First Loop - Rethought out

[Surfie]

Hi all,

So following my first theoretical venture into water cooling, and getting pretty well told to "go away and re-think what you are trying to do": I have done precisely that. For those that don't remember/weren't around at the time, I was told to re-think my case choice, and parts choice for my loop.

Due to budgetary concerns, I had to put the whole thing on hold for a while (approximately 1 year!). In that time, I have rethought what I am wanting to achieve, and what parts I would like to get.

The goals of the loop:
Water cool my CPU and graphics card, allowing some headroom to water cool my motherboard if I wish to down the track, while maintaining a near silent PC.

The parts:
XSPC EX360 Raystorm bundle: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=24223
XSPC EX120 Radiator (basically a second rad to sit on the normal exhaust port of the case): http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18732
XSPC GTX680 GPU Waterblock (Fear not, my research shows that it will fit my card!): http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21375
Corsair SP120 fans: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23805
New case (That's right, i'm ditching the overseer RX-1!) NZXT Phantom 530: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23871. Quite likely that i will ditch the case fans as well, and run more or less only the Corsair fans above...

Now, my questions/issues:
I'm going to need some sort of thermal compound. The only one I know of that is any good is Arctic Silver, and i've heard that this is not really very good for water cooling. So, any ideas on what I should use?

Anti Fungal: I've heard a mixed bag of theories on what I should use to keep the loop clean... ultimately my choice (as I understand it) is Silver Coil or Biocide. Which is better/less maintenance? Do I need to be concerned with corrosion?

Dye: I intend to use Mayhems dye, but are there any concerns I need to be aware of with using dye? Should I just stick with De-mineralised water?

Fittings: I intend to use compression fittings (I like the look), but should I be looking for a particular type to reduce chances of corrosion? Most of what I can see seems to be chrome. Does this react with the copper that would be inside my rads/waterblocks?

Finally: Any suggestions on what I should consider in relation to the loop itself would be MUCH appreciated...

Intended purchase date: 1-2 weeks.

Cheers!

Surfie

 

[Cru]

honestly noone here really likes single 120 rads, they just make your loop look bad imo. can't you put a 240 in the front of the case?

i like to use noctua nt-h1, but arctic silver should be fine as well. why wouldn't it be good for watercooling? didn't hear anything about that

regulars on here kinda hate mayhems now after what happened with toms rig, with a good coolant like xspc's you don't really have to worry about corrosion either

 

[Surfie]

honestly noone here really likes single 120 rads, they just make your loop look bad imo. can't you put a 240 in the front of the case?

I can probably put a 240 on the floor at the front. The concern there is that I would almost have to have the loop go: Rad-> pump/Res-> Rad#2 -> CPU -> GPU -> Beginning. I'm not sure how having the pump/res between the two rads would impact performance.

i like to use noctua nt-h1, but arctic silver should be fine as well. why wouldn't it be good for watercooling? didn't hear anything about that

I heard that it runs too much making the water block inefficient at cooling somewhat.... given the source, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a crock, but I figure it's better to ask those that know better to be sure...

regulars on here kinda hate mayhems now after what happened with toms rig, with a good coolant like xspc's you don't really have to worry about corrosion either

Ummm - is this to do with the dye not staying the right colour in the Orca build? or something else? If it's something else, i'm WAY out of the loop on it. If it is the Orca thing, I thought that all got sorted out?

 

[Cru]

I can probably put a 240 on the floor at the front. The concern there is that I would almost have to have the loop go: Rad-> pump/Res-> Rad#2 -> CPU -> GPU -> Beginning. I'm not sure how having the pump/res between the two rads would impact performance.



I heard that it runs too much making the water block inefficient at cooling somewhat.... given the source, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a crock, but I figure it's better to ask those that know better to be sure...



Ummm - is this to do with the dye not staying the right colour in the Orca build? or something else? If it's something else, i'm WAY out of the loop on it. If it is the Orca thing, I thought that all got sorted out?

loop order doesn't affect performance much with a good pump like a D5, maybe by like 2° - so just go for best looks

well the colour went to chocolate and then they blamed him for screwing up, saying he did something wrong otherwise it would've stayed black. afaik there's not much sorted with mayhems. he got a package from specialtech(?) containing some xspc coolant and other stuff

 

[Remmy]

Now, my questions/issues:
I'm going to need some sort of thermal compound. The only one I know of that is any good is Arctic Silver, and i've heard that this is not really very good for water cooling. So, any ideas on what I should use?

Anti Fungal: I've heard a mixed bag of theories on what I should use to keep the loop clean... ultimately my choice (as I understand it) is Silver Coil or Biocide. Which is better/less maintenance? Do I need to be concerned with corrosion?

Dye: I intend to use Mayhems dye, but are there any concerns I need to be aware of with using dye? Should I just stick with De-mineralised water?

Fittings: I intend to use compression fittings (I like the look), but should I be looking for a particular type to reduce chances of corrosion? Most of what I can see seems to be chrome. Does this react with the copper that would be inside my rads/waterblocks?

Don't use AS5 for the GPU blocks because it is conductive, and while that's usually fine for CPU blocks, it's a bit more of a worry with GPU blocks I think, so look for a good non-conductive thermal paste. There's loads of reviews/comparisons online.

For the dye if you just get a premix e.g. Mayhems X1 (this is fine, not Pastel or Aurora though; that's what everyone has a problem with) then it includes everything you need so no need to add biocides or coils.

IMO compression fittings are always the way to go because of the look, and a little bit of extra security. I use nickel and chrome compressions with copper blocks and radiators, and everything is fine.

honestly noone here really likes single 120 rads, they just make your loop look bad imo. can't you put a 240 in the front of the case?

i like to use noctua nt-h1, but arctic silver should be fine as well. why wouldn't it be good for watercooling? didn't hear anything about that

regulars on here kinda hate mayhems now after what happened with toms rig, with a good coolant like xspc's you don't really have to worry about corrosion either

+1 about the 120mm rad, however in my opinion Mayhem dye is fine IF you use the X1 range, and not Pastel or Aurora.

I can probably put a 240 on the floor at the front. The concern there is that I would almost have to have the loop go: Rad-> pump/Res-> Rad#2 -> CPU -> GPU -> Beginning. I'm not sure how having the pump/res between the two rads would impact performance.

I heard that it runs too much making the water block inefficient at cooling somewhat.... given the source, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a crock, but I figure it's better to ask those that know better to be sure...

Ummm - is this to do with the dye not staying the right colour in the Orca build? or something else? If it's something else, i'm WAY out of the loop on it. If it is the Orca thing, I thought that all got sorted out?

If you can get a 240mm in the bottom, DO, it'd be so much better than the 120mm. The loop order is really insignificant. Mine is Res>D5>240 rad>GPU2>GPU1>CPU>360 rad. So my res/pump are sandwiched between rads too, and it's not a problem

And yes, it's because Tom's black Pastel coolant is now hot chocolate coloured.

loop order doesn't affect performance much with a good pump like a D5, maybe by like 2° - so just go for best looks

I've gotta say one of the biggest reasons I love the DE keyboard layout is for the ° key up in the top left, it's so useful on the forums for discussing temps: I presume you use it too with you being from Germany?

 

[Cru]

I've gotta say one of the biggest reasons I love the DE keyboard layout is for the ° key up in the top left, it's so useful on the forums for discussing temps: I presume you use it too with you being from Germany?

on my laptop, yeah
US layout on my PC though, kinda missing the degree symbol

 

[NeverBackDown]

Corsair SP120 QE's are loud. Even on 7v. I can clearly hear mine over everything else in my case on idle and on load(though GPU gets louder-still able to hear it though).

 

[Cru]

Corsair SP120 QE's are loud. Even on 7v. I can clearly hear mine over everything else in my case on idle and on load(though GPU gets louder-still able to hear it though).

can't confirm that. i got 16 SP120 QEs at 7v and they are pretty silent

 

[Surfie]

Are the sp120s worth putting into push/pull? I would have expected that they would have been better for push or pull only...

Is there much gain from using both?

 

[NeverBackDown]

Are the sp120s worth putting into push/pull? I would have expected that they would have been better for push or pull only...

Is there much gain from using both?

the gain with any decent fan will be less than 5C on your load temps. Honestly not worth the extra money, cabling, and noise over a single set of fans and possibly a thicker rad which will give more temp reduction than push and pull.

In regards to the Corsair SP QE though .. It all depends on the person. I have very good hearing so i pick up on noise quite easily, thus why my 2 SP's are very loud to me... my stock intel cooler is more quiet lol

 

[SuB]

push pull is a mixed bag and only really gives you temp gains on crap fans. The idea being it creates more pressure, but if you're using decent high static pressure fans, you can just leave one set on there just fine.

AS5 is fine for cpu, and tbh, if you're careful it's fine on gpu's as well, but if you're inexperienced just get some non-conductive stuff.

Fittings wise, get chromed ones and you're fine, nickel can play up a bit with copper but not as severely as aluminium. (avoid putting alu in a copper loop).

Go with a premix, Mayhems X1 or Feser One are both good, I've used feser in a couple of rigs and its never done me wrong, and it comes in a range of premixed colours which hold their colour really well.

Avoid Pastel and Aurora, Aurora is for 'show' builds and isn't meant to be a long term solution, and Pastel isn't great for looks after a month or two. It cools well enough and nothing will grow in it, ever, because it's toxic as f**k. But the colours don't match anything you'll see anywhere, you'll have to add dye to it (more expense) and after a couple of months it seems to take it upon itself to change colour altogether anyway

The rest.. well.. you'll figure it out I think.

Ditch the 120mm rad.. they don't give enough gains in performance to be worth it, stick with the 240 idea, and the pump will be fine in-between the rads, if anything it will make bleeding a little easier. Just get a decent D5 and you'll be golden!

 

[Surfie]

Thanks everyone for your feedback so far. Given the parts list, I guess ive got the ball in more or less the right zone - which is goo to know!

Given that I have not yet found a waterblock for my motherboard, should I consider ditching the extra 240 (note: not 120 now, based on this feedback) RAD altogether for now, and pick it up when I find somewhere that does have the waterblock for my CPU? Or, should I get the 240 anyway, and use it as future proofing my rig against the day I do get the mobo block?

 

[Bartacus]

I'd still get the 240. Having more rad is never a bad thing, as you can run the fans lower for a quieter system. You'll never regret having more rad space.

 

[Remmy]

Corsair SP120 QE's are loud. Even on 7v. I can clearly hear mine over everything else in my case on idle and on load(though GPU gets louder-still able to hear it though).

can't confirm that. i got 16 SP120 QEs at 7v and they are pretty silent

I've gotta say for my tastes I agree with NBD here, I tried removing my fan controller and running my (10) SP120 QEs and 1 AF140 QE at 7v, and I found them to be too loud. I put my fan controller back in, which I think runs them at 5v on the minimum setting, which is silent as far as I can tell.

Are the sp120s worth putting into push/pull? I would have expected that they would have been better for push or pull only...

Is there much gain from using both?

I've had very little, if any, temp loss from adding more SP120 QEs so that both rads were in push pull, but I didn't care about that, I only went push/pull for aesthetics

 

[Surfie]

I've gotta say for my tastes I agree with NBD here, I tried removing my fan controller and running my (10) SP120 QEs and 1 AF140 QE at 7v, and I found them to be too loud. I put my fan controller back in, which I think runs them at 5v on the minimum setting, which is silent as far as I can tell.

Hmmm.... starting to sound like I may need to consider adding a fan controller (althought, the NZXT case i'm ordering has one build in I thought?). Will I need any particular one? Or would the one in the case be sufficient?

 

[Remmy]

Hmmm.... starting to sound like I may need to consider adding a fan controller (althought, the NZXT case i'm ordering has one build in I thought?). Will I need any particular one? Or would the one in the case be sufficient?

Well it's just personal taste. You can always add a fan controller if you feel it needs one later on, maybe see what 7v is like for you first. One thing to note though, and I'm not sure if it's my fans (SP120) or my fan controller (NZXT Sentry Mix), but when you turn the fans up, they make a clicking noise, which is drowned out by games but be aware, it happens. I've heard several others report the same thing too.

If you do want one, the one in your case probably doesn't have many channels, so depending on how many fans you get it depends as to whether the built in one is enough or you need one with more channels. Mine is 6 channels, each powering 2 fans (except 1, just powering 1 fan). But like I say, I'd see what it's like at 7v first.

 

[Surfie]

Well it's just personal taste. You can always add a fan controller if you feel it needs one later on, maybe see what 7v is like for you first. One thing to note though, and I'm not sure if it's my fans (SP120) or my fan controller (NZXT Sentry Mix), but when you turn the fans up, they make a clicking noise, which is drowned out by games but be aware, it happens. I've heard several others report the same thing too.

The Phantom 530 comes with connectors for up to 10 fans by default, which is then connected to the fan controller switch on the case. I do not know whether this limits the voltage or not. Regardless, i'll suck it and see.

If needed (as you said) I can always order a fan controller later.

Any other ideas for silent fans? I was going off of the fan review that [Edit: Tom] did on the Corsair SP120's, which is why I looked at them in the first place...

 

[Remmy]

The Phantom 530 comes with connectors for up to 10 fans by default, which is then connected to the fan controller switch on the case. I do not know whether this limits the voltage or not. Regardless, i'll suck it and see.

If needed (as you said) I can always order a fan controller later.

Any other ideas for silent fans? I was going off of the fan review that Tim did on the Corsair SP120's, which is why I looked at them in the first place...

So is it just a fan splitter like comes on the Switch 810 that I have, where you stick 12V in via Molex, and it has a selection of 3 pin fan headers? Or does it actually have some kind of voltage control on them?

I'm not that sure to be honest, I kind of lose interest in what's good once I've already chosen and bought what I wanted. Despite the clicking when the fans are on max, I don't regret my choice because I never hear it anyway as I only turn fans up for gaming, and I think they're among the best looking fans you can get at the moment, if that type of thing bothers you at all.

By the way, who is this Tim person?

 

[Surfie]

So is it just a fan splitter like comes on the Switch 810 that I have, where you stick 12V in via Molex, and it has a selection of 3 pin fan headers? Or does it actually have some kind of voltage control on them?

Yes, very much the same as that...

I'm not that sure to be honest, I kind of lose interest in what's good once I've already chosen and bought what I wanted. Despite the clicking when the fans are on max, I don't regret my choice because I never hear it anyway as I only turn fans up for gaming, and I think they're among the best looking fans you can get at the moment, if that type of thing bothers you at all.

To be honest, i'm more concerned by performance than looks, but if it is close, then i'll take the looks as an added bonus. I'm not sure that actually made sense. Let me clarify:
If Fan A is slightly better performing but looks like rubbish compared to Fan B, then I would go for Fan B, assuming it is close in terms of performance (remembering that my goal is as close to silent as possible, while still having ok-ish temps - so this is my performance measuring stick: Ok pressure while being very quiet).

I hope that this makes sense....

By the way, who is this Tim person?

<facepalm> Ugh, of ALL the places to typo... Thanks for pointing it out. I've gone back and edited it to be correct. And yes, it was meant to be Tom...(got it right this time).

 

[Remmy]

To be honest, i'm more concerned by performance than looks, but if it is close, then i'll take the looks as an added bonus. I'm not sure that actually made sense. Let me clarify:
If Fan A is slightly better performing but looks like rubbish compared to Fan B, then I would go for Fan B, assuming it is close in terms of performance (remembering that my goal is as close to silent as possible, while still having ok-ish temps - so this is my performance measuring stick: Ok pressure while being very quiet).

I hope that this makes sense....

Well I'll just say try the SP120 QEs at 7v and see if they're quiet enough, otherwise get a fan controller. Other than that, wait to see if anybody else has a better recommendation for you