Steam due in court over used game sales!

[JR23]

I don't really care what happens to steam, but seeing as PC games are so cheap compared with the hardware I don't think its beyond anyone to pay full price for them. I've never bought used games apart from the weird hard to find ones for my PS2. Digital content will always have its inherent problems that is until robots are subcontracted to implement its security beyond human intelligence

 

[Damien c]

I hope this group wins in court to be honest.

I have gone through the thread and I can see peoples points around the fact of being able to buy cheap and sell at a profit, but it's quite easy to stop that happening.

The easiest way to do this is similar to this.

User buys game and plays it, decides they don't want to play it anymore so they want rid.

They right click on the game and it has a sell game option, this then when clicked gives you a specific amount of money in your Steam wallet.

The value is set out at say 25% - 50% of what you paid for it, to stop those who buy games in a sale trying to sell them back for a profit, and also dependent on the age of the game.

The only way to sell a game is back to Valve and not to another user as to avoid any issues.

Only games bought through Steam should be eligible to be sold back, not games bought from cd key sites or as a retail copy and activated on Steam.

If you have been banned by VAC though on the game then you can't sell it.

Once a game has been sold back it is removed from your account.


It would be easy for Valve to introduce this system really, with the amount of people they have that should have the knowledge of how to implement it, and it would mean they make money since those keys that are sold back can be activated on another users account, for the same price as a new game.

 

[Greenback]

I hope this group wins in court to be honest.

I have gone through the thread and I can see peoples points around the fact of being able to buy cheap and sell at a profit, but it's quite easy to stop that happening.

The easiest way to do this is similar to this.

User buys game and plays it, decides they don't want to play it anymore so they want rid.

They right click on the game and it has a sell game option, this then when clicked gives you a specific amount of money in your Steam wallet.

The value is set out at say 25% - 50% of what you paid for it, to stop those who buy games in a sale trying to sell them back for a profit, and also dependent on the age of the game.

The only way to sell a game is back to Valve and not to another user as to avoid any issues.

Only games bought through Steam should be eligible to be sold back, not games bought from cd key sites or as a retail copy and activated on Steam.

If you have been banned by VAC though on the game then you can't sell it.

Once a game has been sold back it is removed from your account.


It would be easy for Valve to introduce this system really, with the amount of people they have that should have the knowledge of how to implement it, and it would mean they make money since those keys that are sold back can be activated on another users account, for the same price as a new game.

The problem with this is if say I buy a game like sims 3 on steam they use a key issued from EA, so steam would have to go to EA get that key unregistered so they could resale the game.
So in reality this court case would have to take all game publishers to court to allow Steam to be able to reissue used cd-keys.
The other option would be steam says you have to contact for instance EA to get the game cancelled

 

[d3rrial]

[...]

And why would they do that? It's not like the next buyer couldn't sell his copy. In effect if every game could be sold back to Valve for half the price it was bought for, for them to resell, they would only make half the profit, because its is to be expected that everyone would sell their games. That would probably lead to a doubling of the price and no gain for consumers.

 

[Damien c]

And why would they do that? It's not like the next buyer couldn't sell his copy. In effect if every game could be sold back to Valve for half the price it was bought for, for them to resell, they would only make half the profit, because its is to be expected that everyone would sell their games. That would probably lead to a doubling of the price and no gain for consumers.

Yes but if they did that, then more people would actually buy the game through Steam instead of through CD Key sites and retail copies, since they know that when they want to they can sell the game.

Valve won't get any of the money from retail sales or CD Key sites, unless it's a Valve produced game so the more people buying through Steam instead means more profit for them in the long run.

Not to mention that if the money is provided as money in the Steam Wallet then, that money has to be spent on Steam which means they are basically going to provide you with a new game, every time you sell 2 or more games back to them, it's win win for both parties.

Unless of course I am missing something here, in that offering a service that would attract customers is a bad thing.

 

[NeverBackDown]

There is no perfect way... It's kind of pointless to set laws on it.. Why not just get all the major devs and publishers together and have them set rules and policies and let them decide what's best for everyone and then have consumers see if they like it(literally almost impossible but nothings perfect) and then make those a standard for the digital entertainment industry..

 

[WYP]

There is no perfect way... It's kind of pointless to set laws on it.. Why not just get all the major devs and publishers together and have them set rules and policies and let them decide what's best for everyone and then have consumers see if they like it(literally almost impossible but nothings perfect) and then make those a standard for the digital entertainment industry..

the law itself is stupid, the fact of the matter is that the current system is not broken so it doesn't need fixed.

the law that has steam in this situation applies to all systems, origin, PSN, XBL... the list goes on. a radical change would need to be applied to the whole gaming sector in Europe!

 

[grassman]

The law is dumb the idea is great.

 

[Greenback]

If you take the current 2nd hand game market as an example, it could work in steam's favour e.g.

original game £29.99
steam gets 30% £9
when you sale it back you get 25% £7.50 (depending on age of game)
Steam sales it on £20 (depending how new)

At the moment no money from 2nd hand games goes to the developer/publisher, so instead of making £9 from a £29.99 game they could in theory make £21.50, and if they allowed the person to sale the 2nd hand game again giving them £5 they could still sale it on at £20 giving them £36.50 profit.

They could also take the price they pay as 25% of the current price to stop people selling a £29.99 game for £7.50 while it's in a steam sale for £3.00

Of course there are ways they could agree to this on paper but make it not worth the hassle to actually sale your game:

1: you have to contact the publisher to cancel the key, then wait for the publisher to contact steam. (don't hold your breath)
2: Out of your £7.50 they take an admin fee to contact the publisher to cancel the key.

And the big hurdle of this is that the PUBLISHERS have to agree to steam being able to re-use the keys.
Thus opening the doors to 2nd hand hard copies of PC games what's good for the goose is good for the gander

 

[Carbon20]

"The only way to sell a game is back to Valve and not to another user as to avoid any issues"

Why would valve want to buy back a digital copy of a game they just sold you. Digital copies can be copied an infinite amount of times for no cost. There would be no reason for them to buy it back... let alone resell a still brand new copy of a game for a reduced price.

I think some people don't understand that a digital copy of anything is always new. Their resale value is always going to be 100% of the original price.

I for one wish I could be there when steam's lawyers make a complete joke of the people challenging them

What these guys are essentially asking for is the option for everyone to be entitled to a full refund of their money, whenever they want, of a perfectly working game, when they get bored of it.

 

[Greenback]

As some have pointed out on other forums, 2 pc's and offline mode and you could sale all your non-multiplayer games and still play them on the other pc in offline mode.
I read the people taking steam to court now have tried to get the sale of steam accounts allowed and lost.

 

[loglog]

"The only way to sell a game is back to Valve and not to another user as to avoid any issues"

Why would valve want to buy back a digital copy of a game they just sold you. Digital copies can be copied an infinite amount of times for no cost. There would be no reason for them to buy it back... let alone resell a still brand new copy of a game for a reduced price.

I think some people don't understand that a digital copy of anything is always new. Their resale value is always going to be 100% of the original price.

I for one wish I could be there when steam's lawyers make a complete joke of the people challenging them

What these guys are essentially asking for is the option for everyone to be entitled to a full refund of their money, whenever they want, of a perfectly working game, when they get bored of it.

lmao, i wish i could be there too!

 

[WYP]

"The only way to sell a game is back to Valve and not to another user as to avoid any issues"

Why would valve want to buy back a digital copy of a game they just sold you. Digital copies can be copied an infinite amount of times for no cost. There would be no reason for them to buy it back... let alone resell a still brand new copy of a game for a reduced price.

I think some people don't understand that a digital copy of anything is always new. Their resale value is always going to be 100% of the original price.

I for one wish I could be there when steam's lawyers make a complete joke of the people challenging them

What these guys are essentially asking for is the option for everyone to be entitled to a full refund of their money, whenever they want, of a perfectly working game, when they get bored of it.

exactly, this guy gets how monumentally stupid this court case is.
it should and likely will get thrown out of court.
as i have said before if resale of digital content is forced it would monumentally change not just steam but all other platforms which operate in the EU, a stupid proposition.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Can't please everyone.

 

[Carbon20]

This law if passed, will be digging a massive grave for the gaming industry.

 

[krilliz]

It would be nice if it was possible for Valve to set up some kind of trading system so you could trade games between users or that you could do something with the games you no longer want and get "steam points" which gives you a discount on games.

However, I am a strong proponent for a full refund if the game you bought is unplayable like Diablo 3 was and Sim City 5. In such cases I think it would be resonable to get a refund.

 

[Greenback]

However, I am a strong proponent for a full refund if the game you bought is unplayable like Diablo 3 was and Sim City 5. In such cases I think it would be resonable to get a refund.

That would be down to Blizzard or EA not Steam, if they don't want to give refunds there is nothing Steam can do about it.

Even if Valve lose chances are they could only do it with Valve games until this lot take all the other publishes to court, Because Valve are not going to give money or keys out if they are not getting something for it.

I'm also doubtful that it would apply to any current games we have in our libraries unless Valve have records of how much we individually paid for them considering some would have paid full price others buy during sales

 

[krilliz]

That would be down to Blizzard or EA not Steam, if they don't want to give refunds there is nothing Steam can do about it.

Ofc, I just used those 2 games as an example. My point is that if you buy any software/game and it doesn't work as promised you should be able to get a refund from the place you bought it, just as it is with hardware and other products today.

Sorry if I went off topic I just wanted to clarify my point

 

[samwisekoi]

It's the law, mate

OP said the law has already been passed and Steam is non-compliant. So the case won't be thrown out because the solution is hard to work out -- EU users are allowed by law to resell digital content, and Steam won't let them. Thus the suit.

The rub might be that Steam may not actually be 'selling' the digital content. We buy a key from someone that enables us to download a copy from Steam. In fact, I don't think I have ever bought a game key from Steam itself. So when I am tired of Bioshock Infinite -- that I bought a key to on Amazon -- I could certainly burn a DVD of the game and sell it on e-Bay. But is the DRM key that won't work again actually 'digital content' as defined by the EU law?

Time to read the EULA on Steam. What are we buying and from whom?

Next up -- iTunes music with DRM.

Too bad I am not in the EU...

- Samwisekoi

 

[Remmy]

OP said the law has already been passed and Steam is non-compliant. So the case won't be thrown out because the solution is hard to work out -- EU users are allowed by law to resell digital content, and Steam won't let them. Thus the suit.

The rub might be that Steam may not actually be 'selling' the digital content. We buy a key from someone that enables us to download a copy from Steam. In fact, I don't think I have ever bought a game key from Steam itself. So when I am tired of Bioshock Infinite -- that I bought a key to on Amazon -- I could certainly burn a DVD of the game and sell it on e-Bay. But is the DRM key that won't work again actually 'digital content' as defined by the EU law?

Time to read the EULA on Steam. What are we buying and from whom?

Next up -- iTunes music with DRM.

Too bad I am not in the EU...

- Samwisekoi

Have you seen the episode of South Park 'HumancentiPad'?

People sign up to iTunes without reading the T&Cs and it turns out they've signed up to be part of a Human-centipede lol

I don't know anyone who's ever read an EULA or T&C lol, I'm far too lazy myself