need help choosing upgrade from HD 5850

I fear you're getting too heated in all of this...
The guys have shown you quantitative evidence to back up their opinions and advice - results that can more than likely be found all over the web.
Yes, the 7970 can achieve better MAXIMUM overclocks, but we are talking about LN2 etc. here.
 
Max OC to MAX OC the 7970 is faster than 680 but reference for reference the 680 is faster than 7970 because of the higher reference clock speed of the 680. Clock for Clock the 7970 is faster than the 680. 670 is slower than both 680 and 7970 end of story LOL. PS it's not correct to say a 670 is faster than 680 when the 670 you are referring to is OCed and the 680 is @ reference clock speeds LOL. OC to OC and stock to stock is fair and correct.
I think I see where you are coming from but trying to compare performances based on clock speeds is only indirectly relevant between cards. It's the same as comparing an FX4100@4GHz to a 2500k@4GHz and expecting the same performance. Even comparing the same card made by different 3rd party manufacturers doesn't often produce the results you expect.

Take a look again at that chart:
The 680 is the reference design which sports a 1006-1058 core clock including turbo.
The 7970 is the gigabyte OC design which comes with a 1000MHz clock.
So based on those figures you would expect the 680 to be 0-6% faster than the 7970 yet the results show the opposite trend with the 7970 performing noticeably faster in 4/7 games and the 680 is better in only 1.

Secondly the 670 that TTL tested was the reference design which had a core clock of 915-980MHz so you would expect the 680 to be 9-10% faster which it really isn't.

Thirdly the 670 is far from being categorically slower than both cards...
Results at stock:
WSUOt.jpg
It maybe that technically the 680 is a faster card. After all it has a greater clock speed (at stock) more cores etc but these are just numbers and words.

For whatever reason, whether games are unable to take advantage of the extra power, whether the cards are bottlenecked by something or even that those advantages actually do nothing at all - regardless we see that in real world games (where it actually matters) we just aren't seeing what we expected.

We certainly aren't seeing anything where the performance even remotely matches the extra cost over the other cards.
 
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I think I see where you are coming from but trying to compare performances based on clock speeds is only indirectly relevant between cards. It's the same as comparing an FX4100@4GHz to a 2500k@4GHz and expecting the same performance. Even comparing the same card made by different 3rd party manufacturers doesn't often produce the results you expect.

Take a look again at that chart:
The 680 is the reference design which sports a 1006-1058 core clock including turbo.
The 7970 is the gigabyte OC design which comes with a 1000MHz clock.
So based on those figures you would expect the 680 to be 0-6% faster than the 7970 yet the results show the opposite trend with the 7970 performing noticeably faster in 4/7 games and the 680 is better in only 1.

Secondly the 670 that TTL tested was the reference design which had a core clock of 915-980MHz so you would expect the 680 to be 9-10% faster which it really isn't.

Thirdly the 670 is far from being categorically slower than both cards...

It maybe that technically the 680 is a faster card. After all it has a greater clock speed (at stock) more cores etc but these are just numbers and words.

For whatever reason, whether games are unable to take advantage of the extra power, whether the cards are bottlenecked by something or even that those advantages actually do nothing at all - regardless we see that in real world games (where it actually matters) we just aren't seeing what we expected.

We certainly aren't seeing anything where the performance even remotely matches the extra cost over the other cards.
Your graphs are FALSE and misleading I suggest you take them down and provide substantiated links from trusted sources such as TTL, Tom's Hardware, Guru3D ect ect ect.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/2
 
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I fear you're getting too heated in all of this...
The guys have shown you quantitative evidence to back up their opinions and advice - results that can more than likely be found all over the web.
Yes, the 7970 can achieve better MAXIMUM overclocks, but we are talking about LN2 etc. here.
Problem is mate he is providing an unsubstantiated OPINION in a graph form with no supporting links and it is not a verified APPLES TO APPLES comparison which is why it is invalid and just plain incorrect.
 
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Problem is that they are substantiated. Make the graphs yourself. All you have to do is copy the figures off of TTL's review and put them into excel:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/nvidia_gtx670_review/5

Here's another review taken from Tom's hardware which is one of the sites you mentioned.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gtx-670-review,review-32443-15.html

Depending on which review you look at (including guru3d and hardocp which you linked), which games, resolutions tested and the drivers available at the time the 680 is barely faster than the 670 or not faster at all. It is not worth an £100 which is what I'm trying to get across to you...it is maybe worth £20 more.

Then when compared when overclocked any apparent advantage is lost:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5818/nvidia-geforce-gtx-670-review-feat-evga/19

I don't see why this is so complicated and why I am having to repeat myself.
 
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Problem is that they are substantiated. Make the graphs yourself. All you have to do is copy the figures off of TTL's review and put them into excel:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/nvidia_gtx670_review/5

Here's another review taken from Tom's hardware which is one of the sites you mentioned.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gtx-670-review,review-32443-15.html

Depending on which review you look at (including guru3d and hardocp which you linked), which games, resolutions tested and the drivers available at the time the 680 is barely faster than the 670 or not faster at all. It is not worth an £100 which is what I'm trying to get across to you...it is maybe worth £20 more.

Then when compared when overclocked any apparent advantage is lost:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5818/nvidia-geforce-gtx-670-review-feat-evga/19

I don't see why this is so complicated and why I am having to repeat myself.
The fact is your "HOME MADE GRAPH" was based on your opinion which is far to highly optimistic to put it nicely.
 
How is a quantitative graph based on opinion? Wut?
It's not legit the 670 is not that much better than the 680, 7970 LOL it's a lower card of the three. The graph he posted is not substantiated as all like you are trying to erroneously claim is all I am saying. The facts from reputable sources paint a different picture then the one you guys are falsely trying to paint.
 
It's not legit the 670 is not that much better than the 680, 7970 LOL it's a lower card of the three. The graph he posted is not substantiated as all like you are trying to erroneously claim is all I am saying. The facts from reputable sources paint a different picture then the one you guys are falsely trying to paint.

You are being very rude, he linked a toms hardware review of the 670 but you ignore it and his graph was made using benchmarks done by ttl
 
You are being very rude, he linked a toms hardware review of the 670 but you ignore it and his graph was made using benchmarks done by ttl
TH review does not claim the 670 as the flagship best performing nvidia card like you guys are so erroneously boasting ... So when people claim sensational fanboy rhetoric I tend to not be so willing to follow for I only look at the facts not a user made fanboy graph that counts for nothing but wishful fanboyism.
 
Ha, I was waiting for the fanboysm card. It's always funny because what that usually means is that they are they fanboys! You started the argument by saying this dude:
Sounds like another one of them mantras I have been hearing like 670 perform better than 680 LOL Bullocks I say complete and utter Bollocks LOL.

I simply quoted other respectable reviews (and yea, I put TTL's results into a graph to make it easier to read...) to illustrate that the 680 is not categorically faster. Sometimes it's not even faster at all and is NEVER £100 better. It is as simple as that.

Just noticed that my original post with the graphs in was chopped by the forum...I definitely said more and didn't stop mid sentence (damn these forums for not being editable!). Anyway, this conversation is dead and the OP hasn't posted what he wants to take away from all this...

I'm done with this thread tbh, there's no progress to be made here. Thanks to Seumas and Josh for the support though! ^_^
 
Ha, I was waiting for the fanboysm card. It's always funny because what that usually means is that they are they fanboys! You started the argument by saying this dude:


I simply quoted other respectable reviews (and yea, I put TTL's results into a graph to make it easier to read...) to illustrate that the 680 is not categorically faster. Sometimes it's not even faster at all and is NEVER £100 better. It is as simple as that.

Just noticed that my original post with the graphs in was chopped by the forum...I definitely said more and didn't stop mid sentence (damn these forums for not being editable!). Anyway, this conversation is dead and the OP hasn't posted what he wants to take away from all this...

I'm done with this thread tbh, there's no progress to be made here. Thanks to Seumas and Josh for the support though! ^_^
I am not refuting the 670 is the better value more so just that you guys erroneously put the 670 on a pedestal far to high over the 7970 and 680 which is indeed BOLLOCKS. Stock for Stock "APPLES TO APPLES" the 670 is always more or less behind the 680 in performance not always by much but it is always behind non the less. Now 670 vs 680 OC to OC "APPLES TO APPLES" we see the same thing 680 leading the 670 albeit not by much as you would expect. You are trying to compare "apple to oranges" and trying to sluff it off as fair and substantiated which it is not it is however misleading. I do completely agree that the 670 is the much better deal price/performance wise as you are getting very closed to the same performance of a 680 and generally outpacing the reference 7970 to boot.
 
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