Unfinished cascade?

bazx

New member
I have bought an unfinished project from a guy in the US

It is suppose to be a sli + CPU cascade

Now I have no idea if it is or not but it does have 3x blocks/heads

And did have 3 rotary compressors but one has been removed as it weighed to much to ship

It would have been on the right near the coils

The two remaining comps are 110v and I guess the fan is too

Any input as to the design would be helpful as I don’t have a clue what is going on with that

I thought I would get it going and if it works remake it

The guy who made it seemed to no allot about this sort of thing but lacks the

Hand skills needed to carry it off here are some pics

007.jpg
 
Having no experience in this area whatsoever all I can say is I can see cap tubes and 3x cooling heads (one damaged?) and a big rad/fan.

I will make this comment - the flexihose weakest point is normally the base connection - applying a bit of engineering to this why not solder a sleeve over this point so that the stress point is moved away from the the actual joints.

Great project to take on, keep us updated - you dont live that far away from fatty to get is all gassed up, maybe team up for the job at hand? - I guess you need some sort of transformer to get you from uk 240v to us 110v.

Okay I see two tubes going to the head - is one a gas feed and the other a return line? If so which is which?

Also - putting more insulation around the tube (than is normally supplied with a mach) and knowing that case temps are normally 30degrees or higher - how much better is this for your temps?
 
I believe the large line is the Suction line and the little one is the cap tube mav. Gas returns is the suction i THINK, tbh I have no idea but I'm sure fatty or Gray will correct me, I'm just trying to learn myself.

I'm looking into building my own unit at some point so am going to be watching this very closely. You need to talk to Gray about this one Baz, he'll be able to tell you what's going on with it.

The suction line (?) looks quite long on the CPU going to the left, has it ever been tuned or tested?
 
the guy said he had the 1st stage gased and working

i will most likely put in the missing compr and try and fire it up to see what happens

shame fattys working he would have attended wed
 
Slight problem, and some info so far that I can see...

Yes it would have been dual evap for the GPU's and single for the cpu, each with it's own low stage compressor. You'll need another. You can use the 110v compressors and fan with a transformer, and for cheapish you can get another 1/2HP compressor from RUNMC's shop online in 110v if you wanted to do that.

The suction line heat exchangers are great, but as real heat exchangers aren't so great. Personally I'd recommend making a pair of Proper heat exchanger 1/2" over 1/4" about 10-12' long and coiling them, then run it as dual evap from the High stage, and put those other heat exchangers on the suction circuit to precool the Low stage discharge after the desuperheater, which you can likely use a coil for. If those are proper slhx's you might get away with them, but they're never gonna do as good a job as a coaxial one.

The evaps are a question mark, but if they're just hollow pots, or basic cap in cap, you may want to consider a purchase from Kayl or Chilly on new evaps.

YOu'll obviously need some Low gas, and CO2 is a good starter, but R23 is a decent gas to work with. I wouldn't recommend Ethylene until you've got some practice in. It's dangerous.

To be honest, it's mostly a do-over, as the brazing looks a bit dodgy in spots, and the suction lines are completely unsuitable for longer use being unbraided, but with a little love it's got most of what you need.

Would be good to see if he made those oil sep's with copper wool inside, if he did, they'll work fine, just need blowing out on occasion when running.

Will have to have a chat with you on MSN sometime, but personally I'd recommend chopping out and sealing up the gpu portion, and just putting together a cpu only cascade for now, as dual evap and dual low stages is fairly advanced and for a first project a nice cpu cascade is perfect.

Cheers, that's a nice little Xmas project :D

Gray
 
Was I right about the order of things? Just to satisty myself that I am learning something from our chats Gray lol.
 
Thanks for the replies guys

Gray so this is a recognized cascade design

I will get a 3rd compressor for it but will get a 240v one as I will change the lot

When I remake it

At this stage I am only looking at this as a way of learning about cascade

And now have most of the tools required

Would more pick’s help

here is a pm from the maker

First stage

8600BTU rotary cap-tube is approximatly 95" of .031" cap-tube

Second stages are 5200BTU rotary's using 120" of .031" cap-tube.

I'm using custom oil seps like what pc ice uses.

After running the system for 4 hours, or when shutting down open the hand-valves for approximatly 3-4 seconds to allow the oil to go back to the compressor from the oil seperator.
 
Well you're right Boardy, you're starting to pick these things up :D

The size of those compressors is quite good, and for the cost of Rotaries in the UK it would be nice to use them, as that's the biggest expense really.

For the heat exchangers, if they are real ones, ie if they're manufactured ones with what looks like corrugated pipe inside, then they'll do the job ok, but are normally about 1/2ton max. Not bad, but I've always found that they're better for precooling. They do get used though. If you find that they don't do a great job then you can just make your own heat exchangers with pipe in pipe coiled, and use those on the suction return and run the Low stage's gas through it from just after the desuperheater, and just befroe the heat exchangers. It gave me about 10c colder under load when I used a slhx, and that ain't bad.

The captube length looks decent, though about 5-6' is what I set up my cascade with on the base stage with .031". Some have had success with longer, but if you need 2 stages run off that thing, more capacity is good. Even if it means that the temps on the base aren't as good.

If you don't want to have to worry about what oils are being used, a little 290/propane in the stages will ensure good oil carrying.

The oil seps will be fine if they're copper wool filled, but if not some can slip through.

If you did use the compressors, expect a little loss with the frequency being lower here compared with the US, but about 3/4HP and about 1/3 to 3/8HP on the smaller one would be about what you'd expect, which is great.

Really other than making sure that all of his brazing will hold pressure, and finding out whether the evaps are decent, the only really bad thing is the suction lines. Those flexi's are normally only rated to 150psi or so max. Static pressure at room temp on the Low stage gasses can beup to 200psi. That means that they could leak, or even burst, when the thing is charged up and that's not good. So I strongly recommend getting braided suction flexi's.

Anyways, if you just vacuum the High stage, and check that it holds, then pressure test and it holds that, then you can just charge it up, and see if that works at least. Just make sure your low stages are sealed up and in vac or with some nitrogen in there so that when the Low stage pipework is really cold you don't draw moisture in you'll see how it goes, and it'll give you a little experience on the base, and how to get it to hold. After that, see if you can get the Low stage that's complete tested and charged, even if it's just with 290 or your 402a, and load that too, then you can see how the base stage handles the load, and charge it so it will.

Your biggest challenge is the High stage. Getting it to hold that load, and then reworking the charge to handle both loads. If you tend to get floodback when the Low stage is only running on circuit(ie when cpu but not gpu evaps) then you may want to either add a larger suction accumulator or change the captube for TEV so that you don't get liquid floodback, but still have enough capacity to run the stages under load.

lol I could type all day on this, but really, just treat it as one stage at a time, start by making sure the High stage will work, then the cpu low stage, and tune the high to just that low, then add in the gpu low stage, and get the high to support that next, then you're only working on one at a time, and you'll pick up most of what you need to know as you go.

Just don't jump into a heavy gas like ethylene, or any of the flammable low gasses right away til you're sure you've got it sussed, as I've seen others do that and it scares me as 1150, 170 are both highly flammable and risky to start with. 508b is very good, but highly expensive. I don't know if BOC has R23 or not, but it's a good cheap starter if they do. Otherwise, CO2 is dead cheap and will give you some good experience and it won't kill you if you have issues and end up with a bit of wasted gas.

Cheers

Gray
 
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