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[NeverBackDown]

I agree but if it was me Id not make loads of stuff and hand the designs over to anyone else. Thats like doing homework for the thick kids.

I agree with that to an extent, however the way Nvidia goes about it is they actually forbid the game devs to allow anyone who is not affiliated with Nvidia's program to access their software. Which means AMD cannot actually optimize or fix any issues they might have when games are using Nvidia software, which really in the end makes it only playable on one vendor. This is shown because all the past gameworks titles, excluding Witcher 3(thats credit to CDPR though) every Gameworks supported title has issues with AMD GPUs. Now if Gamedevs were allowed to show AMD the source code but not actually hand it over to them, then I wouldn't be defending AMD. But that's not the case. Add in the fact that all AMDs software features are open source and Nvidia has access to, really shows how shady and greedy Nvidia is that they won't even allow AMD to fix bugs that are introduced because of Nvidia's software. Any other place in the industry and they work together to fix things. Not the case with GPUs. Nvidia are truly the equal to Apple when it comes to things like this. It's a shame to be honest.

 

[Tolemac]

I'm still rocking my Vapor X and loving it I for one will support AMD because Dice is right we actually need a competitor in the market as an end user who sent his GTX970 back over the vram issue I will not support Nvidia no matter how much better they think they are ^_^

 

[Mysterae]

Fair reasoning ...

I waited for AMD to deliver with the Fury X, put off my purchase for weeks in the hope that this time it would be AMD again (I've had 9800, x1800's, X1900's, 4870 in the past). They quite simply failed on numerous fronts (not as fast as we were led to believe, un-overclockable, stock issues, not a good choice for custom watercooling).

In this world you either do or die; it's not up to the consumer to save a company, they must save themselves first. AMD will not be saved by the righteous few, it's not the Athlon days any more.

Anyway, Dicehunter did say in his post that people may think he was nuts, I was just saying he was correct .

 

[Dicehunter]

Nvidia are truly the equal to Apple when it comes to things like this. It's a shame to be honest.

I've never really looked at Nvidia in that light before but now that you mention it I do see the similarity.

 

[NeverBackDown]

I waited for AMD to deliver with the Fury X, put off my purchase for weeks in the hope that this time it would be AMD again (I've had 9800, x1800's, X1900's, 4870 in the past). They quite simply failed on numerous fronts (not as fast as we were led to believe, un-overclockable, stock issues, not a good choice for custom watercooling).

In this world you either do or die; it's not up to the consumer to save a company, they must save themselves first. AMD will not be saved by the righteous few, it's not the Athlon days any more.

Anyway, you did say in your post that people may think you were nuts, I was just saying you were correct .

Not as fast as the hype made everyone think it would be.. It is overclockable(not even AMD who is responsible for this at launch), is a good choice for watercooling. Just buy the block and remove the AIO. Stock issues were because one part of the supplier chain wasn't producing fast enough. However that has since been fixed and higher mass production has been started.

But again you are proving my point from earlier. People view AMD as a negative, like you just did with their downsides. However what about the good? Hmm? What about the new memory architecture? The vastly improved performance/watt? The ability to keep a hot core cool? The improvements to their color algorithms? And more? I don't see anyone giving them a thumbs up from consumers.. all I see is everyone bashing them because they believed the hype and it wasn't faster than a TX. I for one never thought it would be.

It is not up to the consumer, you're right. However it is in this case when a company who has done everything right and just as great as the other company is being treated like crap and no one cares, that's consumer fault. That's why consumers need to think with their brains for once. I may be on the wrong side here choosing AMD, however at least I tried to keep them afloat for as long as I could support them and tried to keep a monopoly from forming. That's what matters to me the most.

FYI, I'm not trying to provoke you or anything, just reasoning here

I've never really looked at Nvidia in that light before but now that you mention it I do see the similarity.

Yep.. crazy how so many people don't see it in this market. It's slowly happening and it's working unfortunately.

 

[Dicehunter]

Not as fast as the hype made everyone think it would be.. It is overclockable(not even AMD who is responsible for this at launch), is a good choice for watercooling. Just buy the block and remove the AIO. Stock issues were because one part of the supplier chain wasn't producing fast enough. However that has since been fixed and higher mass production has been started.

But again you are proving my point from earlier. People view AMD as a negative, like you just did with their downsides. However what about the good? Hmm? What about the new memory architecture? The vastly improved performance/watt? The ability to keep a hot core cool? The improvements to their color algorithms? And more? I don't see anyone giving them a thumbs up from consumers.. all I see is everyone bashing them because they believed the hype and it wasn't faster than a TX. I for one never thought it would be.

It is not up to the consumer, you're right. However it is in this case when a company who has done everything right and just as great as the other company is being treated like crap and no one cares, that's consumer fault. That's why consumers need to think with their brains for once. I may be on the wrong side here choosing AMD, however at least I tried to keep them afloat for as long as I could support them and tried to keep a monopoly from forming. That's what matters to me the most.

FYI, I'm not trying to provoke you or anything, just reasoning here



Yep.. crazy how so many people don't see it in this market. It's slowly happening and it's working unfortunately.

The TX and FX actually surprisingly trade blows in a lot of games it's only really at lower resolutions the FX struggles as it becomes very CPU dependent.

 

[AlienALX]

As much as I love AMD as the little guy company I don't agree about the drivers. I've had some pretty damn gory horror stories with their drivers in the past. I won't go into detail now because it's late but let's just say that they were bad.

On the flipside I have had a couple of issues with Nvidia drivers but never, EVER anything like the issues I've had on AMD.

I do agree about the screw up part though. I don't know what's the worse of two evils, the 970 "Up ya bum lalalalalala" scam or the "Buy two three or four AMD cards for Crossfire but just don't think they will work because they don't and oh, we won't tell you until we are caught".

Right now I am on AMD because Nvidia screwed people over and I wasn't about to reward them for that. However, the 970 issue didn't even affect me but the Crossfire one most certainly did and I wasted £150 on a second 5770 only for it to completely ruin my gaming experience. And I'm still annoyed about that.

I still see AMD as the lesser of the evils though. Even though people invested in two, three and four 5870s or two 5970s at stupid money.

But they're still both pretty evil.

The TX and FX actually surprisingly trade blows in a lot of games it's only really at lower resolutions the FX struggles as it becomes very CPU dependent.

And let's face it you would be a bit of a Joey to spend £500+ on a card and then run it on 1080p.

Fury X will not keep AMD in business. The 390 and X will.

 

[JR23]

The nVidia Apple parallel is a very good one. They are both extremely good at what they do, but that isn't necessarily making the most competitive solution in their respective industry. The perception they both attain however is magnificent and that is something AMD rarely grasp.

JR

 

[AlienALX]

The nVidia Apple parallel is a very good one. They are both extremely good at what they do, but that isn't necessarily making the most competitive solution in their respective industry. The perception they both attain however is magnificent and that is something AMD rarely grasp.

JR

To be honest I doubt Nvidia made enough money out of Titan and Titan X etc to even cover their lavish lifestyles. The money for any company is in what sells. You know? like what actually sells.

And that will be the 960 and 970. Oh wait, the 970 was mis-advertised...

There's a good reason Nvidia now release all of the lower and mid range stuff first..

 

[Dicehunter]

As much as I love AMD as the little guy company I don't agree about the drivers. I've had some pretty damn gory horror stories with their drivers in the past. I won't go into detail now because it's late but let's just say that they were bad.

On the flipside I have had a couple of issues with Nvidia drivers but never, EVER anything like the issues I've had on AMD.

I do agree about the screw up part though. I don't know what's the worse of two evils, the 970 "Up ya bum lalalalalala" scam or the "Buy two three or four AMD cards for Crossfire but just don't think they will work because they don't and oh, we won't tell you until we are caught".

Right now I am on AMD because Nvidia screwed people over and I wasn't about to reward them for that. However, the 970 issue didn't even affect me but the Crossfire one most certainly did and I wasted £150 on a second 5770 only for it to completely ruin my gaming experience. And I'm still annoyed about that.

I still see AMD as the lesser of the evils though. Even though people invested in two, three and four 5870s or two 5970s at stupid money.

But they're still both pretty evil.



And let's face it you would be a bit of a Joey to spend £500+ on a card and then run it on 1080p.

Fury X will not keep AMD in business. The 390 and X will.

The only problems I've ever had with AMD's drivers and this is going right back to the X1900XT are when I had the 295X2, It just wasn't used well in a lot of games and I kept getting some really terrible thermal throttling even at stock clocks.

The next one is that they don't have Adaptive V-Sync.

Not to be confused with Adaptive Sync technology like Freesync or G-Sync.

 

[AlienALX]

The only problems I've ever had with AMD's drivers and this is going right back to the X1900XT are when I had the 295X2, It just wasn't used well in a lot of games and I kept getting some really terrible thermal throttling even at stock clocks.

The next one is that they don't have Adaptive V-Sync.

Not to be confused with Adaptive Sync technology like Freesync or G-Sync.

2001 I used an ATI 8200 or something. Every now and then I would get a beep from my computer's internal speaker and the rig would hard lock. It took over a year for them to fix it.

This was on a dual Xeon Photoshop rig, so you can imagine how annoying it was to lose work all of the time.

The 7970 though was the worst card/driver combo I have ever had. It would take me a good twenty minutes just to list all of the issues I had with that. IIRC I had it about a month before swapping it for two brand new GTX 480s.

And the 7970 for me at the time was basically two months of saving. I just did not have a spare penny to rub back then.

I shouldn't have bought that card in the first place though, so it was my fault. Mind you, I did buy the card and the 3d monitor AMD recommend for using Tridef on, so it really should have been better.

Since Frame Pacing + 6 months their drivers are far, far better. The 290 I had was seamless and so has the Fury X so far.

 

[Mysterae]

FYI, I'm not trying to provoke you or anything, just reasoning here

No worries, taken in the manner it was intended .

In the end we are just trying to justify our considerable investments to each other. The support the underdog approach to choosing AMD is laudable, but it shouldn't be the singular reason. Don't fear a monopoly, there are laws to prevent such things from happening and makes the weaker companies try harder.

 

[NeverBackDown]

The only problems I've ever had with AMD's drivers and this is going right back to the X1900XT are when I had the 295X2, It just wasn't used well in a lot of games and I kept getting some really terrible thermal throttling even at stock clocks.

The next one is that they don't have Adaptive V-Sync.

Not to be confused with Adaptive Sync technology like Freesync or G-Sync.

I've never had an AMD driver issue. Not even when I followed your driver guides and did it my own way. It has to be user error.. Only driver issues i got were when OC'ing and it wasn't stable.

Adaptive V-Sync is Freesync btw... it's just AMDs term for it. Its the Displayport standard.

No worries, taken in the manner it was intended .

In the end we are just trying to justify our considerable investments to each other. The support the underdog approach to choosing AMD is laudable, but it shouldn't be the singular reason. Don't fear a monopoly, there are laws to prevent such things from happening and makes the weaker companies try harder.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm merely just bringing up what I see and what I know. I support AMD because I don't trust nor like the way Nvidia runs. I don't want to support that, that's my reasoning, however adding in the monopoly thing is another good reason. Yes there are laws but if they become a monopoly legally by just selling more than the next guy and the next guy ends up failing, there's not much the government can do. You can't really do much here.. no one else is in the market to even think about going against AMD or Nvidia. It's really just 2 businesses and only one is going to win. I'm here to help get the underdog some support to prevent a single winner.

The nVidia Apple parallel is a very good one. They are both extremely good at what they do, but that isn't necessarily making the most competitive solution in their respective industry. The perception they both attain however is magnificent and that is something AMD rarely grasp.

JR

Yes I would agree with everything there. But consumers already have a made up mind about AMD, so they are already at a huge disadvantage to their image and how people see them.

 

[AlienALX]

I've never had an AMD driver issue. Not even when I followed your driver guides and did it my own way. It has to be user error.. Only driver issues i got were when OC'ing and it wasn't stable.

No, it's not user error.

At the time I bought my 7970 I had a MSI MATX X58 board and a 950, here are the issues I had.

1. Small, purple and white blocks all over my icons (Windows 7).
2. When allowing the monitor to go to sleep when awakening the PC I would lose half of my desktop. Not black, it would still be there, but anything below the center line was a black hole. So for example if I dragged a folder down there it would disappear under the desktop and I could not get back to it without rebooting the PC.
3. Artefacts and big lines and triangles in games.
4. Zerocore did not work, the card was always clocking at 1ghz.

I could go on and on. I formatted and reinstalled my PC when I got the card because the install was kind of old.

Edit. I know the card was not faulty because I swapped it with a guy who AFAIK is still using it now.

 

[Dicehunter]

I've never had an AMD driver issue. Not even when I followed your driver guides and did it my own way. It has to be user error.. Only driver issues i got were when OC'ing and it wasn't stable.

Adaptive V-Sync is Freesync btw... it's just AMDs term for it. Its the Displayport standard.

Nope it's not, Adaptive V-Sync is a technology Nvidia use to turn V-Sync off when you fall below your monitors refresh rate and turn it on when you hit your monitors refresh rate.

Freesync and G-Sync are adaptive sync technologies.

Here's some more info about Nvidias adaptive v-sync, It literally just turns v-sync on and off very quickly -

http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/adaptive-vsync

 

[NeverBackDown]

No, it's not user error.

At the time I bought my 7970 I had a MSI MATX X58 board and a 950, here are the issues I had.

1. Small, purple and white blocks all over my icons (Windows 7).
2. When allowing the monitor to go to sleep when awakening the PC I would lose half of my desktop. Not black, it would still be there, but anything below the center line was a black hole. So for example if I dragged a folder down there it would disappear under the desktop and I could not get back to it without rebooting the PC.
3. Artefacts and big lines and triangles in games.
4. Zerocore did not work, the card was always clocking at 1ghz.

I could go on and on. I formatted and reinstalled my PC when I got the card because the install was kind of old.

Edit. I know the card was not faulty because I swapped it with a guy who AFAIK is still using it now.

Sounds likes it was indeed faulty. That all sounds like memory going out. Formatting btw doesn't get rid of all the data, so if you really wanted to be sure, you would do a secure erase. Also it could have been a bad BIOS, if it wasn't dead it was probably a bad bios.. but sounds more dead tbh

Nope it's not, Adaptive V-Sync is a technology Nvidia use to turn V-Sync off when you fall below your monitors refresh rate and turn it on when you hit your monitors refresh rate.

Freesync and G-Sync are adaptive sync technologies.

Here's some more info about Nvidias adaptive v-sync, It literally just turns v-sync on and off very quickly -

http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/technology/adaptive-vsync

Well tbf Freesync can be used alongside V-Sync, so doesn't matter all that much. Neither are perfect solutions as input lag rises which makes high refresh rates have less of an advantage than most people would think.

 

[Dicehunter]

Well tbf Freesync can be used alongside V-Sync, so doesn't matter all that much. Neither are perfect solutions as input lag rises which makes high refresh rates have less of an advantage than most people would think.

Well I wish AMD would enable the use of adaptive v-sync as it's so handy, Nvidia implemented it on their drivers like 4 and a half years ago ^_^

 

[NeverBackDown]

Well I wish AMD would enable the use of adaptive v-sync as it's so handy, Nvidia implemented it on their drivers like 4 and a half years ago ^_^

Don't really need it though. If you have a 144hz monitor then it's not needed. If you don't even hit 60hz often(example only) then don't need it.

 

[Dicehunter]

Don't really need it though. If you have a 144hz monitor then it's not needed. If you don't even hit 60hz often(example only) then don't need it.

I don't have a 144Hz monitor and I do hit 60FPS quite a lot in the games I play hence it's a useful feature.

 

[NeverBackDown]

I don't have a 144Hz monitor and I do hit 60FPS quite a lot in the games I play hence it's a useful feature.

It was an example, but even then. I don't see any benefits to using it. What's the point in uncapping then capping the framerate? It's also increasing input lag when it comes on since that's just how v-sync works.