Woolwich murder, your opinion?

[SeekaX]

God is for people who are scared of the dark mate ... Thats the only thing we are gonna be seeing when we take our last breath ...

a few days ago i was at the funeral of my grandma and the priest said something that made me giggle, because it pretty much checkmates his own believes. "we are feared of what we can't explain"
it's pretty much the reason why religion exists, we are scared of what we don't understand, so we come up with a reason to not be scared anymore.

 

[FTLN]

a few days ago i was at the funeral of my grandma and the priest said something that made me giggle, because it pretty much checkmates his own believes. "we are feared of what we can't explain"
it's pretty much the reason why religion exists, we are scared of what we don't understand, so we come up with a reason to not be scared anymore.

I can understand that religion came about for this reason....

And yes death does scare me but I wouldn't want to live a life of unsubstantiated waffle because I'm scared ..

 

[SeekaX]

I can understand that religion came about for this reason....

And yes death does scare me but I wouldn't want to live a life of unsubstantiated waffle because I'm scared ..

i much rather participate in the pursuit of the real explanation than sticking to the easy one, religion is the answer for the simple minded.

 

[NickOmega]

I've been getting into this with so many people on Facebook etc it's unreal.
Islam may or may not be believed to be the religion of peace, but you only need to spend a while looking at translated quotes from the quran to see just why there are so many fundamentalists or people who believe that all muslims are terrorists/inherently evil.

It teaches that non-believers should be turned or killed:

"And fight them until there is no persecution and religion is wholly for Allah."

"Fight them, that Allah may punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you to victory over them, and relieve the minds of a people who believe."

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

That unbelievers are somehow inferior and are all destined for hell:

those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."

"Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."

That any muslim who renounces his faith should be killed:

"When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."

Even Islamic law supports this one.

Apostasy from Islam (Ridda) o8.0
whoever Voluntarily Leaves Islam Is Killed o8.1
Must first be asked to return to Islam o8.2
Only caliph may kill him o8.3
No indemnity or expiation for killing him o8.4

Under Sharia Law there is no punishment for killing someone who denounces their Islamic faith as long as the caliph (islamic ruler) does the deed.

That if they don't fight they will be punished and replaced:

"If you do not go forth to fight, He will punish you with a painful punishment, and will choose in your stead a people other than you, and you shall do Him no harm at all."

That they don't need to abide by the laws of non-muslims:

"So obey not the disbelievers and fight against them by means of it (the Qur’an) a great fight"

Promotes segregation:

"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is of them"

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"

Quite how they claim their religion is a peaceful one is beyond me :headscratch: but I digress.
Let's not forget that the killers were muslim converts, at least one of whom had previous connections to militant movements as well so seems to have a history of being easily led, whose first learnings were probably from the same English translations.

That's not to say that all muslims are the same, I know they're not, and different people will take different messages from the quran in it's entirety just like with any religion. It's the existing fundamentalists/extremists who are turning more and more weak-minded/vulnerable young people into potential killers andterrorists, essentially grooming the next generation.
It's a sad state of affairs when the country allows this sort of thing to happen from within.

Apologies for the long post and the many quotes. I know not all of them are going to be accurate being translated from arabic, but this is an example of the sort of thing that is available to the, non-arabic speaking, muslim converts in the UK.

 

[FTLN]

I've been getting into this with so many people on Facebook etc it's unreal.
Islam may or may not be believed to be the religion of peace, but you only need to spend a while looking at translated quotes from the quran to see just why there are so many fundamentalists or people who believe that all muslims are terrorists/inherently evil.

It teaches that non-believers should be turned or killed:


That unbelievers are somehow inferior and are all destined for hell:

That any muslim who renounces his faith should be killed:
Even Islamic law supports this one.
Under Sharia Law there is no punishment for killing someone who denounces their Islamic faith as long as the caliph (islamic ruler) does the deed.

That if they don't fight they will be punished and replaced:

That they don't need to abide by the laws of non-muslims:
Promotes segregation:
Quite how they claim their religion is a peaceful one is beyond me :headscratch: but I digress.
Let's not forget that the killers were muslim converts, at least one of whom had previous connections to militant movements as well so seems to have a history of being easily led, whose first learnings were probably from the same English translations.

That's not to say that all muslims are the same, I know they're not, and different people will take different messages from the quran in it's entirety just like with any religion. It's the existing fundamentalists/extremists who are turning more and more weak-minded/vulnerable young people into potential killers andterrorists, essentially grooming the next generation.
It's a sad state of affairs when the country allows this sort of thing to happen from within.

Apologies for the long post and the many quotes. I know not all of them are going to be accurate being translated from arabic, but this is an example of the sort of thing that is available to the, non-arabic speaking, muslim converts in the UK.

We must be carefull to not single out Islam, Christianity is probably even worse -

Quotes from the bible ..

Leviticus 20:9 / If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to
death.

Exodus 21:20-21 / If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

 

[NickOmega]

We must be carefull to not single out Islam, Christianity is probably even worse -

Quotes from the bible ..

Leviticus 20:9 / If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to
death.

Exodus 21:20-21 / If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

That's a fair enough point, though I'm sure you could have found more damning ones with some effort.

Such as:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)

The Leviticus one seems to be more a message of respect for the parents, albeit times have changed, and Exodus doesn't really apply since we don't have slaves. The quotes from the quran are all applied now. These are the messages the extremists are teaching. There was video footage of, I believe, Abu Hamza shouting this kind of thing on the streets in the UK. Christians aren't being told in sermon to kill any unruly child, or to take their rape victim as a wife if they wish, or to kill all non-christians.

I wasn't singling Islam out, I know all religion is flawed, but given the circumstances of the killing and the "interview" the one killer gave, surely the messages in the quran are what people should be looking at. This isn't someone who was raised a muslim, he voluntarily chose that religion for whatever reason.

He was clearly confused, he is heard clearly on the video saying about what people see "in our land" and then can be heard saying "bring our troops back", yet he's just killed a serviceman, wearing a Help for Heroes shirt, in cold blood in the street. He doesn't even know what land he belongs to.

 

[Vicey]

Thanks to the media this will only vindicate the murderers. They got what they wanted, fear, publicity, their message was shown verbatim on the news.

It will cause more attacks. Other nut jobs will see those videos and do the same thing to have their 15 minutes, already we had that grenade thrown in to a mosque as "retaliation" that would never have occurred had the press handled this properly.

 

[yassarikhan786]

What about all them other simple crazy bastards in Afghanistan, Iraq, Africa, India, Pakistan, Russia, America ?? There are a lot of these "simple crazy bastards" and they all have one thing in common - RELIGION

If we got rid of religion in this world we could then concentrate on the truly crazy people like pedophiles, murderers, criminals etc ...

I mean come on, christians are fighting for the right to teach kids in junior school that the earth is less than 10,000 years old ... Give me a break ..

God is for people who are scared of the dark mate ... Thats the only thing we are gonna be seeing when we take our last breath ...

I was just saying its not right to single out a whole religion based on the actions of a few. I respect everyone's beliefs and I will never persecute a group of people solely on what a few members of that said group do.

 

[FTLN]

I was just saying its not right to single out a whole religion based on the actions of a few. I respect everyone's beliefs and I will never persecute a group of people solely on what a few members of that said group do.

I agree with you there, but If people didnt have silly beleifs to start with then we wouldnt have to deal with this problem..

I live in france and last year we had some islam radicalist shoot 2 soldiers dead at a cashpoint outside there barracks , one other soldier was seriously injured. He then went to Toulouse and shot 3 children dead at a jewish school and then met up with a soldier of a local ad site and blasted him in the head too ...

Yesterday a soldier on patrol in Paris had his throat slashed by a man of african appearance...

What do these 3 events have in common ?
All men were shouting Allahu Akbar whilst committing these monstrosities
All (apart from the most recent, he hasn't been caught) had visited muslim countries before committing these crimes
All have had difficult or troubled upbringings and were vulnerable .....

 

[williamredpath]

Personally I don't like religeon in any form. I Think it's a crutch for the mentally weak, for those who think there going somewhere when they die. I don't think we should build mosques and churches. I think they should all be bulldozed down and those type of buildings should only be built when science has proven there to be any type of god. I think any form of religeon is for very gullable people who belive in something that simply doesn't exist. The 2 idiots that killed that poor guy should have the worst forms of torture inflicted on them and i think it should be made public as a stark reminder to all those other morons considering taking the roads those 2 chose. I think imigration should be made much much harder to the point where only people of any use to the UK are allowed on our shores. People like doctors and buisnessmen and professionals with no ties what so ever to extremism. As for any religeous people they should only be allowed to practice their faiths in their own homes instead of rubbing it in the faces of those who choose to be agnostic. Religeon and faith should be a personal thing and not a thing in the masses or groups. practicing any religeon in groups of any type apart from with people's own families in their homes should be made illegal.

 

[FTLN]

The 2 idiots that killed that poor guy should have the worst forms of torture inflicted on them and i think it should be made public as a stark reminder to all those other morons considering taking the roads those 2 chose.

No mate, I don't agree there..

 

[williamredpath]

Maybe it's because i'm in the Royal Marines and feel quite personal towards it, but never ther less i do feel religeon is a personal choice and any public practices of it should be outlawed

 

[NickOmega]

The 2 idiots that killed that poor guy should have the worst forms of torture inflicted on them and i think it should be made public as a stark reminder to all those other morons considering taking the roads those 2 chose

No mate, I don't agree there..

Personally I do agree on that. They made the point of saying "eye for an eye" on the video after killing an innocent, unarmed man. See if they still feel the same once vindication begins? After all, with "eye for an eye" it's only fair and just, is it not?
Why not use their punishment as a deterrent, yes it's extreme but so was their crime. If the UK wasn't such a soft touch on criminals it would be in a much better state right now.

 

[yassarikhan786]

Personally I do agree on that. They made the point of saying "eye for an eye" on the video after killing an innocent, unarmed man. See if they still feel the same once vindication begins? After all, with "eye for an eye" it's only fair and just, is it not?
Why not use their punishment as a deterrent, yes it's extreme but so was their crime. If the UK wasn't such a soft touch on criminals it would be in a much better state right now.

I personally believe the two guys should be killed in return. The UK is too soft in this regard.

 

[williamredpath]

Personally I do agree on that. They made the point of saying "eye for an eye" on the video after killing an innocent, unarmed man. See if they still feel the same once vindication begins? After all, with "eye for an eye" it's only fair and just, is it not?
Why not use their punishment as a deterrent, yes it's extreme but so was their crime. If the UK wasn't such a soft touch on criminals it would be in a much better state right now.

I'm glad you agree with me on that lol I wasn't sure if I went a bit too far for people's agreement but it's good to know i'm not the only one who's not afraid to speak out lol