Peltier coolers - why aren't they used more?

[Merlin]

I was talking to my son Bigian88 the other evening about Peltier coolers and how they were used in 'old skool' overclocking, however, they seem to have fallen out of favour in recent years.

I think that a renaissance might be in order for Peltier coolers, for the following reasons.

1. They can be obtained in up to 400 Watt versions nowadays and that's a lot of heat transfer.

2. Mahoosive coolers like the Noctua, Scythe etc. were'nt around back when I was into serious overclocking. They have the ability to remove a lot more heat than standard coolers and could cope with a Peltier 'pushing' heat into it, providing better cooling to the CPU or GPU. It could also allow for a smaller heat sink and cooler if it's more efficient at removing heat from the CPU or GPU.

3. Graphics cards seem to be having a lot of failures of RAM or GPUs due to microfractures of the lead-free solder in the BGA arrays. This is becoming more common and is related to the XBox 360 / PS3 problems with repeated heat and cooling cycles stressing the lead-free solder until it stress fractures. A Peltier might just reduce or eliminate this effect and I can't understand why graphics card manufacturers haven't picked up on this.

4. Compared to the costs of water cooling, Vapochill or other exotic cooling solutions, Peltiers seem to be as 'cheap as chips', so why has this piece of hardware been overlooked so much?

 

[siravarice]

I remember doing an essay on this at University last year. I found that they really aren't that efficient, but then I can't remember how efficient a standard cooler is so I have no direct comparison. But I'm sure with a little development they could be made a lot better.

 

[BigIan88]

Beat me to posting a thread

 

[Merlin]

@ Ian

You'd already posted other threads, so I presumed that you had forgotten.... no sweat. I just wanted to get a few opinions from more modern overclockers about the points I've made above.

Recovering graphics cards in your oven at home

is risky and might not work if your uber graphics card fails, but if these devices might help to prevent these issues, it seems strange that they aren't used.

I've recovered graphics cards in the oven at home, but it's not for the faint hearted....

 

[BigIan88]

Recovering graphics cards in your oven at home

is risky and might not work if your uber graphics card fails, but if these devices might help to prevent these issues, it seems strange that they aren't used.

I've recovered graphics cards in the oven at home, but it's not for the faint hearted....

if it ever goes wrong you could do this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85aQboW_HoU

 

[Bocephus]

Expense...not cost effective.

Dangers...moisture,noxious gas / poisonous gas.

experience...specialized tools, equipment and refrigerant licensing (also cost effective)

Time intensive...constant checking / regulating / correcting

totally unnecessary unless you're going for extreme world record OC'ing

Water cooling isn't even totally necessary these days...unless you have an inefficient air cooled case, multiple GPU's or cant configure optimum air flow other than that they look cool

just a few reasons off the top of my head but I guess you could impress your friends hehe

 

[Merlin]

Eh? A Peltier cooler is an electrical device that uses a 12v supply and doesn't use any gases at all. It could simply be wired to a Molex connector and it would be cooling from the moment the power goes on.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

Link2: http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm

No condensation, no leaks, virtually no risk, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a preventive measure for over-worked graphics cards and mildly overclocked CPUs.

Nvidia 560 cards are already having failures and this is almost certainly down to heat cycles and micro-fracturing of the RoHS lead-free solder. A device costing less than £15 might have prevented these failures as a 400 Watt Peltier device could achieve a 30 degree cooling effect. At the 90+ degree heat of a top-end graphics card, 30 degrees is significant and worth having in my opinion.

 

[hmmblah]

I have no experience with peltiers, but used to love all the videos. From my understanding with the heat loads current gear is throwing out, combined with having to cool the peltier itself, you need an insane amount of cooling. I've seen this question come out before at other sites and this is what some of the guys who used to use peltiers have said.

I'm sure there's more to it, but that's what I got out of the conversation.

 

[Stryker64]

The main issue with Peltiers is the high temps they give you equal performance to regular cooling solutions as shown in these graphs

(From legitreviews)

And here's one on a watercooling loop Link. While at idle TEC gives you great temps, but once you put the system underload it can't get rid of the heat, or transfer enough cold since that's how TEC works.

Now you also have to keep in mind extra setup costs due to the higher price tag and the increased electric bill, it's just not cost effective especially in modern high end systems.

 

[qboney]

No Capacity for load

I'm relatively new to Peltier cooling, and have only applied detailed experiments in the last few months. (wish i could have those months of my life back...)

To cut a long story short, they have no capacity to handle load range well.

We've all seen the videos on YouTube, on how they can get down well below 0 Celsius. But that's without load. (Heat applied to the cold side and being asked to carry it to the hot side)

I have two TEC Peltier 12706 chips on either side of a copper water block, running at 5v, on an isolated water loop. Looks great, and at idle, keeps my i5 3570k (not overclocked) around 30 Celsius. Same as water cooling with a radiator (32 C), almost same as cooling with a nice air cooled fan (35 C).
Once i put a load (Stress/Heavy Gaming) the temp shoots up to +65 Celsius.
That's about 15 degrees above water cooling, or easily 10 degrees above a good air cooled fan.

I could put larger Peltier units, or apply 12v, but then i would be faced with several obstacles.
1) I would have to remove massive heat that the Peltier puts out so it won't go into stasis.
2) I need to be concerned about condensation if the temp on the cold side get too much below inside case temp.

And the end result... Load temps that end up around what i get with water cooling.

Just my two cents.

 

[ke7fck]

It always seemed funny to me when people used peltiers where a radiator should go, instead of where they run best, at the point of action, the CPU/GPU. Place the peltier on the processor and the water block on the peltier. The peltier cools the chip and the water cools the peltier. By increasing the temperature difference between the cooling medium (water) and the heat exchanger (radiator exposed to air temp) you improve efficiency of heat transfer.

Condensation at the board is the issue. Insulating the board near the processor and the components on it is the right direction to go.

On a simlar related but different not, I'm a little surprised that water blocks don't have larger internal heat sinks and volume chambers on them, that too seems like it would improve efficiency, simply by increasing surface area.

 

[Paper Blankets]

I rarely see peltiers on radiators, the norm. is between the waterblock and processor.
If people go the route described above, it is because when a peltier goes, if its on the cpu, the cpu is going with it.

When its on the radiator, the cpu (intel) can sometimes safely shut down before damage to your gear occurs.

The only large block I have seen is the Swiftech Apogee Drive II, and it is more to deal with the pump on the unit than to help with the processor.

 

[obiwan768]

Peltier cooling

When you use a Peltier for you PC you need at least a 12715 twice.
I build the cooling systems with Peltiers at my own.
I use Plexiglas and glue to build them.


The Performing of these head exchangers are very well. See my album on this forum.
With two of them(2x2) I bring the water to freezing point and the processor runs at 14 °Celcius
The room temperature 21° C

 

[Shibin]

I'm doing a project on peltier could you please help me

 

[Wraith]

I'm doing a project on peltier could you please help me

Given that this thread was last updated on July of 2013 you'll be very lucky if someone replys, it maybe worth while starting a fresh thread with your questions.