Audio Upgrade....STX/D2X/Phoebus??

[looz]

Yep, that's what I use. Not much of a difference, just that when a game crashes with UNi Xonar the sound of it wont keep looping in the background.

 

[alxcsb]

Haven't read through all the posts cause I can't be bothered at this time in the morning, but I know for a fact, from testing personally and from a lot of reviews that not even sound engineers and people that are used to listening to 5 figure sound systems can tell the difference between an on-board and Asus something-something sound cards. The only real way of improving the sound is by investing in a receiver and some speakers, although the Edifiers you have now are pretty well above average.

 

[sn8kedr]

Haven't read through all the posts cause I can't be bothered at this time in the morning, but I know for a fact, from testing personally and from a lot of reviews that not even sound engineers and people that are used to listening to 5 figure sound systems can tell the difference between an on-board and Asus something-something sound cards. The only real way of improving the sound is by investing in a receiver and some speakers, although the Edifiers you have now are pretty well above average.

Really - no discernible difference at all?? I am surprised at that since it seems there are plenty of arguments to the contrary. Not that I am suggesting you're wrong, I just think that personally I can hear a difference. However everyone's impressions of audio are very subjective.....all I can say is I love the STX and can't wait to get my hands on some better cans.

 

[cuylar]

Really - no discernible difference at all?? I am surprised at that since it seems there are plenty of arguments to the contrary. Not that I am suggesting you're wrong, I just think that personally I can hear a difference. However everyone's impressions of audio are very subjective.....all I can say is I love the STX and can't wait to get my hands on some better cans.

I sincerely suggest you read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

 

[looz]

Haven't read through all the posts cause I can't be bothered at this time in the morning, but I know for a fact, from testing personally and from a lot of reviews that not even sound engineers and people that are used to listening to 5 figure sound systems can tell the difference between an on-board and Asus something-something sound cards. The only real way of improving the sound is by investing in a receiver and some speakers, although the Edifiers you have now are pretty well above average.

I am rather sceptic about this, many onboards have audible noise at higher audio levels which just doesn't happen with my Xonar.

In addition it isn't just output audio quality, microphone quality is significantly improved, it's easy to spot people using on-board audio for microphones on voice chats. In addition not many on-boards can run high-end headphones due to higher impedance.

I know the article you're referring to, though, here. But that isn't the only blind test around, for example this contradicts with the blind test ran by tom's hardware.

But indeed, audio is often quite subjective.

 

[SuB]

Haven't read through all the posts cause I can't be bothered at this time in the morning, but I know for a fact, from testing personally and from a lot of reviews that not even sound engineers and people that are used to listening to 5 figure sound systems can tell the difference between an on-board and Asus something-something sound cards. The only real way of improving the sound is by investing in a receiver and some speakers, although the Edifiers you have now are pretty well above average.

Perhaps you should have read the thread, because we can tell the difference.

Don't bother posting if you literally can't be arsed to read the rest of the thread.

 

[alxcsb]

Perhaps you should have read the thread, because we can tell the difference.

Don't bother posting if you literally can't be arsed to read the rest of the thread.

No, you can't tell any difference, because there isn't any. Do a proper, honest, blind test, and you will not be able to tell if it's on-board or Xonar. Without a blind test you say there's a difference because you want to justify the 100 odd quid you paid for that.

 

[cuylar]

No, you can't tell any difference, because there isn't any. Do a proper, honest, blind test, and you will not be able to tell if it's on-board or Xonar. Without a blind test you say there's a difference because you want to justify the 100 odd quid you paid for that.

Being polite is usually a better way to get our point across.

My argument in this debate is that the Xonar STX and the Formula VI/RIVBE use the EXACT SAME chips. The caps are different but could be argued but at the end of the day we use measurements to make logical choices.

You can't say that the numbers mean nothing or you might as well say a yard and a meter are the same.... they aren't.

Humans are weird. We make irrational decisions and choices based on largely emotional reasoning. When it comes to sound... it can be a hard sale without playing on the emotions... For example... are you really going to tell someone that they are hearing it wrong? If you do, will they admit they could have been duped or defend that they experienced an improvement.

• Justifying an investment is one reason why something might sound different to one person than another...
• Some people are happier with specific tones of sound...
• Some people need specific input/output jacks...

I wasn't comparing the onboard audio from a motherboard made in 2001... It's not the budget board audio... I'm comparing the exact same headphone amplifier, similar caps, and as far as a digital processor is concerned if the chip can process the audio we are in business.


I can show the exact same part numbers on both and people still claim that one is better. How can you possibly do that?

Configure 3 systems side by side... one with the SupremeFX, one with the STx and one with the Phoebus. Throw it on a switch and don't look.


Use some good headphones, 300ohm or something that will pick up the issues.


There are benefits to sound cards.


Those benefits are not always going to be heard. Rarely will they ever be heard by an average gamer/computer user. Many of the people who care so much about this topic take insult to the thought that there may not be the dramatic difference that once was.


For someone watching movies, games, listening to MP3s, or anything like this... use a quality onboard solution. If your life revolves around FLAC files and perfection.... go external... Xonar Essence One.


I'm probably past the $0.02 and getting close to $1.00 on this topic... but it seems like breaking the sound card addiction is similar to breaking the PSU over-wattage advice some other people give.

 

[alxcsb]

Being polite is usually a better way to get our point across.

My argument in this debate is that the Xonar STX and the Formula VI/RIVBE use the EXACT SAME chips. The caps are different but could be argued but at the end of the day we use measurements to make logical choices.

You can't say that the numbers mean nothing or you might as well say a yard and a meter are the same.... they aren't.

Humans are weird. We make irrational decisions and choices based on largely emotional reasoning. When it comes to sound... it can be a hard sale without playing on the emotions... For example... are you really going to tell someone that they are hearing it wrong? If you do, will they admit they could have been duped or defend that they experienced an improvement.

• Justifying an investment is one reason why something might sound different to one person than another...
• Some people are happier with specific tones of sound...
• Some people need specific input/output jacks...

I wasn't comparing the onboard audio from a motherboard made in 2001... It's not the budget board audio... I'm comparing the exact same headphone amplifier, similar caps, and as far as a digital processor is concerned if the chip can process the audio we are in business.


I can show the exact same part numbers on both and people still claim that one is better. How can you possibly do that?

Configure 3 systems side by side... one with the SupremeFX, one with the STx and one with the Phoebus. Throw it on a switch and don't look.


Use some good headphones, 300ohm or something that will pick up the issues.


There are benefits to sound cards.


Those benefits are not always going to be heard. Rarely will they ever be heard by an average gamer/computer user. Many of the people who care so much about this topic take insult to the thought that there may not be the dramatic difference that once was.


For someone watching movies, games, listening to MP3s, or anything like this... use a quality onboard solution. If your life revolves around FLAC files and perfection.... go external... Xonar Essence One.


I'm probably past the $0.02 and getting close to $1.00 on this topic... but it seems like breaking the sound card addiction is similar to breaking the PSU over-wattage advice some other people give.

I apologize if my wording came across as impolite, didn't mean to offend anyone. I did some testing a couple of years ago, using a Xonar STX and the Realtek 892, three different pairs of headphones (Panasonic HTF600, Philips SHL3300 and Denon D1100), a Microlab FC360 2.1 and an older Technics EH760 Hi-Fi. I sent the STX back because I honestly couldn't tell it apart from the on-board. Now, I am not a professional in this field, I just think that if it is sound quality you are after, that 100 odd quid is much better spent on speakers or headphones. If it is features and usability you're after, yes, get a soundcard, internal, external, whatever. I still maintain that there is no difference in sound quality between the two. That is all I'm saying.

 

[cuylar]

I apologize if my wording came across as impolite, didn't mean to offend anyone. I did some testing a couple of years ago, using a Xonar STX and the Realtek 892, three different pairs of headphones (Panasonic HTF600, Philips SHL3300 and Denon D1100), a Microlab FC360 2.1 and an older Technics EH760 Hi-Fi. I sent the STX back because I honestly couldn't tell it apart from the on-board. Now, I am not a professional in this field, I just think that if it is sound quality you are after, that 100 odd quid is much better spent on speakers or headphones. If it is features and usability you're after, yes, get a soundcard, internal, external, whatever. I still maintain that there is no difference in sound quality between the two. That is all I'm saying.

I couldn't agree more that money should be spent on the speaker/headphone before any investment in a card should be made.

 

[sn8kedr]

No offence taken here mate. I appreciate the info and advice in your posts.

My perceptions of the sound quality may very well be solely due to my head telling me cos I forked out the cash for it it must be better than my on-board audio.

In any case for the moment I'm enjoying the card and being able to take advantage of the features from the audio center drivers which feel like I have more control (this may simply be because I didn't explore the options too much on the on-board solution).

Once I have the DT880's I'll get my mate to setup up scenarios with both the STX and on-board audio and try a 'blind test' myself, at least that will give me a better idea on where my head sits with this personally.

 

[Lazlo]

Being polite is usually a better way to get our point across.

My argument in this debate is that the Xonar STX and the Formula VI/RIVBE use the EXACT SAME chips. The caps are different but could be argued but at the end of the day we use measurements to make logical choices.

You can't say that the numbers mean nothing or you might as well say a yard and a meter are the same.... they aren't.

Humans are weird. We make irrational decisions and choices based on largely emotional reasoning. When it comes to sound... it can be a hard sale without playing on the emotions... For example... are you really going to tell someone that they are hearing it wrong? If you do, will they admit they could have been duped or defend that they experienced an improvement.

• Justifying an investment is one reason why something might sound different to one person than another...
• Some people are happier with specific tones of sound...
• Some people need specific input/output jacks...

I wasn't comparing the onboard audio from a motherboard made in 2001... It's not the budget board audio... I'm comparing the exact same headphone amplifier, similar caps, and as far as a digital processor is concerned if the chip can process the audio we are in business.


I can show the exact same part numbers on both and people still claim that one is better. How can you possibly do that?

Configure 3 systems side by side... one with the SupremeFX, one with the STx and one with the Phoebus. Throw it on a switch and don't look.


Use some good headphones, 300ohm or something that will pick up the issues.


There are benefits to sound cards.


Those benefits are not always going to be heard. Rarely will they ever be heard by an average gamer/computer user. Many of the people who care so much about this topic take insult to the thought that there may not be the dramatic difference that once was.


For someone watching movies, games, listening to MP3s, or anything like this... use a quality onboard solution. If your life revolves around FLAC files and perfection.... go external... Xonar Essence One.


I'm probably past the $0.02 and getting close to $1.00 on this topic... but it seems like breaking the sound card addiction is similar to breaking the PSU over-wattage advice some other people give.

Hello,

my name is Lazlo and I agree with this message. :handshake:

 

[SuB]

Hello,

my name is Lazlo and I agree with this message. :handshake:

We know, but that doesn't make any of you 100% correct.

I've said it in various threads, sound is a very personal thing. I've done blind tests and can tell the difference, I wouldn't get so i'rate about it otherwise.

 

[J0s3e]

+1 for quality headphones / speakers as the ultimate sound upgrade.
For a good headphones though, card with headphone amp is preferred.
And although the onboards are not a bad quality at all, they are still close to all other circuits on the mobo, I could hear artifacts while moving my mouse for example.
Conclusion? Cheap PCI or PCI-x card in one of bottom slots does the job as well as VERY EXPENSIVE one, given you set up everything properly of course.

 

[SuB]

Cheap PCI or PCI-x card in one of bottom slots does the job as well as VERY EXPENSIVE one, given you set up everything properly of course.

No, no it doesn't it really doesn't. If anything getting a cheap PCI / PCI-Ex will be worse than a good motherboard's onboard... If you're spending the money, you might as well get a decent one otherwise there isn't much point.