The Winchester low-temp bug

[K404]

Sorry if this doesnt quite fit in here, but I`m putting together a TEC cooling system and i`ve got an S939 3200+. Assuming its got the low-temp bug, what exactly happens if the temperature goes too low? Does the chip not work? (not permanently not-working, just under those conditions.) Was thinkin that (AMD) users of phase-change are prob among the best to answer this

Thanks,

Kenny

 

[HARRY]

ull be fine matey 1stly it would have to be a damm big pelt powered by a generater and cooled by a water chiller to get to the temps your talkin about lol and secondly i only think it happens on msi mobo`s could just be nf3 though

 

[K404]

lol.. If its NF3 then i`m still in trouble. I heard the temp bug "kicked-in" from just below zero. Which is about as good as I`d expect from a TEC. The price I thought I`d have to pay took another jump last night, so am beginning to think its not worth it, for the extra gain over water. Phase-change woould be better value for money...

 

[fatty]

You are right phase is better than water and some winnie's do work subzero but very few I had my 3500 newcastle at 2860 all day long at 3gig it was flakey

 

[maverik-sg1]

For 24/7 operation there are only 3 types of cooling I would choose personally:

Air

Water

Phase

TEC is a great method of cooling but reliability of the TEC used and the extra power consumed using the extra PSU brings the cost much closer to phase change cooling (2nd hand Mach2 or vapochill can be picked up for between £300 and £400).

Phase change runs in a similar way to those of a domestic fridge principal of operation - I don't know about you, but my fridge is almost a family heirloom it's been that reliable.

If a TEC fails and you are not around to see it, the component failure is just around the corner (usually VGA or CPU).

Not that I am against TEC, for benching it's a great tool (toying with the idea of TEC cooling my 6800GT's for that little extra boost) it's just not on my list for 24/7 cooling.

But if you are a gamer who needs that boost whilst fragging away and knowing your PC will never be left unattended while in use then it's something that coyuld be used.

More mainstream water specialist offer TEC alternatives - DD have had it for a while, Innovatek and Swiftek have stepped into the arena now, Thermaltaqke failed miserably with their first attempt. Maybe the reliabilty has improved and now is the time to get sub zero with TEC - I'll let others decide on that one.......... for now

 

[K404]

Well, I`ve gone and bought me a Vapochill. It hasnt sunk in yet.

I`m bothered about this low-temp bug tho. What is it? What part of the hardware creates it?

More importantly... what can I expect to happen if my system "has" it?

Thanks,

Kenny

 

[Master_G]

Cold bug is A64 90nm chips not working properly below a certain temp (which seems to vary between San Diego/Venice and Winchester)

The CPU causes it, i think it's the memory controller, though i may be wrong. What you can expect varies from chip to chip. Some work fine using the latest BIOS with the motherboard, others go funny once they get into windows, some cant even boot at the temp which the vapochill tries to boot at (-30 for a LS)

Basically if you get it, apart from trying a different bios you cannot fix it.

The best way to avoid it is to avoid winchester cores, newcastles dont have the bug at all, and venice and san diegos seem (still not many around to be 100% sure) seem to have it at around -90C and so will not be a problem even in a vapochill)

Hope this helps.

G

 

[K404]

Thanks

Have tried a few places over the web, and no-one can totally agree on when it`ll occur and with what hardware

No doubt I`ll find out if my proc has it soon enough

Kenny

 

[Master_G]

Well that is basically because no one is 100% sure what causes it.

Some chips have it, some dont, some can be cured with a new BIOS, some cant, some have it at -5C, some have it at -45C.

It's a bit of a lottery really, so good luck, i hope all goes well and you get lucky with your chip!

G

 

[Gray Mole]

Better late than never

The 'cold bug' most commonly happens with winchester cpu's on msi nf3 motherboards and is commonly at -20 boot.

It CAN be varying, but those are the common, and other cold related faults are much more rare.

The later bios's for the Neo2 have more often than not cured it, and if you have a 12v vapo, you shouldn't hvae a problem, because the ACTUAL temp on the cpu will usually be higher, but you can also set to boot to -15 or so, and should avoid any issues entirely.

Hope that reassures a little, but until you get it going, you can't know for sure...

There's a very good chance that even if you have the 'cold bug' a little tweaking will make it into a 'non-issue'

Gray

 

[K404]

If I boot at -15, will the temp not continue to drop until it gets to a temp where it could become an issue? What about booting at zero? That would give it longer before it hits -20-ish so I would have a better chance of seeing whats happening and if the comp shuts off after a minute or two I could assume cold-bug (either that or I didnt insulate properly and...i`ve killed my system)

Thanks for the help Gray

Should be getting delivered today or tomorrow.... If I didnt have exams to study for/ panic about i`d be pretty excited!

Kenny

 

[Gray Mole]

Something to keep in mind, is that it's only at boot that you'll usually have any issues...

When you boot at -10 to -15 your cpu temp is at that temp when it boots, but within the first second the temp rises dramatically whatever the temp reading of the cooler is...

Your cpu temp will be anywhere from 15-25 degrees higher than the display shows, depending on what tim you use, the integrated heatspreader, high/low load, etc, so it's usually only at boot you have issues, unless you're using a really powerful cooler...and even then, you can up the vcore to bring the low load operating temp of the cpu up to prevent any cold bug issues, as well as turning off 'cpu disconnect' to keep that little bit of load on the cpu...

you'll know pretty soon where you stand, but keeping that in mind, you should be fine...

there's a load chart on asetek's site that's really handy for both Mach's and Vapo's so you can extrapolate the cpu temp from the cooling system's control unit temp reading...

It's likely not 100% perfect, but a good guide to where you stand...

Gray

 

[Shadow of chaos]

Buy a 3500+ Clawhammer, sell your winchester..

The clawhammers have no problems subzero temp, if you use the cooler on the winnie your pc will just lock up constantly anywhere, even in the bios.. thats what happend to me

 

[K404]

Err....I`m not goin backwards to a Claw... I if get the cold-boot bug, I`ll either go to Venice, or wait for X2.