Small talk & Chit chat

Dicehunter said:
I bet in RTX enabled titles the shadows and reflections which would have been good without RTX i.e real time reflections, PCSS, HBAO+ etc... which are all available right now, Will be dulled down so when RTX is enabled people will say "WOW" even though it really won't be a night and day difference.
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I don't think most devs will do that to be honest. It's more like it's that much better it makes the old way look worse than it is. However if the previous title was indeed actually better when comparing Rasterization vs Rasterization methods then I would agree.
 
Lol, it's well known amongst graphics devs that gamers don't know what accurate lighting or reflections should look like and will often think it's a bug. It even happens with game artists tbh.

I don't know how people can say it looks worse.. it's literally the previous BF game with accurate reflections.

Watch the DF video below for some good explanations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kQ3l6wN6ns
 
I mean it's obviously better but if it has a hefty price premium along and only runs at 1080p60 it just isn't ready for prime time yet (IMO). If it for example ran solely on the tensor cores without causing an FPS drop, sure, no problem. You get early adopter tech, where tradeoff is money for nicer effects. But now you end up having to compromise.
 
Rumours of the current limitations seem to be 1080 and ~60fps. And I haven't seen 4k ray traced footage. Nvidia hasn't explained the performance impact either.

And even if 1080p60 is the limiting factor for RTX, I wonder if it's possible to run the game at 2160p or 1440p and have RTX effects render at a lower resolution. Probably not though, seeing as it isn't post processing.

I want to be proven wrong. I was really impressed by their RTX dev blog. Then again I'm just a spectator in this since I can't realistically afford a 20-series GPU nor can I run Dx12 since I fully switched to Linux recently. :P

Edit: Oh, the video you linked literally includes considerations of scaling RTX effects. IMO in the heat of action, even 720p ray tracing would look great.
 
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SPS said:
I don't know how people can say it looks worse.. it's literally the previous BF game with accurate reflections.
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It's really very easy to say it looks worse when you have been playing at 4k for many years, 1.5 of those at max settings on what we already have and then *poof* you drop the res to 1080.

It looks like erse, reflections or not.

And the funny part is that all of these tiny little reflections and anal things they are doing won't even be noticeable when you are playing the game unless you go "Oh hang on, let me just stop here whilst being shot at, stop paying attention and focus in on that tiny little reflection of light in that puddle and see what's in it".

This is why until we can RT teh everythings at high resolution it's not worth bothering with incremental visual upgrades. Better to wait for monumental.
 
AlienALX said:
It's really very easy to say it looks worse when you have been playing at 4k for many years, 1.5 of those at max settings on what we already have and then *poof* you drop the res to 1080.

It looks like erse, reflections or not.

And the funny part is that all of these tiny little reflections and anal things they are doing won't even be noticeable when you are playing the game unless you go "Oh hang on, let me just stop here whilst being shot at, stop paying attention and focus in on that tiny little reflection of light in that puddle and see what's in it".

This is why until we can RT teh everythings at high resolution it's not worth bothering with incremental visual upgrades. Better to wait for monumental.
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Opinions differ from person to person. I'm the sort who would enjoy those subtle changes and discreet visual improvements. I would still say 1080p/1440p is the ideal market to target right now.

4k with RT? good luck waiting for that to come with 60+ fps on full settings. I would probably prefer 1080p on max with RT than 4k on medium settings.
 
Warchild said:
Opinions differ from person to person. I'm the sort who would enjoy those subtle changes and discreet visual improvements. I would still say 1080p/1440p is the ideal market to target right now.
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If you have time to notice them whilst driving at 200mph or being shot at then all power to you. Most of the population wouldn't notice.

Warchild said:
4k with RT? good luck waiting for that to come with 60+ fps on full settings. I would probably prefer 1080p on max with RT than 4k on medium settings.
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Yup it's at least three more gens away. I don't want to massively downgrade what I have already thanks, so I will wait until it can be done properly. Nvidia spent years convincing me how I needed 4k and it was the next best thing and eventually it was, so now they can do a U turn as far as I care I will just wait until 4k with RT is a thing and can be done properly.

The last time I remember chasing 1080p was about nine years ago, so yes it's all too much of a step backward for me.
 
AlienALX said:
If you have time to notice them whilst driving at 200mph or being shot at then all power to you. Most of the population wouldn't notice.



Yup it's at least three more gens away. I don't want to massively downgrade what I have already thanks, so I will wait until it can be done properly. Nvidia spent years convincing me how I needed 4k and it was the next best thing and eventually it was, so now they can do a U turn as far as I care I will just wait until 4k with RT is a thing and can be done properly.

The last time I remember chasing 1080p was about nine years ago, so yes it's all too much of a step backward for me.
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I think I am quite happy sitting at 3440p at the moment. I don't need more. However I would like to change the Swift IPS screen which has become a disappointment.

100fps is still not enough for me and when you need to OC the screen to get that.. bleh. Personally had I not bought a second 1080ti, I may have been swayed by RTX cards in a few months when the stronger versions come. I would be a little loony to go for it right now though.

God rays, RT in realtime, high textures. These would make any Myst/Riven games look downright realistic. I'd happily go back to that genre.
 
It's important to recognise what's important to you in gaming. I'm more or less the polar opposite, I value responsiveness over everything else in most games I play. I sold my 4k60 monitor since I never used it after buying a 1080p144 one. But I do find the upgrade from 1080p to 1440p a significant one and the sweet spot at 27".

I don't mind playing CS:GO at 1024x768 resolution stretched if it is more responsive than native. Generally I get annoyed when games drop below 100fps, and I do tone down most settings (though I like to have textures at max and decent ambient occlusion) in order to reach that. Most games I run at fairly basic details at native 1440p, and the current combination of 8700k/970 works fairly well for that. I've found that after 100fps it's more often a CPU limitation than a GPU one.

The idea of dropping down to 60fps territory for nice reflections is absurd to me. But I can't wait until we have cards which can achieve that, or software which can run independent resolutions for RTX and rest of the game.
 
Warchild said:
I think I am quite happy sitting at 3440p at the moment. I don't need more. However I would like to change the Swift IPS screen which has become a disappointment.

100fps is still not enough for me and when you need to OC the screen to get that.. bleh. Personally had I not bought a second 1080ti, I may have been swayed by RTX cards in a few months when the stronger versions come. I would be a little loony to go for it right now though.

God rays, RT in realtime, high textures. These would make any Myst/Riven games look downright realistic. I'd happily go back to that genre.
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It's just such a massive downgrade. They literally want me to step right back, then start the chase again. Too old, too tired, too broke. It will be thousands of pounds chasing this dragon and I have better things to do with my time and my cash. I really just cba.

As for SLi? this is the first gen in a long time I have been on a single card and DAYUM DAYUM DAYUM it's been bloody awesome.

Again I just don't want to step back into a quagmire.

I do agree that certain games where you spend time exploring etc it would look amazing. Just not on Battlefield nor racing games. It would suit Fallout, but tbh? with all of the Gamesdon'twork features on that actually looks nice.

At 4k.

I'm sitting this one out. Am excited, but not until it can better what I have, not feel like such an enormous downgrade (which on the next two gens it will be).
 
You can run it at 4K, the video I linked talks about how it ran well at 4K on early drivers with no code optimisation. Also with denoising/machine learning you can run the reflections at lower res and upsample.

Most games right now will be picky with placing reflectors (especially large planar surfaces) because cubemaps and SSR are so buggy, artists often rough up surfaces more than they should to avoid artefacting. With ray traced reflections they won't have to do that anymore so it will be great to see scenes that are not full of rusty and scuffed metal all the time.

Funny thing is, with ray traced reflections you may think there's not much difference because it's the expected result, your brain agrees with the result. With SSR there's a disconnect so you subconsciously notice them.
 
Warchild said:
Well its an interesting step in a new direction. But what do you do? new tech like this if you disregard the price, is exciting. But when you consider the cost, its the pricing that causes this internal struggle.
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Yeah it is a shame but Nvidia will eventually reap what they sew.

Either AMD will come along and spank them*, or they will run their own audience out of town with their prices.

I don't care how rich you are, £1300+ is a stupid amount of money for a GPU. TBH? if you had any sense you wouldn't be buying things like that in the first place, hence why you are rich.

All of the rich people I know are as mean as dishwater tbh. That's why they're friggin rich in the first place.

*Now look I don't want that misconstrued so let me make it clear.

I am under no illusions whatsoever that AMD are about to come along and kick Nvidia's ass in terms of performance. None, at all. However, I am confident that eventually they will make a card that is "good enough" and the right price to kick Nvidia's arse. Just like how Ryzen did to Intel. We all know Intel is still faster, and Ryzen gen 1 were limited to 4ghz. However, even with the clock deficit the prices were amazing. So many people are buying AMD and Intel now look like a bag of aholes.

And I am confident that eventually they will come up with some method of RT at the right price and every one will breathe a sigh of relief. I hear Intel are trying too.

They will get their comeuppance eventually. Now that Intel have been bitch slapped by AMD they will lash out at some one, most probably Nvidia.
 
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Welp, just confirmed I'm never going back to TomsHardware USA again.


On another note, that Lian-Li Lancool One they showed at the start of the video is actually pretty damn sexy. Might retire my H440 (again) for one of those
 
g0ggles1994 said:
Welp, just confirmed I'm never going back to TomsHardware USA again.


On another note, that Lian-Li Lancool One they showed at the start of the video is actually pretty damn sexy. Might retire my H440 (again) for one of those
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Yeah, it's pretty shameful really. Glad I ditched the site years ago.
 
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