Custom VS AIO ?

[Shadowman007]

While laying on my bed i was wondering how would a custom loop a 280mm Radiator 60mm thick in push/pull with good pump and water block fair up against a AIO water cooling. Something like a NZXT Kraken X60 In push/pull also? Will I see any difference in temps?

 

[Cru]

You should see quite a difference since then rad on the x60 is quite thin
but it's gonna be more expensive if done properly

 

[seumasbeathan]

The temps would be much better /end

 

[Feronix]

Temps would be much better, price would be much higher when going custom

 

[alpenwasser]

Unless you do something seriously wrong in your custom loop (let's assume you don't), the AIO would not stand a chance performance-wise.

However, you will need to sacrifice a virgin and a goat for the custom loop (or pay a lot more money compared to the AIO, I sometimes confuse these things :headscratch.

 

[Shadowman007]

Thanks for the replies guys. So if the performance is that good with custom setup what about a custom 240 radiator? as there are more options with fans. So how would a 240 compare to a 280 AIO?

 

[Cru]

Thanks for the replies guys. So if the performance is that good with custom setup what about a custom 240 radiator? as there are more options with fans. So how would a 240 compare to a 280 AIO?

if you're talking 240 60mm thick it would be better

 

[airdeano]

the 240 vs 280 with same thickness radiators and relatively similar fans the 280 would
be a better just due to the size of capacity and surface area. the 280 should run
quieter (less fan speed).
but the 140mm fan market is nowhere comparable to the 120mm market. depending
on your bat-like hearing some 140 fans can really be tuned to move a lot of air
and be quiet (not silent). but in the 120 market, there are quiet fans with flow
potential.

 

[Shadowman007]

the 240 vs 280 with same thickness radiators and relatively similar fans the 280 would
be a better just due to the size of capacity and surface area. the 280 should run
quieter (less fan speed).
but the 140mm fan market is nowhere comparable to the 120mm market. depending
on your bat-like hearing some 140 fans can really be tuned to move a lot of air
and be quiet (not silent). but in the 120 market, there are quiet fans with flow
potential.

The 240 would be 60mm thick vs 280mm (NZXT Kraken X60) at 27mm thick and both in push. The 240 would have the Noctua NF-F12 PWM Fans while the NZXT Kraken X60 will be using the fans it comes with.

 

[NeverBackDown]

The 240 would be 60mm thick vs 280mm (NZXT Kraken X60) at 27mm thick and both in push. The 240 would have the Noctua NF-F12 PWM Fans while the NZXT Kraken X60 will be using the fans it comes with.

Not much of a comparison. The 240 will dominate the X60 and be much quieter but more expensive.

 

[hdeezie80]

While laying on my bed i was wondering how would a custom loop a 280mm Radiator 60mm thick in push/pull with good pump and water block fair up against a AIO water cooling. Something like a NZXT Kraken X60 In push/pull also? Will I see any difference in temps?

compared to a 27 mm radiator with a budget pump (AIO loop) yeah you would see a big difference, especially with a d5 you would have a way higher flowrate, fat radiators are good for low speed fans too so it would be way more quite, plus you can always add more rad space later on you don't get that option with an all in 1

 

[PetetheSweet]

It's pretty easy, a 240x120x60mm low FPI count Radiator got so much cooling surface that it almost can cool a CPU, without active cooling when not on load.
Fans on a Rad like this can run very low and because of the low FPI count, there is not very much air restriction and its very effective.
In addition to that a custom Loop CPU cooling Block and a decent Pump works much better then AIO's.

 

[alpenwasser]

Just out of curiousity, I tried to get a rough estimate of actual surface area for the Kraken X60 and the Alphacool UT60 240 mm.

Assumptions

• Total radiator height will be assumed to also be the fin height. Fin height is less in practice of course, but for a rough calculation the difference won't matter that much.
• Nominal radiator dimensions will be used (280*140 mm^2 and 240*120 mm^2, respectively)
• The width of the tubes will not be taken into account.
• The Alphacool's outer fin rows are partially covered by the radiator housing and are less wide than the inner rows from what I can tell (I have one here in my machine). There are 11 full width rows and 2 smaller ones that are partially covered. I have therefore taken 12 as my number for the calculations.

[b]FPI[/b]
Kraken X60:            24   fins/inch [url=http://computersandcircuits.com/content/review-nzxt-kraken-x40-and-x60-page-3-closer-look#.UVQyiXEhvmF]Source[/url]
Alphacool UT60 240 mm:  9.6 fins/inch [url=http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/12/alphacool-nexxxos-ut60-360-radiator/2/]Source[/url]

[b]Thickness[/b]
X60:  27 mm [url=http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/cpu_cooler/kraken_x60]Source[/url]
UT60: 60 mm [url=http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p983_Alphacool-NexXxoS-UT60-Full-Copper-240mm.html]Source[/url]

[b]Number of Rows (Manual Count)[/b]
X60:  14
UT60: 12

[b]Width of 1 Fin[/b]
X60:  140 mm / 14 = 10 mm
UT60: 120 mm / 12 = 10 mm

[b]Surface Area for 1 Fin[/b]
X60:  10 * 27 mm^2 = 270 mm^2
UT60: 10 * 60 mm^2 = 600 mm^2
(wow, that was a tricky one ;))

[b]Total Number of Fins[/b]
X60:   24 fins / 25.4 mm * 280 mm * 14 = approx. 3700 fins
UT60: 9.6 fins / 25.4 mm * 240 mm * 12 = approx. 1270 fins

[b]Total Surface Area (Approx.)[/b]
X60:   24 fins / 25.4 mm * 280 mm * 14 * 270 mm^2 / fin = [color=blue][b]1 m^2[/b][/color]
UT60: 9.6 fins / 25.4 mm * 240 mm * 12 * 600 mm^2 / fin = [color=blue][b]0.65 m^2[/b][/color]

Firstly, if someone sees a significant error in my calculations, feel free to point it out. There's no point to this if all we're getting is BS

Anyway, assuming this is more or less correct, the 60 mm thick 240 rad has significantly less surface area than the Kraken. I was actually kind of surprised by how large the difference is (well, maybe the surprise lies in a calculative error ).

However, since high FPI massively increases air resistance, I would still expect the UT60 to soundly beat the X60, unless maybe the latter was running with some 5000 rpm Delta fans or something like that.

But for fans with reasonable noise levels, the UT60 would hand the X60 its rear end on a silver platter I would wager.

 

[PetetheSweet]

Thats the Problem, you can technically even put more fins on this small Surface (X60), with no benefit in cooling.

The UT60 is a full Copper Rad and because of the FPI count, it's almost able to cool just with convection (don't know the right term), when e.g. installed in the Roof.

 

[alpenwasser]

convection (don't know the right term)

That is indeed the right term if I recall my thermo correctly

I think I need to give this a shot with my UT60 360mm today. It is mounted in the roof. Need to disable BOINC first, though :lol:

Will post results in a few hours.

 

[alpenwasser]

Alright, I will allow myself a double post here so that the interested parties get a "New Post in Thread So and So" message in their inbox.


[size=+1]General Info[/size]

The components that are dumping heat into the water loop are as follows:

• CPU: Intel i7 2600k @ Stock
• HDD: 4 x WD RE2 TB (8.2 W idle, 1.2W sleep/standby)
• HDD: 3 x Samsung HD103UJ (TDP unknown, somewhere b/w 5 ~ 10 W I'd estimate, most likely less than the RE4's since temps for the Samsungs are consistently lower by about 4 C)
• HDD: 1 x Samsung HD753LJ (TDP see above)

Some additional info:

• Case: Xigmatek Elysium
• Radiator: As mentioned, an Alphacool Full Copper UT60 360 mm, bolted to the case top
• Top Radiator Filter has been taken off. It's just the actual stamped roof mesh above the rad.
• Case fans: 1 present, turned off for testing
• Radiator Fans: 3 x Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition, turned off, but still mounted to the bottom of the radiator
• CPU Block: EK Supreme HF

[size=+1]Idle Test[/size]

After six hours on internet browsing and light office work, my temps were

• Core 0: 45 C
• Core 1: 46 C
• Core 2: 45 C
• Core 3: 46 C

Ambient Temp: 21.2 C (max)


[size=+1]Full Load Test[/size]

For shits and giggles, after making my notes, I switched BOINC (something similar to Folding @ Home, for those who don't know) back on to fully load the CPU (nominal TDP @ full load on stock voltages is 95 W for the 2600k).

So, after one hour of CPU @ 100% with BOINC (it's not Prime, but still), my temps had stabilized at:

• Core 0: 71 C
• Core 1: 76 C
• Core 2: 75 C
• Core 3: 74 C

Ambient Temp: 22.4 C (max)

Since my system is usually running 24/7 @ 100 % with BOINC, I left it running.

Temps stayed at those levels for another hour, and, interestingly, after another 20 minutes, went back down to around 70~71 C. Must have gotten some new work units that weren't as taxing on the CPU.


[size=+1]Conclusion[/size]

It is entirely possible to passively cool a PC with some serious horsepower with a 360 60 mm low FPI radiator, even without any case fans, and even on full load. If I were to take off the Corsair fans from the radiator, temps could probably be improved due to less restriction for convection to do its thing (though I doubt by much).

I realize that the question here was actually about a 240 mm radiator, but considering that I dump quite a bit of additional heat into the system with my 8 HDDs (and I won't dismantle my loop just to test it without them), I think the proof of concept that a 240 mm 60 mm radiator could passively cool a decent system has been a success.

Side Notes

• The temps on my RE4's rose to 56 C during the full load test, recommended max spec is 55 C . Usually, I keep them around 40 C (something between 40 C and 44 C is optimal for HDD life expectancy, according to large scale studies done by Google).
• I've done measurements with a thermometer in the past, and water temperature was always within about 3 C of the RE4 temperatures, so I think it's safe to estimate that coolant temperature was above 50 C during the full load test.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Thanks for that huge informative post!