New Ryzen System Hiccups

[Coxey]

Hey there!
TL;DR & question(s) at the end.
Having a little trouble putting my finger on where my problem lies, if it is indeed a problem. Wasn't really sure whether this thread belongs here or in the Memory section, sorry if it needs moving.
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Specs:
Ryzen 1700
MSI B350 Pro Carbon
Corsair 2x8GB 3200MHz LPX-White [CMK16GX4M2B3200C16W]
MSI 7970 Lightning BE [temporary]
Corsair AX860 PSU
Windows 10 x64
===============
Got the system installed, OS installed and everything running stable in benches & extended gaming sessions on stock settings/auto settings.

Was happy that I had good components and could begin to tinker a little bit. I started off with the RAM as I have a set of DDR4 2x8GB 3200mhz that was stock clocked at 2133 I believe.

I typically prefer trying out the XMP/ "A-XMP" profiles, and if they work.. Great. The B350 MSI PRO CARBON comes with two profiles (2933 & 3200). I set it to the 2933 profile, saved and booted into the OS fine, did some benching & gaming with no crashes or hangs/lags. I thought "great!" Until I tried to reboot, I got hit by an infinite pre-bios boot loop.

Reset the CMOS and for the sake of it I tried the 3200 profile, not expecting it to work any better. The same thing happened, saved the bios settings, booted and tested fine, then tried a reboot... Infinite bootloop. (The bootloops would happen regardless of restart, or full shutdown and startup)

CMOS reset again, then went on to trying each of the BIOS versions, non of which helped or changed the way the problem occurred. Also tried a fresh OS install on another drive just for the sake of it which once again, didn't change anything.

So the only way I could use the system was on full stock RAM settings. I tried doing a mild OC on the Ryzen 1700 just to see whether that would even cause the system to crash / enter bootloops (which it didn't), got it to 3.4GHz stable, only have the stock cooler so didn't bother pushing further.. System remained stable.

Started considering a refund/RMA on parts and noticed that the Corsair DDR4 3200mhz 2x8GB LPX black (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16) SPECIFICALLY wasn't on the MSI Ryzen Memory compatibility list for my mobo, but the White & Red versions are CMK16GX4M2B3200C16W / CMK16GX4M2B3200C16R. Ultimately this was my mistake, but easy to do if you're a numpty like me.

SO... I sent back the black LPX and got the White LPX counterparts (still 3200mhz).

Plugged them in, booted at stock as expected - stable.
Applied the A-XMP profile 1 (2933MHz)... - stable WITHOUT boot loops (woohoo some progress)
Tried A-XMP profile 2 (3200mhz)... - bootloops.. (Doh!)

*and breathe* - if you stuck with me this far, thank you .

So this is currently where I'm at, a stock Ryzen 1700 with the ram running at 2933 completely stable with no bootloops.
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TL;DR

-Bought new system (CPU, Mobo, RAM).
-Couldn't raise 3200MHz RAM above safe stock settings 2133+ (would enter infinite boot loop)
-Found out the Corsair BLACK LPX isn't on the compatibility list but the WHITE & RED versions are...
-Ordered White counterparts, which works @ 2933 stable (which the BLACK LPX didn't) but not 3200.
- System stable at 2933MHz on RAM

My question(s) are...
-Is this a teething issue (Should I just sit tight on 2933 and hope that future updates will allow me to raise the RAM to 3200)
-Or is this a picky motherboard / possibly faulty.

I'm leaning towards the first answer and am completely happy for now just running the RAM at 2933, provided there's at least half a chance that one day down the line I'll be able to bump it to 3200.

Things I tried:
All versions of currently available BIOS
Fresh OS on a new drive
Manually setting DRAM voltage, frequency & timings @ manufacture's settings.
SOC increase to 1.18

Any insight / advice on whether I should be happy with what I've got or pursue a different combination of components welcome.

Thanks in advance!

 

[J-a-c-o-b]

I decided to find some reviews for this, found a review from tweaktown below.

http://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/8/1/8175_54_msi-x370-gaming-pro-carbon-motherboard-review_full.png

They have a test system of which has a corsair vengeance 3000MHz kit, which they were running at 2666MHz, judging by their screenshots, the review never stated why the RAM was running at that speed, although I only skimmed through it.

My money is on a BIOS update fixing this.

 

[Avet]

You can try putting all the memory settings in manually. That could help.

 

[Coxey]

-snipped-
My money is on a BIOS update fixing this.

Thanks for having a little look - this is interesting and I'll definitely started searching around this avenue.

You can try putting all the memory settings in manually. That could help.

I did try setting the DRAM frequency to 3200 with the DRAM voltage at the maximum stated (1.35V) but no joy.

Unless you mean going further into it with the timings and other aspects, personally never tweaked with timings much.

The part that confused me was corsair provides a set of 4 values, where as my BIOS has the options for 5.
I may need a little lesson here, I'll have to take the time to learn what timing goes where.


From manufactures page: "Tested Latency: 16-18-18-36"

My BIOS Options (screenshot attached): tCL, tRCDRD, tRCDWr, tRP, tRAS.



Thanks for your interest and input so far!

 

[Avet]

EYes i taught about putting everything manually. Do nut run XMP just write down those values and put them in yourself.

Edit: You can also try giving SOC voltage a little more umf. DO NOT GO ABOVE 1.2 VOLTS! DO NOT PUT 1.2 VOLTS! Check the current value and give it a little more power. 0.1 steps. It could help with the memory. This will raise your CPU temperature.

 

[Coxey]

EYes i taught about putting everything manually. Do nut run XMP just write down those values and put them in yourself.

Edit: You can also try giving SOC voltage a little more umf. DO NOT GO ABOVE 1.2 VOLTS! DO NOT PUT 1.2 VOLTS! Check the current value and give it a little more power. 0.1 steps. It could help with the memory. This will raise your CPU temperature.

No luck even on manual settings! Tested:
XMP: OFF
DRAM Freq @ 3200
DRAM Voltage @ 1.350V
Timings @ "16 18 18 18 36" in order that the screenshot in previous post lists.

I noticed that A-XMP profile 1 (2933MHz) sets DRAM Voltage to 1.360 (0.010 overvolt) not sure if this helps / indicates anything.

For testing sake, I'm going to manually enter XMP OFF - 2933 @ 1.350v with 16, 18, 18, 18, 36 Timings. Will edit in the result.

Edit: Doesn't work. PC bootloops pre bios with all the settings mentioned above. (without touching SOC)

Edit2: Just found an interesting post by someone with a similar setup to mine (see screenshot) - What's worrying is that he posted that 3 months ago (before the several BIOS patches MSI have now released) Going to do some more digging. (didn't want to self-bump thread so just adding in this edit )

Edit3: I looked deeper into the gentleman who posted the thread in the screenshot, one month after that screenshot was taken he states that after 3 different memory sets he was able to get a fully stable 3200mhz but only after grabbing G-SKILL FlareX's "for AMD" RAM.


It's looking to me like this is a case of early-days compatibility issues rather than a fault.

 

[WYP]

Have you adjusted your SoC Voltage, it needs s bump to run high-speed memory a lot of the time.

For 3200MHz my 1700X doesn't even need 1.1V for stability.

 

[Coxey]

Have you adjusted your SoC Voltage, it needs s bump to run high-speed memory a lot of the time.

For 3200MHz my 1700X doesn't even need 1.1V for stability.

Last night I tried gradually bumping the SOC until I got to 1.18 with still no success.

 

[NeverBackDown]

You'll just have to wait for new BIOS then. If adding more volts to the SoC or even the memory itself isn't helping, it's either BIOS or bad(as in not as capable) Memory Controller on the CPU itself.

 

[Coxey]

You'll just have to wait for new BIOS then. If adding more volts to the SoC or even the memory itself isn't helping, it's either BIOS or bad(as in not as capable) Memory Controller on the CPU itself.

Gotcha thank you for the input. Considering the stability at 2933 I think I'll hedge my bets on a BIOS update rather than going through the rigmarole of randomly replacing parts.

 

[Bartacus]

Do you have a "DRAM boot voltage" option in your BIOS? Some Ryzen folks on OCN reported some success with setting the DRAM boot voltage to 1.4, but with the actual regular DRAM voltage set to 1.35v. So the RAM gets a bit more voltage on boot up to get over the memory training hurdle.

 

[Coxey]

Do you have a "DRAM boot voltage" option in your BIOS? Some Ryzen folks on OCN reported some success with setting the DRAM boot voltage to 1.4, but with the actual regular DRAM voltage set to 1.35v. So the RAM gets a bit more voltage on boot up to get over the memory training hurdle.

Thanks for the reply.

Can't find anything named EXACTLY "DRAM / DDR boot voltage" but included screenshots of anything that might share a different name but same purpose. (I'm unfamiliar with this level of tinkering so not 100% on what the alternative names could be) Perhaps VPP Voltage? - Wouldn't start adjusting it without advice.

Went back to auto NB Voltage as it didn't allow me to get any further than where I am with auto.

Edit/Side note: I'm still within a full-refund no questions asks time period, so if anyone believes going for a different board, or even an x370 would yield a better CHANCE at higher DRAM frequency I would bite the bullet and give it a try.

 

[Bartacus]

Hmm, there shouldn't be another name for it, unless this is something specific to Asus boards (my Crosshair 6 Hero X370 board has it). It simply sets a unique DRAM voltage ONLY for the boot up process. Once booted, it reverts to the standard DRAM voltage you have set to 1.360v above. But maybe it's Asus only.

If I were you, I'd be happy with 2933, but see how low you can get your memory timings. According to some, running lower speed memory with tighter timings can net you as good or better performance than higher speeds / looser timings. I'm patiently waiting for the BIOS to improve for my CH6 Hero. I've spend enough time tinkering to know that it isn't worth the trouble, since every BIOS update seems to fix one thing and break another.

 

[Coxey]

Hmm, there shouldn't be another name for it, unless this is something specific to Asus boards (my Crosshair 6 Hero X370 board has it). It simply sets a unique DRAM voltage ONLY for the boot up process. Once booted, it reverts to the standard DRAM voltage you have set to 1.360v above. But maybe it's Asus only.

If I were you, I'd be happy with 2933, but see how low you can get your memory timings. -snipped-

I'll have one last glance at every disposable option in the BIOS but I'm positive I checked everything. If I haven't edited within 15 minutes of posting this reply then I haven't found it.

The general consensus I'm getting is that I should be pretty happy with 2933, and I'm coming around to the idea with being happy with it. If I remotely change any of the timings - even loosening them up, the computer starts boot looping.

I'm going to look more into the VPP voltage tonight / tomorrow and see if I can find anything relevant to this.

 

[Coxey]

I know made this thread a while back now but thought I'd give an update in case anyone can relate to this threads issues.

Recently a wave of AMD chipset drivers (network chipsets/drivers etc as well) came through, including a new BIOS for my motherboard (7B00-14 for the MSI B350 Pro Carbon) and since installing and updating all of these, I decided to give my RAM one more try at 3200.. (tldr; it would not budge over 2933MHz no matter what)

Huzzuh! It works just like that. Not done extensive testing on stability but the fact the A-XMP profile now sets it to 3200MHz @ 1.36v and boots successfully (with a minor stress test) is good news for me.

I've yet to set up a manual OC, but I'm presuming it'll work. (got a bit excited and headed straight here to update) I might try pushing my CPU a tiny bit since these updates came through I might be able to get a bit further.

Any more hiccups or dramatic increase in cpu OC headroom I'll update, if not then everything is working well.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Glad to hear you got it working. Ryzen has for sure come a long way

 

[HJ1mech]

Glad you get it sorted for 3200. I have the Ryzen 7 1700 and the exact same ram kit as you running on the MSI B350 Tomahawk Arctic and it's running stable at 3200. Didn't even have to touch the SOC. Oh BTW the stock cooler will handle a 3.7 OC just fine. I did notice that the fan curves at least on my Arctic we're a bit to LAX in my noob opinion so had to make them a tad more aggressive.