looking to upgrade

[osbert]

Hi all,

First time poster here. :wavey:

I'm looking to upgrade my gfx and psu either today or tomorrow.

Current system:

Q6600 G0 @ 400fsb x 6multi (2.4ghz)

Gigabyte GA-P35-DQ6

2 x 2GB OCZ Platinum DDR2 (OCZ2P8004GK) @ 1:1 cpu/mem

Force3D HD4870 Twin Turbo Black Edition

Jeantec 700w modular

Thinking about a Be Quiet! dark power pro 850W (so I have headroom for the future), and wondering whether I should go for another Force3D 4870 in crossfire, or an hd 4870x2...

Few things I'd like to pick your collective brain resources about since the last time I was fully up on my hardware, SIMMs were in, Gravis were killing Creative and watercooling was the glint in an madman's eye!

1) Anyone who has / had this Jeantec piece may know that while it seems to perform solidly enough the fan noise is unbearable... will the be quiet! really make that much difference? (I don't know if there's reviews on the jeantec around which consider noise, when I bought it, my old antec psu had blown and speedy replacement was a greater consideration than sanity)

2) Which would you rather have? The two Force3Ds or a 4870x2 (also, which make / model?)... and can I (also, is there any benefit to...) keep the current gfx card in if I get an x2?

3) Nothing by Asus please... they've screwed me over with shoddy products far too many times in the past!

Money isn't really that much of a factor here as not boozing for a month has seen me back in the black quite nicely However, I am one of those people that has always bought at the sweet spot in price / performance at the expense of a few fps here and there.

Thanks,

Os

 

[monkey7]

That's already a nice setup right mate, but if you really want to upgrade:

1) I was just about to say "the jeantech will be sufficient" until you mentioned the noise. I think the be quiet dark power pro series is a good choice, Jim was certainly positive about it if I remember the review correctly.

2) Depending on what the benchmarks say I'd go for an additional 4870x2. This combination is possible and should give you a nice fps raise for the money. Selling the old 4870 may however be better in price/performance.

Is the cpu running at stock at the moment? You might be able to clock it to at least 3.2gHz which will give you a nice boost in cpu based games. Or you could swap it out for an E84/5/600 and clock it to 4gHz+. Games usually enjoy two good threads more than four moderates.

 

[osbert]

Hey monkey7,

Thanks for the reply I've decided to hold fire with the psu and gfx card for a week or two... work getting in the way of free time!

I also think I need to approach this from a different mind-set too, the only real problems with my current system are the noise (and to an extent the pitch) of the jeantec's fan and the antec sonata (v1) case being a very tight squeeze against the force3D card.

I used to run a second 120mm fan behind the HDD cage drawing air in through the front and over the gfx card, but now there simply isnt any room for the fan to fit. This is my major problem I believe, the HDDs are quite toasty after a few hours use, and the jeantec fan 90% of the time is pushing full power and screaming away.

I've previously had those 60mm deltas on a cpu before so I didnt think any system noise could bother me any more, but its starting to drive me nuts again... so I'm going to reconsider my options.

1) a new case (preferably not too much bigger than the sonata, but size is less important than performance here), with enough airflow through large, quiet fans to keep cold air flowing through the case without hinderance by large gfx cards or heatsinks etc. The room I have the computer in unfortunately seems to kick up a lot of dust, so effective removeable meshes I can clean twice a month or so is going to be a great help. I'm looking at the HAF932 but a bit put off by the lack of filters, maybe I'll fashion some.

2) The be quiet! psu, I'll stick with the jeantec for a week, and if I can eliminate the fan whine substanially I may just leave it, but as it stands, this will be the 2nd part to replace.

3) I have not clocked the cpu post-build, I got 3ghz stable with 9*333fsb settings while installing I believe, but to run as a daily machine, I preferred to push 400 fsb around the board instead of clocking the cpu out of sync with the mem. If I can generate some headroom in the temps (naturally, the jeantec is at its most annoying whine because temperatures are starting to get silly in the case), some testing will be done on how high I can get the cpu, and the effects of dropping out of a 1:1 if I have to.

4) Back to the gfx card and the reason its in this forum category :S (sorry, should probably be in a less specific category)... I can run a 4870x2 in crossfire with the 4870 I have at the moment? Or will it work only at the speed of the slowest card?

Thanks guys,

Os

 

[monkey7]

Hmmm a new case. As you mainly seem to be using it for the job / education a not huge size would be good, right? I can tell you the HAF932 is a monster (it's right next to me) but cools well. Coupled with a fan controller it's quite silent though.

I'd take a look at the smaller lian li's. Most of them only have two 120mm fans but you do not need more unless you clock like a madman. I'm sure other people on oc3d can advise you on these cases

Going out of the 1:1 ratio will probably not hurt your performance. The higher gHz is worth the strange ratio's. Benchmarks will tell

The 4870x2 + 4870 will behave like three seperate cards. So while the core clocks adapt to the lowest you will not lose a lot of MHz. The x2 isn't really faster, it just has two cores.

<edit>

Just thought about something which hasn't been discussed in this thread at all. What cpu cooler are you using? You might want to take a look into a good cpu air cooler to get better clocks and a more silent system.

</edit>

 

[osbert]

arg, just lost what I had typed out :S it was something like this I think...

The size of the case is less important to me than it's performance really. If it can offer lots of quiet air, the benefit of bringing the whole system temp down will completely offset having to relocate it from it's current spot (I've already earmarked a space if I get a bigger case). I'll definitely take a look at some of the Lian-Li's though... were the 7B PLUS II / A17 something like you had in mind?

Good news about the ratio. I mainly use this pc for coding, which is thoroughly unintensive naturally, but games and music production are where the power is needed. Loading tons of virtual instruments can take an age with gaming settings of high timings and low mem bandwidth, so I've traditionally always gone for the highest reasonable fsb clock and tried to match the cpu to it. I'll definitely have to do some tests on switching out of 1:1 to get some more cpu speed over fsb...

Also good news about the 4870 acting as a triple card set up, I knew it was just two cores, but have never dabbled in multi-gpu setups before so had no idea whether the system would see cards, or cores The force3d runs a factory overclocked 770 / 950 I believe, but with a small desk fan assisting the cooling I've had it up to 800 / 1100 easily, w/o extra voltage, so if I can get a decent x2 I should have enough headroom to match the clocks.

Lastly, the cpu cooler is an arctic cooling freezer 7 pro (unlapped, with it's factory standard paste), which performed admirably while the front 120mm intake fan could still fit in the system. I'm generally quite happy with this cooler, although if I start o'cing this machine properly I'll be looking to switch out to a higher performance part.

Who knows, maybe it's time to go crazy and put water in the machine? Probably not though, I still can't quite get my head around that one

 

[nepas]

why have you got the multi turned down to 6,why not just have it at 9 so that your quad is at 3.6?

 

[osbert]

hi nepas,

stock is 2.4Ghz, cooling the system and reducing noise has become much more important for me than pushing out the highest clock possible. Besides, it is doubtful it would POST first time at 3.6 and while assembling I was keen just to get a nice fsb and start using the machine.

Like I mentioned, I will be taking the cpu and mem out of 1:1 in the future at the very least to run some tests on how much the bandwidth is affecting performance.

 

[!TIMMY!]

The AC7 is a decent cooler that comes with good thermal paste pre applied. So I would recommend getting a case that can house many fans, and using a fan speed controller to run them at a low rpm = less noise. I have 4 120mm fans, 1 x 100mm fan and 2 x 140mm fans in my PC all set to 1000-1200rpm and it isn't that loud.

Getting another 4870 / 4870X2 will create more heat in the case, and therefore you will need that extra cooling. If you don't play games at a high resolution, e.g. 1920 x 1200 or over, then I wouldn't bother with the 4870X2 as your CPU clock will be the bottleneck of your PC. Even 2 4870's may be bottlenecked by the CPU clock.

Therefore I would change the ratio's (e.g. 333/400) and overclock the Q6600 to at least 3.0ghz (which most Q6600's do on stock or just above stock volts). If your lucky you may even get the Q6600 up to 3.6ghz and then you can have your 1:1 ratio, but you may have to get a better cooler, e.g. a TRUE.

 

[tinytomlogan]

Ive got a couple of new and used cases in stock, also if noise is an issue I can sort you out with some water for it if needs be.

 

[osbert]

Thanks guys,

Been mental busy at work the last few and not had a moment to plan out what I'm gonna do...

But now I've had a look at your customisation stuff tom and it looks sweet! what cases do you have in at the moment? I would ideally like something that can fit 220mm+ fans, purely for acoustic and cooling reasons... Hence why I was thinking about the HAF 932. I've had thoughts on a paintjob now though and some customisation, I'll send you a message or probably create a new thread in a more suitable place when I've worked out the details though...

So, I think I'm going to get a larger case with much better airflow, water on the q6600, and a second loop for the 4870 if it's not too costly, with another 4870 on the same loop if I can hold off on the booze for another month... finally, some striped SSDs would be nice...

This will all follow an NEC 24WMGX3 and a be quiet! psu though... the monitor I've been thinking about for a while, and this jeantec is driving me nuts. Also need to pick up an artigo a2000 with a couple of caviar greens for a NAS...

phew, always seems like when I start to upgrade, one thing leads to another! :S

 

[tinytomlogan]

I can get any case you like tbh matey, world is your oyster

Do Have a CM Storm Sniper spare atm.

(you can pm once you have 15posts btw )

dont buy a nas, Ive got a netgear gigabit nas Im going to be selling soon

 

[osbert]

Ok, I've come back down to earth after having seen the awesome paint jobs you're doing and realised that having a real slick looking case is not high up enough on my list of requirements at the moment. (Due in part to having been informed of the amount of boozing I'll have to do at various parties in April...)

I've blown well over what I budgeted on originally on an NEC Multisync 24WMGX3 from overclockersuk, and a HAF 932 + Be Quiet! 850W from ebuyer...

Monitor was a necessity as I have a lot of graphic work lined up and the other two were just so I can get some peace and quiet while I'm doing so.

I don't think I'm quite ready for water yet, probably make a venture into it when the next gen cpus drop and i7's hit that sweet optimal bang for buck price point. I'll be checking back with you though when that happens, and hopefully I'll have planned out what I want to do more thoroughly then

Thanks all for your help, I'll post back with some results when everything's up.

Os

P.s. about the NAS, which model is it? a readyNas? how much you looking to sell it for? I was looking at the artigo so I could use it as a print server and run WHS or media centre on it...

 

[Ging3r]

i think to finish any build off you need a nice paint job!

You will get it done, you will see too many nice builds and want your own ;p

 

[osbert]

oh no doubt there's room for it in the future, I've got ideas on what I want, but still... nothing definite, and the only one that ever sees my case is me, so for the time being I'll be more than happy with just silencing this annoying psu and running the pc without worrying that the hdds are slowly cooking away.

 

[osbert]

quick update:

Highly recommend the NEC 24WMGX3, probably just about the best panel I've seen, quality for the size is comparable to the 30" cinema displays my colleagues use at work, and a damn sight better than the Samsung 245B TN panel I have! Multitude of inputs, great build quality, just great.

Innards transferred from v1 Antec Sonata -> HAF 932 without a hitch... be quiet psu may as well be silent. It's quieter than the massive case fans which are hardly loud @ 700RPM. Now the Jeantec has been eliminated the next port of call is silencing / replacing the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro HS/F as that has taken it's spot at the top of the noise making foodchain.

Well, it has now that I bumped the multi up to 8 anyway... 3.2 @ stock volts, ~25C idle / ~50C load, I was quite happy with that for a first test! ran prime95 for 24h... all went fine... One thing I noticed was how cool the case was and just the cpu hs/f heating up, within 15 seconds of prime stopping, core temps were back down around 25C... I don't know if this is normal these days but I'm sure it's never been that quick to cool in previous systems I've built.

So, will be seeing how high I can stably get this before easing it off to something more reasonable to run 24/7... And aside from that, enjoying 1920x1200 gaming at frame rates equivalent to my old 1280x1024s