Has your RTX 2080 Ti Died? - Reports of GPU deaths mount

[looz]

People buying RTX cards doesn't take anything away from you. If you find them a poor deal, well don't buy them. Who gives a damn beyond that.

It's up to competition to pick up the pace in order to drive the prices down, a large scale boycott isn't happening. It's not like the RTX pricing is entirely air either, the die sizes are massive and even the reference cards have beefy VRMs.

And I don't understand why you take pride in being rude. That just makes you a wanker. If there's an issue, it can be sorted in a civil manner as well.

 

[AlienALX]

People buying RTX cards doesn't take anything away from you.

Of course it does ffs. That's like you saying that people buying up every GPU known to man for mining didn't take anything away from me

Of course it did. I had a GPU die and literally could not afford to replace it. So I went without for about three months.

This is no different. "The actions of the few spoil it for the many" comes to mind.

 

[Bartacus]

Alien is bang on. Plus, anyone who praises early adopters for buying this stuff isn't thinking about it logically. Nvidia has a MASSIVE monopoly right now. Does anyone honestly believe that if no one bought any RTX cards that this would somehow be bad, and would somehow prevent Nvidia from moving the tech forward? Nonsense.

 

[AlienALX]

Alien is bang on. Plus, anyone who praises early adopters for buying this stuff isn't thinking about it logically. Nvidia has a MASSIVE monopoly right now. Does anyone honestly believe that if no one bought any RTX cards that this would somehow be bad, and would somehow prevent Nvidia from moving the tech forward? Nonsense.

I would imagine that any one with an ounce of sense would have weighed all of that up before losing self control and buying one.

I should also mention, right now, that the irony of people over paying for RTX when the RT part doesn't even exist is totally not lost on me.

I mean, how bad is a situation when you have people paying £1200 for a GPU that doesn't even f*****g do what it is supposed to do yet?

*that* is desperate cause for looking in the mirror and wondering why you need to do such things. I mean really, over paying for a product that doesn't even do what you are over paying for it to do yet.

Words fail me.

 

[Bartacus]

Todays generation doesn't think like we do buddy. The millenials I work with, while being technically smart at their jobs, aren't very smart when it comes to purchasing decisions. They are INCREDIBLY easily led by the media these days. Advertising makes a GARGANTUAN impact on these soft-minded boobs, and I don't understand it. These are HIGHLY TECHNICAL people working with me on enterprise level servers / SAN / routers / etc. It's almost like a generation of people weren't told (as we were) "don't believe the television". Replace the word "television" for "media" these days, but the message should still be the same: DO NOT BELIEVE. Be skeptical, question things, ask for details and specifics. Don't buy a product and ASSume things, READ, RESEARCH, and watch the Guv's videos.

 

[AlienALX]

Todays generation doesn't think like we do buddy. The millenials I work with, while being technically smart at their jobs, aren't very smart when it comes to purchasing decisions. They are INCREDIBLY easily led by the media these days. Advertising makes a GARGANTUAN impact on these soft-minded boobs, and I don't understand it. These are HIGHLY TECHNICAL people working with me on enterprise level servers / SAN / routers / etc. It's almost like a generation of people weren't told (as we were) "don't believe the television". Replace the word "television" for "media" these days, but the message should still be the same: DO NOT BELIEVE. Be skeptical, question things, ask for details and specifics. Don't buy a product and ASSume things, READ, RESEARCH, and watch the Guv's videos.

My cousin posted this on Facebook last night...

Which about sums up the world we live in now. It's all "I'm OK Jack" and "me me me".

Now me? well I try to put into life rather than just trying to take out. But that is how the world is now. Don't worry about how what you do makes other people feel just do it and screw them.

My cousin annoys me. Every time something doesn't go her way she is whining, and saying how nobody appreciates her. Which just says to me that she is looking for it and in that case she will never find it.

Nobody ever says they appreciate me. Do I care? do I heck. Bottom line is I do what I can to be a good person and that means considering others not just myself.

 

[grec]

Having as-fat-as-you-can margins on your high end so you can to subsidise the costs of the R&D for the low end products to increase total market share and hopefully revenue is how basically every company selling tiered products works, from cars to graphics cards.

People or companies with too much money or individual requirements willing to pay over the odds for a service is what pretty much every tech company relies on in order to generate the cash reserves required to create their lower-margin mainstream orientated products.

With RTX, NVidia has essentially just brought their enterprise-tier pricing levels to the lucrative "prosumer" and "more money than sense" markets. These people arn't the reason you can't buy an RTX card for £300, they're the reason RTX cards exist. If NVidia didn't have the upfront cash to fund a fairly risk product launch like this they probably would have just reserved the technology until it was more mature and economical, as AMD are probably doing. Neither is the "wrong" approach, and neither is particularly damaging to you as an individual.

 

[SPS]

Having as-fat-as-you-can margins on your high end so you can to subsidise the costs of the R&D for the low end products to increase total market share and hopefully revenue is how basically every company selling tiered products works, from cars to graphics cards.

People or companies with too much money or individual requirements willing to pay over the odds for a service is what pretty much every tech company relies on in order to generate the cash reserves required to create their lower-margin mainstream orientated products.

With RTX, NVidia has essentially just brought their enterprise-tier pricing levels to the lucrative "prosumer" and "more money than sense" markets. These people arn't the reason you can't buy an RTX card for £300, they're the reason RTX cards exist. If NVidia didn't have the upfront cash to fund a fairly risk product launch like this they probably would have just reserved the technology until it was more mature and economical, as AMD are probably doing. Neither is the "wrong" approach, and neither is particularly damaging to you as an individual.

Well said.

 

[Warchild]

Having as-fat-as-you-can margins on your high end so you can to subsidise the costs of the R&D for the low end products to increase total market share and hopefully revenue is how basically every company selling tiered products works, from cars to graphics cards.

People or companies with too much money or individual requirements willing to pay over the odds for a service is what pretty much every tech company relies on in order to generate the cash reserves required to create their lower-margin mainstream orientated products.

With RTX, NVidia has essentially just brought their enterprise-tier pricing levels to the lucrative "prosumer" and "more money than sense" markets. These people arn't the reason you can't buy an RTX card for £300, they're the reason RTX cards exist. If NVidia didn't have the upfront cash to fund a fairly risk product launch like this they probably would have just reserved the technology until it was more mature and economical, as AMD are probably doing. Neither is the "wrong" approach, and neither is particularly damaging to you as an individual.

Thank you for wording it better than I could!

 

[demonking]

Having as-fat-as-you-can margins on your high end so you can to subsidise the costs of the R&D for the low end products to increase total market share and hopefully revenue is how basically every company selling tiered products works, from cars to graphics cards.

People or companies with too much money or individual requirements willing to pay over the odds for a service is what pretty much every tech company relies on in order to generate the cash reserves required to create their lower-margin mainstream orientated products.

With RTX, NVidia has essentially just brought their enterprise-tier pricing levels to the lucrative "prosumer" and "more money than sense" markets. These people arn't the reason you can't buy an RTX card for £300, they're the reason RTX cards exist. If NVidia didn't have the upfront cash to fund a fairly risk product launch like this they probably would have just reserved the technology until it was more mature and economical, as AMD are probably doing. Neither is the "wrong" approach, and neither is particularly damaging to you as an individual.

Glad someone got in there before the pitch forks came out.
The only argument I have with the whole statement is that it's nvidia. I haven't seen anything official on the 2060 and below so I'd argue that if they reuse the 10 series and "refresh" them, those r and d costs on the lower end are not true in this case.
Don't mean to cause anymore issues on that subject, well said though as in general this is the way most businesses work. I import tyres for a living and all the r and d is done on the premium stuff. I have 2 brands, same company same raw materials, 2 slightly different tyres but 2 massively different costs because of that reason. He cheaper brand is using the older less reliable less cutting edge tech but 5 years ago would have been the premium option.

 

[Bartacus]

tgrech: you always make excellent points, and I couldn't possibly argue with what you wrote, but don't you think the scenario is a little bit different in a monopoly?

 

[looz]

They won't release a new mid/low end card before 10-series stock is sold.

 

[grec]

While there might not be any more cheaper RTX Turing cards, the R&D that went into Turing paves the way for whatever architecture comes next, which will almost certainly be a refined and more efficient evolution, particularly with regards to RT calculations because they will now have a wealth of real-world data to optimise the transistor/core allocation & instruction set for, just like when programmable pipelines were first introduced with CUDA on the G80 with the much more efficient & economical G92 coming a year later.

Turing's RT features are not going to stand the test of time performance wise but without it we'd have a major chicken and egg problem. The Titan V helped bridge the gap for developers a little but until they could get hold of real world RT hardware, optimisation and practical implementations of DXR and RTX would still have mostly been based on projections rather than hard data. Releasing it as a GeForce card was a logical way to start creating profit from the investment in RT more or less as soon as developers could start properly programming for it. I don't think this roll out would have been much different if Vega64 had turned out more competitive; a GPU design can take half a decade from initial planning phases to consumer release, and market competition only really effects pricing and marketing, but these are still more or less the largest and most complex consumer GPUs ever manufactured. If anything I think if AMD were more competitive then NVidia wouldn't have even risked launching these as gaming cards at all this early, possibly as Titan's, but these giant chips wouldn't be economical as a gaming chip usually, and it's inevitable that as the first generation of a new standard it will serve far more purpose to content producers than consumers, and the generations that follow from it will have a lot of low hanging fruit to pick.

Much cheaper and more efficient RT is inevitable from both AMD and NVidia, but it would never really be possible until someone bit the bullet and created that first gen "guinea pig" architecture, and obviously AMD was in no position to be taking risks like that.

 

[Bartacus]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that this is a major technological leap, but the financials are where all the hate comes from, obviously. So my question is this (long one):


if what I read is true, most of Nvidia's profits come from low to mid range cards, volume profit. The top end is a niche market (or so I read), and is less profitable. Enthusiasts are smaller in number than Joe Average. So how does selling the top dog at an insane price point drive all that forward? Unless it's inflated to dump remaining 1080/TI stock, but that's a VERY uneducated speculation.

 

[Avet]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that this is a major technological leap, but the financials are where all the hate comes from, obviously. So my question is this (long one):


if what I read is true, most of Nvidia's profits come from low to mid range cards, volume profit. The top end is a niche market (or so I read), and is less profitable. Enthusiasts are smaller in number than Joe Average. So how does selling the top dog at an insane price point drive all that forward? Unless it's inflated to dump remaining 1080/TI stock, but that's a VERY uneducated speculation.

Margins are bigger on high end GPUs. They sell less units, but earn more per unit. As tgrech said they needed to release GPUs so the developers could have something to make games on. With AMD nowhere Nvidia needed this launch because now all games will be developed on Nvidia hardware. And next year, when refresh will probably launch, they will have massive advantage over team red. This was the move to plant Nvidia as the dominant GPU manufacturer.

As for why prices are astronomical... It is a big die. Just because of it's size yields will be low. Probably it was pushed ahead of time, and the manufacturing process isn't any good yet. And also they can charge whatever they want, because AMD still can't match, let alone beat now end of life 2 years old Nvidia architecture. People will, and do buy them because, simply put, 2080 Ti is the best gaming GPU by quite a margin. They are sold out everywhere.

 

[NeverBackDown]

I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that this is a major technological leap, but the financials are where all the hate comes from, obviously. So my question is this (long one):


if what I read is true, most of Nvidia's profits come from low to mid range cards, volume profit. The top end is a niche market (or so I read), and is less profitable. Enthusiasts are smaller in number than Joe Average. So how does selling the top dog at an insane price point drive all that forward? Unless it's inflated to dump remaining 1080/TI stock, but that's a VERY uneducated speculation.

The profit margins are huge for higher end cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see a profit margin of at least 80%. Heck the new Iphone XR has a profit margin of 300%. It's not uncommon for large tech companies to have insane profit margins. In the case for Nvidia even though they sell less higher end cards the profit margins more than make up for it. The only sell mid range cards to gain market share. Market share is important as it keeps them well in the lead and therefore all there software and hardware is far more likely to get first pass on optimizations.

 

[Avet]

The profit margins are huge for higher end cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see a profit margin of at least 80%. Heck the new Iphone XR has a profit margin of 300%. It's not uncommon for large tech companies to have insane profit margins. In the case for Nvidia even though they sell less higher end cards the profit margins more than make up for it. The only sell mid range cards to gain market share. Market share is important as it keeps them well in the lead and therefore all there software and hardware is far more likely to get first pass on optimizations.

If you look how much each unit costs to make yes profit margins are very big. But what about R&D, and marketing? Who pays for that? That costs a lot of money, and unit's cost isn't only materials, manufacturing cost and shipping.

 

[Dicehunter]

Mate of mines 2080 Ti has started acting up, Founders Edition, Artefacting like crazy in all games.


Great quality control Nvidia have there on an £1100 product...

 

[Kaapstad]

The profit margins are huge for higher end cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see a profit margin of at least 80%. Heck the new Iphone XR has a profit margin of 300%. It's not uncommon for large tech companies to have insane profit margins. In the case for Nvidia even though they sell less higher end cards the profit margins more than make up for it. The only sell mid range cards to gain market share. Market share is important as it keeps them well in the lead and therefore all there software and hardware is far more likely to get first pass on optimizations.

You don't understand manufacturing at all.

NVidia will make the bulk of their money from the midrange cards, the Titan type cards will bring in very little if any profit as they just don't sell many. For a card like the Titan V they may even make a loss due to very low sales as design, advertising, promotion, distribution, production costs (made in small numbers) etc outweigh what they get from margins.

What cards like the Titans do for the company is to raise brand status/awareness which offsets the small amount of money made from them.

 

[looz]

Pretty sure bulk of Nvidia's money comes from selling Teslas and the like nowadays.