Memory timings

jayawms

New member
My current rig has Corsair XMS3 1600MHz DDR3 with 7-8-7-20 timings. I've been wondering lately just how much of a real world gain there really is to have tight vs loose memory timings. It would be interesting to see TTL do a review covering the more obvious expected gains of higher frequency vs the less obvious gains of timings. I think a 3x3 matrix of 1066, 1333 and 1600MHz frequencies vs 7-7-7-20, 8-8-8-24 and 9-9-9-27 timings for each would be enough to see quantifiable results. A lot of people tend to gravitate toward the highest frequency memory their processor can handle, but once that's decided, how much more do you really gain by having tighter timings? It may seem obvious, but considering how systems work with cache and all, do you ever really see that much of a difference?

How about it Tom, want to give it a go?
 
dude if you check the latest ram reviews you will see that some of the 2133 stuff is cas9 and others are 10 and 11 and the tighter timings get better scores.
 
Of course higher frequency generally gives better performance but timings may not be as clear cut. I'm also talking about real world results, not these contrived memory testing schemes that don't really access memory the way a system typically does. Blocks of code are loaded into the processor cache and run from there. It's only when the necessary blocks aren't in cache that ram is accessed and although that does happen to some degree, especially with jumps, it's not exactly a constant drag on the system. When those blocks are read into the cache, the timings are usually only relevant when the burst starts, it is only in truly random access that timings become more critical. Now, I'm not saying timings have no significance at all, but I think you'll find the real world difference isn't quite as large as those reviews seem to imply.
 
it never is, thats why the synthetic test matter as they show the smallest of differences which will have an impact on real world task, even if it is only a small amount.

i do know 1 thing about these test tho mate, if you score higher in maxxmem or aida64 mem test you will do better in any other cpu intensive app or benchmark such as folding or rendering and encoding.
 
Okay MODS, before I start rambling on again and continue beating this dead horse, what started out as a simple interest in seeing TTL take an unskewed unbiased no BS real world look at RAM freq. vs timings, and not canned mem tests, has now become more of a thread discussing said topic and should probably be moved from TTLC to the Memory forum.

Now to continue: Yes, it is true that cpu intensive apps, especially those operating on very large blocks of data, will be affected more by latency since the cache is being bled dry much quicker and more often than a typical app. Let's face it, the L3 cache of an i7 990x, for example, is still only 12MB, and even running at stock, it still has to feed 6 cores at 3.46GHz. The processor still has to do operations on the data, though, which takes cpu clocks, so it will not be constantly sucking the cache dry every nanosecond. If we look at the number of times the cpu will likely hit that RAM access wall, even with preemptive caching, it could still be many tens of thousands of times per second. The typical tight vs loose timing advantage is 2 clocks and that will only be seen at the beginning of each burst. For the sake of argument, lets say we have 2000MHz RAM and 100,000 times per second execution is delayed due to data block transfers. We take the additional 2 clock hit with cheaper RAM, that's 200,000 clocks at RAM speed which totals 100 microseconds delay every second. That means, even in this intensive scenario, you would only loose 1 second per 1000 seconds (16 minutes and 40 seconds). That's 86.4 seconds per day, and even if it were 4 times that, it would still only be 5 minutes and 45.6 seconds per day. Not the massive benefit one might be led to believe, but in the long run, over weeks and months of 24/7 computing, it could become more significant. Granted, this is a rather simplistic look at the issue and there is a little more to it, but I think, to state the obvious, we can all agree that higher frequency at the same timing would show far more benefit than tighter timing at the same frequency. Of course, getting the lowest latency RAM at the highest frequency your processor can handle is the best of both worlds. No surprise there.

All that being said, even I still opted for CL7 RAM instead of 8 or 9. Why, you ask? Just because I can and that's what I wanted. LOL And so there you have it, even if it meant only a very tiny performance improvement, that's what I chose.

Well, it's been fun kicking this back and forth; that's what forums are for, right? So don't anyone go getting their panties in a bunch over it; it's all good.

So yeah, Tom, if you're even looking at this thing (probably not), just thought it would be interesting to see your take on it, that's all. If ya-all want to move the thread, lock it, delete it, whatever... no biggie. Enjoy.
 
see so you understand it too
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sorry if your think i invaded you thread mate but it is the idea of a forum, open debate, and in doing so i was only trying to point out that the issue you have raised is already covered in the last couple of ram reviews but it has been on higher speed and cas rated sticks than you are on about which highlight the differences you speak of in that post more.

i do agree with your idea about a ttl vid on ram but i would be more interested in seeing toms thoughts and findings about the current ram and the new 30nm stuff samsung have released and how their performance (stock and clocked) is impacted by subtimings more than the main 4 tbh.

as you pointed out there, there is a lot more to ram than just faster and tighter are better (thats what he said BOOM BOOM) and the timings on the whole play a massive impact, its all about efficiency.
 
LOL, mate, what 'invade'? As you said, forums are for open debate. There's no such thing as 'invading' a forum thread. It's just a forum, not my home. You have just as much right to chime in here as I have. Those who whine and chuff about it are pathetic. I welcome the debate; that's what it's all about in any forum. Sometimes I like to stir the pot a little too.

Of course, I've understood the issue right from the beginning. Bottom line is timings, sub and main, really don't have 'that massive' of an overall impact in the grand scheme of things for most users. Sure, efficiency is what it's all about and for those who want to eek out every niggling little bit of additional performance, knock yourselves out, buy the lowest latency stuff out there. It's just that too many of these tests and reviews are aimed at the extreme, and that's fine, but it really doesn't address the main stream. I'm just saying 'most' people simply won't notice in real world use; that's been my point all along. Doesn't mean they should stop trying to make faster and tighter. I'm eager to see just how far they can push the envelope and it's possible we'll see it make even more of a difference as they massage the microcode. There are also limits to what the current architecture can handle and that will have to change as well. I'd love to see timings be more pertinent for the everyday user, but for now, it's just not worth agonizing over and all those settings can be pretty daunting for the uninitiated. But even still, for most of us, faster is better even if we don't really need it.

Just throw a couple nVidia Tesla cards in there and use the 1024 CUDA cores for massive parallel processing if you really want a performance boost, then maybe memory timing will actually begin to make more of a difference.
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Relax my friend. That last statement, although true, was just a friendly little jab between forum buddies, all in good fun. Wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything, that's just not my style. See the smiley face.
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Interesting debate, heck, I even enjoyed the math.
 
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