OC3D Article: Graphics - what do gamers want?
- Thread starter FarFarAway
- Start date
Too right mate!
Crysis looks good..but i get bored after / before finishin the first level :/
Plus my rig aint exactly low and i can still only play comfortable at medium high settings
Games and apps do need to start being coded better (quad support...tidier and heck even better gameplay!)
I have yet to see more than 3 games iv played that support native 64 bit
Crysis looks good..but i get bored after / before finishin the first level :/
Plus my rig aint exactly low and i can still only play comfortable at medium high settings
Games and apps do need to start being coded better (quad support...tidier and heck even better gameplay!)
I have yet to see more than 3 games iv played that support native 64 bit
Maybe its just me, but sometimes I think that amazing graphics can spoil a game.
I remember playing games like resident evil where the graphics were pretty dire. You'd be thinking "wtf is that on the floor" then all of a sudden realise its a zombie or sommit that starts chewing at ur feet
I remember playing games like resident evil where the graphics were pretty dire. You'd be thinking "wtf is that on the floor" then all of a sudden realise its a zombie or sommit that starts chewing at ur feet
Mr. Smith
New member
I want amazing graphics.
I want amazing gameplay.
I want amazing hardware.
I get none of the above.
Is it me or are there no decent games out there? As time passes I feel less and less inclined to buy the latest hardware because there aren't any games I want to play and/or the performance increases are negligible.
The HDR mod to Half Life made an old game come back to life for me and still ran really well on my 88gts/88gt... Hell, HL2 ep1 ran smoothly on a 7300gt. However I feel Source looks too dated.
When I play a game I want to become immersed in the environment and feel as if I am there. This requires slick graphics (an attention to detail), sound is paramount (Doom was atmospheric) but also needs involving gameplay...
Recently I have nearly sold my PC a few times as it is now a glorified HTPC. I'm not playing games because there aren't any decent ones out there and the ones coming up that look decent probably won't run to my standards on my hardware which will force me into yet another hardware upgrade.
Sigh.
Edit: Also, all my mates with consoles are spoilt for choice for games that will instantly run fine on there console that is maybe a few years old... I think PC has better gameplay generally but they are so much hassle. I also feel people defend their PC's as they represent a significant investment for most people here (I bet most people here are 18-20 earning <£20K), luckily I could throw my PC out of the window and it would make no odds to me so I feel I can be more objective. PC's are a waste of money. They used to offer screaming performance and awesome games but the last two years I have seen them develop into money leeches. Feel free to disagree...
I want amazing gameplay.
I want amazing hardware.
I get none of the above.
Is it me or are there no decent games out there? As time passes I feel less and less inclined to buy the latest hardware because there aren't any games I want to play and/or the performance increases are negligible.
The HDR mod to Half Life made an old game come back to life for me and still ran really well on my 88gts/88gt... Hell, HL2 ep1 ran smoothly on a 7300gt. However I feel Source looks too dated.
When I play a game I want to become immersed in the environment and feel as if I am there. This requires slick graphics (an attention to detail), sound is paramount (Doom was atmospheric) but also needs involving gameplay...
Recently I have nearly sold my PC a few times as it is now a glorified HTPC. I'm not playing games because there aren't any decent ones out there and the ones coming up that look decent probably won't run to my standards on my hardware which will force me into yet another hardware upgrade.
Sigh.
Edit: Also, all my mates with consoles are spoilt for choice for games that will instantly run fine on there console that is maybe a few years old... I think PC has better gameplay generally but they are so much hassle. I also feel people defend their PC's as they represent a significant investment for most people here (I bet most people here are 18-20 earning <£20K), luckily I could throw my PC out of the window and it would make no odds to me so I feel I can be more objective. PC's are a waste of money. They used to offer screaming performance and awesome games but the last two years I have seen them develop into money leeches. Feel free to disagree...
FarFarAway
New member
name='Mr. Smith' said:
This is precisely my point mate
name='Mr. Smith' said:
Couldn't agree more, The pc games releases has slowed down so much over the past year or two I've been saying this for a while.
I've been a gamer since i was a nipper and always argued that the PC was the defining platform, Whats an FPS without a keyboard and mouse, when was the last platform sonic type game you seen on the PC, strategy games were in a league of their own and obviously they was always cheaper than the consoles on the release date £30 or so.
I used to easily manage to buy a game a week for the PC and those were games i looked forward to getting not just anything off the shelf. I rerember medal of honour, call of duty and wolfenstien all getting released at the same time I rerember it as I booked a week off work lol
Just add a few flashy bits to the quake 3 engine and release some games I say.
It may just be me but I’ve also noticed that games recently have to be cross-platform, often to the detriment of the game play on the PC. Its maybe best if I just explain what I mean in an example: Take Assassins Creed, An enjoyable game but one developed of a console not a PC. In fight sequences I found that I was just crunching keys all the time (the exact same way I did playing the game on the console), it didnt feel like I had control over what the character was doing.
The PC is capable of much more than a Console but game developers seem just to developed the game for the consoles then code it so a PC can play it too (instead of making a dedicated PC version of the game)
The PC is capable of much more than a Console but game developers seem just to developed the game for the consoles then code it so a PC can play it too (instead of making a dedicated PC version of the game)
Mr. Smith
New member
name='Kempez' said:
I know, I was agreeing with you. It's frustrating...
name='Hiks' said:
Agreed. I used to be able to walk into a shop and the top 10 games were all quality... Now... Hard pressed to find 1/2 good games every quarter...
name='Duecut' said:
Too true. Is all the money in consoles? People always go where the money is, its business...
Now you can use kb/m with 360's/consoles I'm seriously thinking get a lappy for my internet needs and a sweet console to game on. I don't want to but unless something changes in the next few months games wise, I'll have to give up!
Fisrt off. Mr Smith when you chuck it out the window ring this number about 4 hours before hand 07701234567 
Secondly I have the same sentiments as the rest of us. I would not pay good money to buy a music CD where the band were playing with toy instruments - I expect real instruments and good music. So why do I pay good money for games developed by poor developers / companies whose only incentive is to make as much money as possible.
That will explain why the last time I bought a game was before Xmas (Cod4) and justifies in part why I still play the same games, going back to CSS and continously playing Project Reality.
More so I have started playing free here href="http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1617466">FallenSword RPG - Play online now free!</a>
Just click create a new account
Its not the most graphic of games but it is Free and addictive and if you give it a go look for meltingwax to find me
Secondly I have the same sentiments as the rest of us. I would not pay good money to buy a music CD where the band were playing with toy instruments - I expect real instruments and good music. So why do I pay good money for games developed by poor developers / companies whose only incentive is to make as much money as possible.
That will explain why the last time I bought a game was before Xmas (Cod4) and justifies in part why I still play the same games, going back to CSS and continously playing Project Reality.
More so I have started playing free here href="http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1617466">FallenSword RPG - Play online now free!</a>
Just click create a new account
Its not the most graphic of games but it is Free and addictive and if you give it a go look for meltingwax to find me
Agree. But with the majority of gamers using consoles due to the cost/ease of use, it makes sense for the developers to make their main focus aimed at that market because thats where the money is. I bet there's probably less than 1 in 10 people who have a pc capable of running current top titles on better than average settings. Its just so bloomin expensive to run games all polished on a pc compared to a console. Its a bit cr@ppy for ourselves but thats the way it is i reckon. Most of the people i know have a 360 or PS3 and i could probably count the number of people i know with gaming pc's on one hand. Not everybody has the technical sense for pc's as well. But there's still a lot of 'good' games out there for the pc that aren't available for console......Also, to add to that, i think consoles can be more of a social media which attracts the larger audience. Take the Wii for example. How many folks do you know that play it by themselves? I think it is about time though that the developers step things up a notch or two so its not a case of waiting a year for a sequel to come out and rather waiting a few weeks for something new and exciting....
Rastalovich
New member
I think all the comments in both the article and this thread are very valid.
I also think we all want the same thing, reasoning maybe slightly different, but it all gears towards the same principles.
Somebody or somehow u get an injection of... maybe £2000.. maybe 5 or 10 years ago u could look at your 2/3 year old rig and seriously replace it with outstanding results.
Atm, u look at ur rig (just stating some "average" equiptment imo today) - Q6600/4G/8800/500g/P35/DVDRW - what meaningful upgrade would u make to that ? Well, u could go x977x/8G/280/320gSSD/P45/BRRW and spend a fair wedge of ur cash. U then run some benchmarks and think u`ve done really well.. but then u play ur game, perhaps it`ll load quicker, maybe u`ll see some slight improvement in frames at certain periods - but overall how much of a performance/quality increase have u just had for ur wedge of cash ?
Kemp is correct when he says about the scaling of graphics within games and engines. Theoreticaly, looking back at the likes of Unreal, u would previously played the game on scaled down settings - but when u bought ur new stuff u`d slap those settings right up and actually feel the improvements, yet alone seeing the different textures and lighting.
Devs have alot to answer for, and I don`t really want to fall back into the stale repetition of blaming programmers and the like, but we`re building machines with multicores, machines that can calculate billions of equations (when u look at the folding @ home principles).
I do want to fall back on something I`ve been banging on about for ages tho. A pc built with the best stuff at the end of 2006, still today can play the majority of games at a very high standard. Handful of months and that`ll be 3 years ago! Since when in the history of pc/computer gaming have advancement in game tech been so stale ?
To appreciate where I`m coming from in that sense, I`m used to devs being presented with a platform - and pushing it. Today it`s not the case, hasn`t been for a while. Imo Kemp is totally correct in so much as Crytek haven`t pushed these evolving pc hardware specs, they`ve badly created an engine - that although looks very good, I`m almost under the impression that they have spiralled the engine with poor application as time has gone on with the dev.
There are a few `good` games that come out from time to time, but even then they lack a heck of alot. Gameplay when they look good, shoddy looks when there`s an eliment of gameplay. Genres are stale, consoles are massaging them a bit, but they`re still stale on there too.
Frequency of pc game releases ? a handful sprinkled throughout the year, then a load around autumn/december, then the quietness of january.
What can we effectively do ?
It`s not just the games for me tho, it`s OS, it`s apps, poor implementation, botching, patches for this`n`that, poor performance on a £3k machine - why ?
We do pay through the nose for these pieces of software to use on our carefully constructed machines, it`s about time that if the software fails or needs a patch - people get compensated.
Don`t blame hardware myself. Next year the pure potential processing power of the pcs we can build will be immense again, then we run something on them and get complaicent.
.. there`s always folding.
I also think we all want the same thing, reasoning maybe slightly different, but it all gears towards the same principles.
Somebody or somehow u get an injection of... maybe £2000.. maybe 5 or 10 years ago u could look at your 2/3 year old rig and seriously replace it with outstanding results.
Atm, u look at ur rig (just stating some "average" equiptment imo today) - Q6600/4G/8800/500g/P35/DVDRW - what meaningful upgrade would u make to that ? Well, u could go x977x/8G/280/320gSSD/P45/BRRW and spend a fair wedge of ur cash. U then run some benchmarks and think u`ve done really well.. but then u play ur game, perhaps it`ll load quicker, maybe u`ll see some slight improvement in frames at certain periods - but overall how much of a performance/quality increase have u just had for ur wedge of cash ?
Kemp is correct when he says about the scaling of graphics within games and engines. Theoreticaly, looking back at the likes of Unreal, u would previously played the game on scaled down settings - but when u bought ur new stuff u`d slap those settings right up and actually feel the improvements, yet alone seeing the different textures and lighting.
Devs have alot to answer for, and I don`t really want to fall back into the stale repetition of blaming programmers and the like, but we`re building machines with multicores, machines that can calculate billions of equations (when u look at the folding @ home principles).
I do want to fall back on something I`ve been banging on about for ages tho. A pc built with the best stuff at the end of 2006, still today can play the majority of games at a very high standard. Handful of months and that`ll be 3 years ago! Since when in the history of pc/computer gaming have advancement in game tech been so stale ?
To appreciate where I`m coming from in that sense, I`m used to devs being presented with a platform - and pushing it. Today it`s not the case, hasn`t been for a while. Imo Kemp is totally correct in so much as Crytek haven`t pushed these evolving pc hardware specs, they`ve badly created an engine - that although looks very good, I`m almost under the impression that they have spiralled the engine with poor application as time has gone on with the dev.
There are a few `good` games that come out from time to time, but even then they lack a heck of alot. Gameplay when they look good, shoddy looks when there`s an eliment of gameplay. Genres are stale, consoles are massaging them a bit, but they`re still stale on there too.
Frequency of pc game releases ? a handful sprinkled throughout the year, then a load around autumn/december, then the quietness of january.
What can we effectively do ?
It`s not just the games for me tho, it`s OS, it`s apps, poor implementation, botching, patches for this`n`that, poor performance on a £3k machine - why ?
We do pay through the nose for these pieces of software to use on our carefully constructed machines, it`s about time that if the software fails or needs a patch - people get compensated.
Don`t blame hardware myself. Next year the pure potential processing power of the pcs we can build will be immense again, then we run something on them and get complaicent.
.. there`s always folding.
In October 2007, I saved up and bought an Xbox 360. All my friends had one, I hadn't gamed in a long time and wanted to get back into the scene. So I bought Halo 3 (pile of
e) and Cod4 and started gaming my hours away. I met so many idiots on Xbox Live that I eventually got sick of it. I got bored of single player games where I pay £40, have no social interaction with anyone but NPCs and it was frankly, tedious and boring for no real gain other than achievements.
I've now given my Xbox 360 to my brother and in April 08, I built myself a new computer. And bought TF2, now...I haven't gamed on a PC for years, specially in the FPS genre and you know what, it has filled my heart with
ing joy. I relise now, whats so great about gaming on a PC. The social interaction.
The community surrounding a game such as TF2 is small and you know what, we pay £10 on Steam for hours and hours of fun online, with people, get into a clan and organise matches and constantly be intouch with whats happening. The PC gaming scene is tight and thats what appeals to me the most, not to mention mouse and keyboard rocks compared to a
ty controller. There is more skill needed, more time and effort to perfect the way you play.
Now, thats why I choose a PC over a console. As for the hardware, which this topic is actually about. Its simple, don't do it. I think alot of us buy the hardware for benchmarking and growing our e-peens. When really, games don't need this power. Yes, developers SHOULD help us out but every company is out for one thing, to make money and if people fall into this then your asking for trouble.
I think the source engine looks amazing still and on TF2 the graphics are wicked, good enough for me. Who cares what the sky looks like when I am fragging
ers in the face? Online gaming on the PC is where its at, single player games...not so much. I haven't even used DX10 yet, why? 'Cause I don't need too.
I've now given my Xbox 360 to my brother and in April 08, I built myself a new computer. And bought TF2, now...I haven't gamed on a PC for years, specially in the FPS genre and you know what, it has filled my heart with
The community surrounding a game such as TF2 is small and you know what, we pay £10 on Steam for hours and hours of fun online, with people, get into a clan and organise matches and constantly be intouch with whats happening. The PC gaming scene is tight and thats what appeals to me the most, not to mention mouse and keyboard rocks compared to a
Now, thats why I choose a PC over a console. As for the hardware, which this topic is actually about. Its simple, don't do it. I think alot of us buy the hardware for benchmarking and growing our e-peens. When really, games don't need this power. Yes, developers SHOULD help us out but every company is out for one thing, to make money and if people fall into this then your asking for trouble.
I think the source engine looks amazing still and on TF2 the graphics are wicked, good enough for me. Who cares what the sky looks like when I am fragging
The thing is most competative folk who play online will initially like a strong graphics engine but inevitably will tweak the config, turning off all the 'effects' and turning down the textures to gain an advantage to such an extent the game is almost unrecognisable from its initial look.
The gameplay and physics of the game are much more important than graphics imo.
The gameplay and physics of the game are much more important than graphics imo.
Agreed, It's depressing to see the graphics card I bought 6 months ago (Asus NVidia 8800GTS 512MB) for 220 quid now selling for less than half that, and now I can buy even better cards for ...you guessed it 220quid.
My son plays on my old rig with an NVidia 7600GT and can still play all the new games albeit at low settings and the Kryton lookalikes.
Furthermore I totally agree with mrapoc about Crycis and especially on the subject of 64 bit support. I think we've all (enthusiasts) been duped there.
Games like COD4 are more what I would call gamer-friendly coz you can still get in the action, and kick ass, on an older rig. My kid does it on a regular basis, coming top on the net!
I gave up trying to find a Crysis server I could play for more than a couple of minutes before getting kicked, and quite frankly the graphics were key-rap!
My son plays on my old rig with an NVidia 7600GT and can still play all the new games albeit at low settings and the Kryton lookalikes.
Furthermore I totally agree with mrapoc about Crycis and especially on the subject of 64 bit support. I think we've all (enthusiasts) been duped there.
Games like COD4 are more what I would call gamer-friendly coz you can still get in the action, and kick ass, on an older rig. My kid does it on a regular basis, coming top on the net!
I gave up trying to find a Crysis server I could play for more than a couple of minutes before getting kicked, and quite frankly the graphics were key-rap!
name='Mr. Smith' said:
I honestly never thought I'd say this being a Warcraft vetran and the onwner of sooo many PC games but what you want is an XBOX360 with HDMI cable and a 42" LCD Telly.
In all honesty since I got my XBOX a couple of months ago, I rarely touch my PC for gaming
I love COD4 on the xbox, I usually join a few mates and w go around just having fun, proof for me is the fact that for the past 3 weeks I've not gone to bed earlier than 2am
Shame on me and I'm fired.
Well talking about the idea of consoles vs pc's, games like Cod4 are fun on the pc, and I will admit i wouldent touch a console with a barge pole, but had Activision not completely screwed the modders over with the ranking system, i think cod4 would be brilliant. As it stands cod4 is a very good game, but it lacks that "polished" feel you get playing css or similiar, where there must be hundreds of different mods, if not thousands.
In the console vs pc debate, i feel consoles are becoming so good that it is not financially practical to buy a pc to beat them. Games on the pc are more expensive to develop, need to be more scalable etc etc. Whereas on the consoles, you open drive, put in game and be done with it. What the pc needs (IMO) is better connection and integration with console gamers, Microsoft SHOULD have incorporated xbox live support for games into vista. That would have definately improved the pc's situation. However, there is something I will never forgive consoles for, online play. Joining a game is tedious, frustrating and generally stupid, the idea of joining a match and waiting for it to fill up and start, not being able to simply join a server on a map of your choice, on a game mode of your choice, with players already on it is so much better than XBOX lives system, and the ps3's system is little better, if not identical.
In the console vs pc debate, i feel consoles are becoming so good that it is not financially practical to buy a pc to beat them. Games on the pc are more expensive to develop, need to be more scalable etc etc. Whereas on the consoles, you open drive, put in game and be done with it. What the pc needs (IMO) is better connection and integration with console gamers, Microsoft SHOULD have incorporated xbox live support for games into vista. That would have definately improved the pc's situation. However, there is something I will never forgive consoles for, online play. Joining a game is tedious, frustrating and generally stupid, the idea of joining a match and waiting for it to fill up and start, not being able to simply join a server on a map of your choice, on a game mode of your choice, with players already on it is so much better than XBOX lives system, and the ps3's system is little better, if not identical.
at the rate we're going, pc's are going to be turned back into functional items
as games consoles get keyboards and mice, aswell as just controlers
and people will get games consoles if they want to game
and pc's for media, like music, video's, pics, writing letters etc
it is stupid how people have to constantly upgrade
the devaluation on pc parts is disgusting, especially graphics cards, you pay 300 quid for one, one month, the next month its worth 200, next month 150, next month 100, well, maybe not quite that quickly, but i wouldnt be suprised if that happened soon..
it is a con, it is a rip off, and the market seems to be moving away from good gaming
games are just copying previous games
but thats just like the media, how many adverts now, on the telly, just copy other adverts, where has origonality gone, where has new-thinking gone, where has inovation and invention gone, we seem just to be recycling the same old over and over
i mean, i know things have to agree to a set standard, like its good that games have the same buttons for things, like car games, same buttons for accelerate, brake, etc etc, but why should everything else be the same
i have to admit however that once a certain bar has been passed, there can only be so much difference, like realism for example, once graphics are perfected, thats it, all games will look the same, have the same graphics, ...
however, i do think that games like the GTA series, specifically GTA4, it has stunning graphics, great gameplay, but the story is too short, ...a long game is better..
but the good thing about that is the attention to detail
like cans floating in the sea
and car bodies, all rusted, off the side of cliff's, etc, ...
i personally, am a console gamer, always have been, probably always will be, but i do like the odd pc game, AOE2 comes to mind, i like the mouse for selecting people, and right clicking for actions etc
consoles do the things right, they're a pc, thats just used for gaming, and only gaming..
wheras pc's do many things, i bet, that if you brought out a gaming only operating system for a pc, it would be able to run things a fair bit quicker as it wouldnt have to focus on anything else
infact, when you turn on a pc, you should be given an option of like "dvd/film/video watching, operating system, gaming" you pick the one you want to do, and only key bits of the operating system are loaded, optimised for what it is you want to do, asus had a good idea with their express gate..
anyway, rant over about money...
hope someone thinks the same..
as games consoles get keyboards and mice, aswell as just controlers
and people will get games consoles if they want to game
and pc's for media, like music, video's, pics, writing letters etc
it is stupid how people have to constantly upgrade
the devaluation on pc parts is disgusting, especially graphics cards, you pay 300 quid for one, one month, the next month its worth 200, next month 150, next month 100, well, maybe not quite that quickly, but i wouldnt be suprised if that happened soon..
it is a con, it is a rip off, and the market seems to be moving away from good gaming
games are just copying previous games
but thats just like the media, how many adverts now, on the telly, just copy other adverts, where has origonality gone, where has new-thinking gone, where has inovation and invention gone, we seem just to be recycling the same old over and over
i mean, i know things have to agree to a set standard, like its good that games have the same buttons for things, like car games, same buttons for accelerate, brake, etc etc, but why should everything else be the same
i have to admit however that once a certain bar has been passed, there can only be so much difference, like realism for example, once graphics are perfected, thats it, all games will look the same, have the same graphics, ...
however, i do think that games like the GTA series, specifically GTA4, it has stunning graphics, great gameplay, but the story is too short, ...a long game is better..
but the good thing about that is the attention to detail
like cans floating in the sea
and car bodies, all rusted, off the side of cliff's, etc, ...
i personally, am a console gamer, always have been, probably always will be, but i do like the odd pc game, AOE2 comes to mind, i like the mouse for selecting people, and right clicking for actions etc
consoles do the things right, they're a pc, thats just used for gaming, and only gaming..
wheras pc's do many things, i bet, that if you brought out a gaming only operating system for a pc, it would be able to run things a fair bit quicker as it wouldnt have to focus on anything else
infact, when you turn on a pc, you should be given an option of like "dvd/film/video watching, operating system, gaming" you pick the one you want to do, and only key bits of the operating system are loaded, optimised for what it is you want to do, asus had a good idea with their express gate..
anyway, rant over about money...
hope someone thinks the same..
I reckon open source games will have an increasing share as time goes on, it's obviously easier to do with software -and will be some time before good free games come out with all the work required coding them- but for almost every charging app out now, there is an open-source one which can do the job 95% as well. I don't pay for any software when I don't have to, so I have free firewall, antivirus, browser, defragger, music studio software etc etc all of which work brilliantly and dont cost me a penny.
Because people aren't out to make money with open source, and aren't pressured by the same constraints of time and budget as developing companies, the finished product is often better than the thing it was designed to replace.
This brings me onto another feature of PC gaming which for now at least consoles cannot touch at all which is modding. Just the other day I played a mod for Half-Life 1, called PARANOIA (see attached screenie - not the best but I never was good at taking them lol), and it was such a refreshing burst of single-player fun which I hadn't had for ages. Everything about the mod had a really polished feel and it wasn't just the graphics [which were excellent for goldsrc engine], the devs had actually added features such as being able to ironside almost all weapons, and an interesting visor-armour system.
It's teams like this who show what can be done with a bit of effort, and more power to em I say. If the "real" developers aren't making proper games then it's not up to us gamers to just complain to them them- the more tech-savvy amongst us should get into the devving/modding scene ourselves and show them how it's done!!!
Because people aren't out to make money with open source, and aren't pressured by the same constraints of time and budget as developing companies, the finished product is often better than the thing it was designed to replace.
This brings me onto another feature of PC gaming which for now at least consoles cannot touch at all which is modding. Just the other day I played a mod for Half-Life 1, called PARANOIA (see attached screenie - not the best but I never was good at taking them lol), and it was such a refreshing burst of single-player fun which I hadn't had for ages. Everything about the mod had a really polished feel and it wasn't just the graphics [which were excellent for goldsrc engine], the devs had actually added features such as being able to ironside almost all weapons, and an interesting visor-armour system.
It's teams like this who show what can be done with a bit of effort, and more power to em I say. If the "real" developers aren't making proper games then it's not up to us gamers to just complain to them them- the more tech-savvy amongst us should get into the devving/modding scene ourselves and show them how it's done!!!
