Newbie Help

[NugentS]

Guys, can you offer me some advice please. At the end of the tax year I intend to claim a fairly significant (to me) quantity of money back from the Government and will use this (plus top up) to purchase a new PC. The spec, based on current availability is below – which is what I would consider buying if using air cooling......

BUT

I am considering using water cooling as I am tempted by the concepts of:

Better Cooling including being able to cool additional components

Less Noise - preferably no noise

Opportunity for overclocking

I am a complete novice to water cooling

I have built my own PCs (and others for many years now)

I have never overclocked a PC – and I think it’s about time I tried

I consider myself technically competent – but no master craftsman

Current Proposed Setup

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 FX62 or 6000+ or better

Memory: GeIL 4*1GB PC6400 etc or better

Graphics: Nvidia 8800GTX (one only to start with - might move to two when they are a lot cheaper)

Mobo: Asus Crosshair

Power: Tagan 900W ATX 2.01 Turbojet Quad SLi Silent PSU (but would prefer a modular PSU)

Case: CoolerMaster Stacker 830 Evolution or just the 830

Having considered water cooling, I reckon that IF I am going to do it – then I want to do it properly so I would like to be able to water cool the following components

Compulsory: CPU, GPU (& Memory) & System Memory

Optional: Hard Drives and 2nd GPU (& Memory), Chipset

[I acknowledge that most experts seem to think that water cooling the chipset is a waste of time so may drop that]

I also want some sort of monitoring / shutoff in the event of coolant leak (OK - so its likely to be a big bang and a hurried check on my insurance), pressure loss or heat spike.

The setup needs to be silent – or as near as makes no difference. The PC tends to run 24*7 in varying ambient temperatures. I also don’t want it to look like it’s been put together using string and ceiling wax (whatever that is) although I am indifferent to transparent panels and UV etc.

I note that Thermaltake as do other suppliers do a number of cases with built in watercooling but know nothing about the capacity of the pump / radiator system to say whether or not they have enough capacity for what I want to achieve and I would hate to buy a rig and then have to replace / throw it away because it doesn’t have the grunt. I also note that the general opinion of most watercooling professionals is that DIY is better and cheaper than kits.

I plan on buying over the next month or two all the water cooling parts I need along with the case so I can plan the setup / installation. The actual PC components will be purchased after the Government gives me my refund. (unless I can't wait)

Advice, comments, suggestions and abuse (friendly) are all welcome………

Regards,

Sean

 

[FarFarAway]

I would watercool:

CPU and GFX

Chipset maybe

RAM + HDD's - no point

CPU block: Swiftech Apogee GT or D-Tek Fuzion

GPU: DD full cover or Eddie EK block is my preference, although people seem to like non-full cover blocks.

I'd go 1/2" tubing with jubilee clips to secure it and use a Laing D5 pump

For dual GPU and CPU you'll need a 360mm RAD - thermochill are good

As for hardware - do you have the AMD kit already? If not then go C2D

Watercooling guide here

Intel Overclocking guide here

 

[weihk]

if possible, forget AMD for now.

and for watercooling part, if you really insist in cooling everything in return for a very very quiet rig, then i'd suggest the following.

CPU - Swiftech apogee / D-Tek fuzion (just like Kempez said)

GPU - EK full cover

NB - Swiftech MCW30 (or wait for EK, they are doing NB blocks aswell, see how good they are before order.....)

Mosfet - MIPS / EK(still waiting for EK blocks)

forget memory, HDD cooling, not much point.

1 or 2 DDC ultra pump

Thermochill PA120.3 and a PA120.1 if you somehow end up with quad core and SLi 8800 GTX

and i would use 10/8 hose with compression fittings......simply cause theres so many blocks it's gonna be a low flow system anyway, might aswell go for 10/8, and also, 10/8 have quick release fittings meaning if i wanted to, i can take which ever block out without needing to drain the loop....

hope that help

 

[NickS]

CPU Block: D-Tek Fuzion

GPU Block(s): 2x Swiftech MCW60's with their Ramsink Kit's for G80

Chipset: Just find a good heatsink if you really want to.

Pump: Swiftech MCP655/Laing D5

Radiator: Thermochill PA120.3 w/6x Yate Loon D12SL-12 (Push Pull)

Tubing: 7/16" Masterkleer

 

[PV5150]

All of the above recommendations are good. But, it comes down to personal preference:

* D-TECH Fuzion (swiftech apogee GT is too hit and miss personally)

* Eddie EK for full cover or Swifty MCW60 for GPU only (with Swifty ramsinks)

* Thermalright HR-05 or Noctua NC-U6 coolers for NB (you can add a small fan to both if you want improved cooling)

* Swiftech MCP655/Laing D5/Aquaxtreme 50Z

* Thermochill PA120.3 (you don't need fans in push/pull config, but if you do use gaskets to get a better seal)

* Masterkleer is the best tubing for tight bends, which you'll need if you're using SLI'd GTX's.

My setup is almost identical to this apart from the 2 x MCW60's for SLI, and I'm running dual pumps

 

[NugentS]

On advice from here (and at least one other board - I spent all day yesterday reading various board) I have dropped the AMD and SLI setup.

PC Spec is now C2D 6600 or 6700 (hmm wonder if I can afford 4 cores - Ow)

Single Nvidia 8800GTX - I am not going SLi or Crossfire

Don't know about the motherboard yet - but its not important at this stage.

I intend to use a coolermaster case (801/803) - their 4 into 3 boxes have a fan thats quiet - so I agree the HD is very optional.

Reading a number of boards does tend to indicate that the NB is worth cooling on Intel boards - not so much on AMD boards

I did find one website selling blocks for voltage regulators.......

What I do find curious is the general opinion of the lack of need for memory cooling. Its one of the hotter items out there. Jack the voltage up to 2.1V+ and I can just about burn myself on the heat spreaders.

Based on advice and reading a lot of forums I came up with the following:

Pump: 12V Laing DDC-1T Plus Ultra

GPU: EK-8800GTX

CPU: D-Tek Fuzion

Chipset No Idea - depends on mobo a lot say EK NB4 Intel Northbridge Cooler

Memory Koolance RAM-30-VO6 * 2 (NB. 1/4" / 6mm) or something else

Hard Drive Alphacool Silentstar Dual

Reservoir Some 5.25" slot mounted with visual water level indicator

Coolant Either Feser One or Fluid XP

Case Coolermaster 810 or 830+

Radiator BlackIce GTX III Gen2 Xtreme Triple Radiator + fans

PSU Not sure yet – modular and quiet. I guess 7-800 Watt ought to do a single GPU, watercooled, dual core, overclocked system

Some sort of monitoring system with emergency shutoff, flow monitoring, temperature monitor, fan control, LCD display.

Alphacool t-Balancer bigNG

Analog Extension Set

Waterkit

I would also like some sort of temperature display – but have no idea of what options I have as the t-balancer doesn’t appear to be able to display anything.

I have no real idea whether those components fit together or not.

Most people say substitute the PA120.3 for the BlackIce GTX III. The pump I chose because its got a good pressure although the flow rate is "only" 600l/h. The Laing D5 seems to have a much higher flowrate but I don't know about the pressure and I am aware that many blocks = low flow rate = high pressure required.

weihk - your "and i would use 10/8 hose with compression fittings......simply cause theres so many blocks it's gonna be a low flow system anyway, might aswell go for 10/8, and also, 10/8 have quick release fittings meaning if i wanted to, i can take which ever block out without needing to drain the loop...." seems like an amazingly good idea...

I am assuming that compression fittings / quick release fittings mean that I can disconnect a fitting and it self seals somehow.....

As an additional question... - where do you put the radiator with its 3 * 120mm fans or even 6 * 120mm fans?

Sean

 

[PV5150]

I would so pass on the koolance V06, and get one of these instead. You really needn't bother with the Silentstar either, save yourself some money. As far as coolant is concerned, Fluid XP is good, but Pentosin / HydrX are just as good and less expensive. Hell, you could just use deionised water and radiator coolant.

I would also like some sort of temperature display...Some sort of monitoring system with emergency shutoff, flow monitoring, temperature monitor, fan control, LCD display.

Alphacool t-Balancer bigNG

Analog Extension Set

Waterkit

Get yourself a Kama Meter, Webtemp or free temp monitoring proggy. Flow monitoring is expensive business if you want to do it right. I just paid AUS$240 for a flow meter and head pressure gauge for reviews, you really don't need it otherwise. Besides with some simple math you can work out your approximate flow rate anyway.

Most people say substitute the PA120.3 for the BlackIce GTX III. The pump I chose because its got a good pressure although the flow rate is "only" 600l/h. The Laing D5 seems to have a much higher flowrate but I don't know about the pressure and I am aware that many blocks = low flow rate = high pressure required.

If you want optimal thermal dissipation get the PA, but the BlackIce is quite the competent rad too. If you're gonna run that much stuff on your rig (that you listed above) you'll have near 'no-flow' lol. The d-tech is high flow and the mcw60 is pretty well too, but the hdd / ram coolers are gonna kill that flow to buggery. The Eddie EK chipset coolers I have heard good things about. If you want all that stuff, then you'll need dual pump or at least this.

As an additional question... - where do you put the radiator with its 3 * 120mm fans or even 6 * 120mm fans?

Externally (non-invasive, apart from running tubing through blanking plates) or internally (invasive - usually requiring cutting holes in your case and a lot of room )

 

[NugentS]

First of all thank you to everyone who has responded so far - I have a lot to think about.... and I will have a lot more questions....

However next question. I have on your advice decided to use a C2D processor - so what motherboard should I be using.

At the top end seems to be the Asus Striker Extreme but its very expensive and there is a lot of heat pipe stuff on it that I suspect would need removing in order to water cool the chipset - or I could just not water cool the chipset and add the extra fan onto the heatsink that Asus supply. Would that be enough.

I am not planning on using dual graphics so X-fire / Sli support doesn't matter. I would like a nice stable m/b with good sound and good overclocking potential and with bits in the right place for watercooling...

On the subject of memory cooling - I take your point about flow - so how about this idea (is it really stupid)?

Instead of putting the memory coolers into the main loop - tee off from the main loop, through another pump, through the memory coolers and back to the main loop through another tee. That way the main loop carries the bulk of the flow without the memory block restriction but the second pump would force water through the memory coolers. This pump could be a lot smaller I guess than the main pump.

Current proposed plan:

Pump: D5 tapped to/for 10/8 hose or back to the 12V Laing DDC-1T Plus Ultra

GPU EK-8800GTX

CPU D-Tek Fuzion

Chipset Depends on Mobo – am looking into that now - see above

Memory Ignore for now * See above

Hard Drive Ignore for now

Reservoir 5.25” mounted in case with visual water level indictator

Coolant Fluid XP

Using 10/8 hose with quick release couplings

Sean

 

[PV5150]

At the top end seems to be the Asus Striker Extreme but its very expensive and there is a lot of heat pipe stuff on it that I suspect would need removing in order to water cool the chipset - or I could just not water cool the chipset and add the extra fan onto the heatsink that Asus supply. Would that be enough.

I am not planning on using dual graphics so X-fire / Sli support doesn't matter. I would like a nice stable m/b with good sound and good overclocking potential and with bits in the right place for watercooling...

If you were to go for the striker, I would watercool the chipset (the 680i's are extremely toasty). But, there are other motherboards out there that could warrant your attention - ASUS P5B deluxe (965 chipset, faster than 975 and fine with aircooling), DFI ICFX3200T2R/G (again toasty, watercooling would be beneficial). Both very overclock friendly and solid

On the subject of memory cooling - I take your point about flow - so how about this idea (is it really stupid)?

Instead of putting the memory coolers into the main loop - tee off from the main loop, through another pump, through the memory coolers and back to the main loop through another tee. That way the main loop carries the bulk of the flow without the memory block restriction but the second pump would force water through the memory coolers. This pump could be a lot smaller I guess than the main pump.

Sounds nice, but I dunno if you could find a 'T' connector with 1/2" barb and a 6mm offshoot of the 'T'. I may be wrong. Plus, because water always travels the path of least resistance, I don't know how you'd go feeding that small a line, and the additional pump however small would really be a waste. Your best option is still with the XTC cooler I linked you to before.

 

[weihk]

hmmmmm.........

if you wait long enough, i'll be doing a watercooled Asus Commando board within a week or two depends on when the blocks are gonna come in.

with regards to Ram cooling, yeah, it can be hot, i run 2.3v on my rams, and they are at 44c most of the time, it isnt THAT bad, if i really want to, i can always put a fan on it to cool them. (note, Cosair does a Ram cooling solution)

and about the T-Balancer, here is a thought, i have mine controlling the fans on my PA120.1 and PA120.3, its temp controlled, meaning i set it up as X-amount of Temp = X-amount of Fan power.

i have 4 inline temp sensor in my loop, 2 before Rad for Fan control and 2 after Rad for my interest in how well the heat is being taken out, you might not need this.

and T-Balancer do have a Auto shut off function, you set a Temp for it to activate.

also, T-Balancer can be very very good, it tells me what my water temp is, what my Ram and Case Air temp is, and if i really want to, can configure it with other 3rd party software to show a whole lot of other temps.

mmmm........thats all i can come up with at the moment......i'll add more later if i come up with anything.......

 

[NugentS]

The T-Balancer is a must. I design networks for a living and firmly belive in being able to monitor & control...

I am still debating build myself and getting someone to build for me.

Sean

 

[NugentS]

Thank you to everyone who has helped out with their advice and comments. My decision is made and I am just finalising the details with my chosen supplier. I should be in a position to order everything tommorrow

After it arrives I will be back as I will need some help with overclocking the system - the whole point of the exercise...

Sean