a company say "just slightly better then that last gen card" its unheard of.
