We're out out - The Brexit Thread
- Thread starter tinytomlogan
- Start date
Greenback
Active member
I think you mean threshold
That's what I did put, you just edited it to make me look silly
Greenback
Active member
Curious to know what you think it was and if you think it's a reasonable reason
Tolemac
Active member
This may sound racist but it's not meant that way.
If the british people were thriving in industry and we were building the housing for everyone and I mean everyone "even the migrant quota" we would not be in this situation in the 1st place
Greenback
Active member
It's not only housing though, it's schools hospitals even your local GP. and the MP's say they bring money but when do you see a budget that say we are raising spending on hospitals or schools, it's always cuts our deficit is getting bigger. If you are going to argue that immigration brings in money and all people see is waiting times to see your doctor go up hospitals getting closed, school classes getting to a point the teachers struggle to help individual children who are already behind.
If jobs are hard to find that pay a wage you can live on and the governments calling you a scrounger, the cost of renting a house is going up as the availability goes down.
As someone in there said if you are going to have 400,000 coming in you need to put the services in to cover that
shambles1980
New member
Thats a big issue with what people see compared to how it works..
its true that migrants do make and boost the economy. but the goverment "and torys are terrible for it"
Like to push that money in other directions and basically work off the old fallacy of "trickle down economics"
They actually believe that if you help the rich get richer, then the lower downs will benefit..
they seem to think about it like, the rich people are sitting at a table eating, and then every one else is under that table. and if you give the rich people enough food, some of that food will fall down and the plebs "thats you and me" will get some of the spoils.
And the more you give the rich the more likely you are for the plebs to get more spoils.
Just never worked like that. and i dont really understand why they keep trying it when it always fails.
Any way i digress..
But it is this stupid Tory mentality that is causing disillusion.
they blame migrants for the nhs, when its really just that the torys are under-funding it woefully.
Plenty of migrants have arrived and work and pay their national insurance. So that should have boosted NHS funding.. Some how the torys have managed to cut the funding even with more N.I taxes being paid, and is in the process of systematically privatising sections of it.
People see this and think "must be migrants" But its not.
Also you cant really complain about having a long GP Que, because i am willing to bet a good % of GP's are actually EU migrants.
so you can say there is a large waiting time to see my gp because of migrants.
but at the same time you could say you would either not have a gp or have fewer gps in the area if it wasnt for migration, and so the wait would be even longer..
Any way yeah trickle down economics dont work, everything the goverment has privatized over the years has become extortionately expensive in comparison to prices when it was state run.
Allowing people to buy council houses seemed like a good idea but the councils failed to use the money to build more houses. because you know.. trickle down economics does not work.
But we cant blame migration for any of that really.
you have to blame tory policies dating back to thatcher for pretty much all of it. (cant actually think of a part of it that wasnt caused by tory policy to be fair)
having said all that labour are just stupid as well.
They dont care about where we may be getting the money from and so throw it around willynilly. Where torys are actually able to balance the books in general, but again they have this stupid idea that f they give all the money to the rich the poor will benifit from the crumbs that fall down.
its true that migrants do make and boost the economy. but the goverment "and torys are terrible for it"
Like to push that money in other directions and basically work off the old fallacy of "trickle down economics"
They actually believe that if you help the rich get richer, then the lower downs will benefit..
they seem to think about it like, the rich people are sitting at a table eating, and then every one else is under that table. and if you give the rich people enough food, some of that food will fall down and the plebs "thats you and me" will get some of the spoils.
And the more you give the rich the more likely you are for the plebs to get more spoils.
Just never worked like that. and i dont really understand why they keep trying it when it always fails.
Any way i digress..
But it is this stupid Tory mentality that is causing disillusion.
they blame migrants for the nhs, when its really just that the torys are under-funding it woefully.
Plenty of migrants have arrived and work and pay their national insurance. So that should have boosted NHS funding.. Some how the torys have managed to cut the funding even with more N.I taxes being paid, and is in the process of systematically privatising sections of it.
People see this and think "must be migrants" But its not.
Also you cant really complain about having a long GP Que, because i am willing to bet a good % of GP's are actually EU migrants.
so you can say there is a large waiting time to see my gp because of migrants.
but at the same time you could say you would either not have a gp or have fewer gps in the area if it wasnt for migration, and so the wait would be even longer..
Any way yeah trickle down economics dont work, everything the goverment has privatized over the years has become extortionately expensive in comparison to prices when it was state run.
Allowing people to buy council houses seemed like a good idea but the councils failed to use the money to build more houses. because you know.. trickle down economics does not work.
But we cant blame migration for any of that really.
you have to blame tory policies dating back to thatcher for pretty much all of it. (cant actually think of a part of it that wasnt caused by tory policy to be fair)
having said all that labour are just stupid as well.
They dont care about where we may be getting the money from and so throw it around willynilly. Where torys are actually able to balance the books in general, but again they have this stupid idea that f they give all the money to the rich the poor will benifit from the crumbs that fall down.
Greenback
Active member
The simplest way is if someone from the EU is working here how much do they earn and pay in taxes, and then how much do they get back, e.g working tax credits, child tax credits, rent top up, if a family then educating the children, and health care. If the money they pay in is less than the money they receive they are a drain on the system, And obviously is the job they are doing a job someone from inside the UK could do and now that person is out of work and a bigger drain on the system.
Also how many of the 300,000 they say came here last year are working and how many are claiming benefits?
Could the EU still have free movement and stop the economical migrants, yes by putting in terms of you need money to support yourself for a year or already have a job waiting that pays enough you would not need to claim any form of benefits.
I'd say that as GP's go a bigger % are from outside the EU if the GP's in my area are anything to go by, and if I go back to when I was but a child most of the GP's I saw were English and the waiting time was a couple of days. This doesn't take from the fact you have more people using the service now some of which are from the Eu and it puts a strain on that service.
This isn't the EU's fault, it would eventually happen even if you had no immigration as people live longer and have more children population grows and the cost of maintaining free health care goes up something has to give, my local hospital has had bad reports but when you look at it, it was build to treat x number of people and now treats twice as many with less money the maths doesn't work
Also how many of the 300,000 they say came here last year are working and how many are claiming benefits?
Could the EU still have free movement and stop the economical migrants, yes by putting in terms of you need money to support yourself for a year or already have a job waiting that pays enough you would not need to claim any form of benefits.
I'd say that as GP's go a bigger % are from outside the EU if the GP's in my area are anything to go by, and if I go back to when I was but a child most of the GP's I saw were English and the waiting time was a couple of days. This doesn't take from the fact you have more people using the service now some of which are from the Eu and it puts a strain on that service.
This isn't the EU's fault, it would eventually happen even if you had no immigration as people live longer and have more children population grows and the cost of maintaining free health care goes up something has to give, my local hospital has had bad reports but when you look at it, it was build to treat x number of people and now treats twice as many with less money the maths doesn't work
RobM
Active member
The reality is migrant and the economy is not what the politicians would have you believe yes some do contribute but many do not.
Migrants come to work in this country and are very happy to work for less as its still more than they would get back home by a long stretch. They also claim tax credits and child benefit even though their kids are back in their home country.
So not only is the migrant working for less money they are also taking money out by way of benefits and tax break.
With me so far?
So at this point we see that migrants are earning less and claiming from the state whilst not paying taxes because they are below the threshold for tax. Do they spend their hard earnt money on our economy? no they do not, they send the bulk of it back home to their family and spend the bare minimum in the uk to be able to survive.
I fail to see how this is good for the economy its actually bad for the economy.
Most eu migrants come here for a couple of years then go back thats a known fact, they will openly admit they come here to make good money and who can blame them? its only natural to seek better opportunity.
Thats free movement for you
Migrants come to work in this country and are very happy to work for less as its still more than they would get back home by a long stretch. They also claim tax credits and child benefit even though their kids are back in their home country.
So not only is the migrant working for less money they are also taking money out by way of benefits and tax break.
With me so far?
So at this point we see that migrants are earning less and claiming from the state whilst not paying taxes because they are below the threshold for tax. Do they spend their hard earnt money on our economy? no they do not, they send the bulk of it back home to their family and spend the bare minimum in the uk to be able to survive.
I fail to see how this is good for the economy its actually bad for the economy.
Most eu migrants come here for a couple of years then go back thats a known fact, they will openly admit they come here to make good money and who can blame them? its only natural to seek better opportunity.
Thats free movement for you
I'm curious where you got most of this, because I do not believe half of what you wrote. "many do not" contribute??? I'd like to see figures. Most of the reports and stats I have seen in the past few years show that the British claim far, far, FAR more benefits than migrants. And migrants claiming for their kids back home? before I left for Norway, people who claimed benefits for kids, had to literally present their kids to prove they were supporting them.
And what is wrong with sending money back home? I live and work in Norway but send money home. So what if we get higher salaries here. I will still support my brother and sister. The salary difference here to the Uk, is the same comparison as the salary difference of UK to Poland. Of course they will send money home. And if migrants are here working legally regardless of salary, are you saying they are not entitled to benefits? they are paying tax after all, even if it is less than others. It is all contribution
Yes there are some taking advantage but I do not believe for one second that "most" migrants do not contribute to the British economy as you claim.
RobM
Active member
I think you missunderstood me and I was not very clear.
I never said most migrants do not contribute, I said many do not, I also said I dont blame them for sending money back home, nothing wrong with that its how the rules work (part of the problem).
I am referring to the large amount that arrive and intend to stay for only a year or so (to make the money they need). They do not pay any tax because they do not earn enough therfore they do not contribute to the pool they then take from by way of benefits, and why should they then go on to claim child benefit for children that dont even live here?
I am well aware there is a large number of migrants that do contribute.
I am refering to the unskilled low skilled influx that does nothing to the economy other than to drive down wages (we have plenty of this group already).
Immigration is good by and large, but it needs to be controlled in such a manner that the receiving nation benefits and has control over it.
Its the rules around it all that is the problem, its not a level playing field and to be fair it should be, Every country should be taxing and paying benefits at the same rate, then there is no need to
Take a look at somewhere like Romania, they get way more in benefit here then back home.
Migration whould be only allowed were the applicant Has a job and or can support themselves
Ok thats fair then. The way your post was construed, I had taken quite a lot of offence by it. Since I may have lived in the Wales most of my life but I am still a migrant at the end of the day being French born
The biggest problem I see, which is the same everywhere except maybe Switzerland and Norway is there are far too many tax breaks for the rich. I think in these two countries the more you earn, the higher up the tax table you go and the more you get hit by it. So the rich contribute quite a fair share here and MPs and poltical personnel are not exempt.
Tolemac
Active member
Is it that's funny the police are next door again after the Albanian for drugs I really rest my case for wanting to be out.
Greenback
Active member
think America has gone a little to far on the anti-racist theme
not all get cup cakes
not all get cup cakes
While i think the whole privilege thing is utter garbage and basically just turns victimhood into leverage, it's a Daily Mail article, so i have no doubt that the article is a quite a bit exaggerated.
Greenback
Active member
What's your logic there, no immigrants no more drugs?
Dicehunter
Resident Newb
Where I come from in Germany there are quite large gangs of Albanians, One of the more despicable things they would do is break children's limbs and set them incorrectly, Send them out begging with the handler being close by and keeping a watch on the siltation.
Even last year when I was in Berlin a kid approached me by the train station with a note in 3 different languages, German, English and French, Asking for €5 and I knew exactly what was happening.
I gave the kid €5 and pulled him aside and bought him some food and stayed there while he ate it as he looked badly malnourished, Yet the police tend to look the other way as they don't want to offend their culture.
There is a lot of really horrible crap that goes on in Europe that many people have no idea about.
Romanians are also a big problem in Berlin, Although they tend to beg without child abuse and do a lot of pick pocketing.
Those 2 peoples alone are responsible for a lot of crap happening in Europe and Albanians in London currently run huge prostitution and drug rings.
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