GTX 970 3,5GB + 0,5GB with 56 ROP and less cache than advertised.

[agent_x007]

Hi guys.

I didn't see this topic on site yet, and I appologise if I created second one.
But This Is Important.

Thanks to marketing and engineering team not talking enough - NV got itself into... a peculiar situation.

Few days ago NV confirmed GTX 970 had from the start one of L2 cache chunks (ie. 256kB one) switched off, and (in doing so) it means that 1/8th of total ROP's from GPU is also disabled (there are 56 ROP's in total, NOT 64).
BUT thanks to Maxwell trick, card still can adress the VRAM that would usually be lost due to missing ROP units.
In short : GTX 970 IS still a 4GB VRAM graphics card.

Downside to "trick" ?
Last 512MB of VRAM is slower than the rest (it's got around 1/7th of the "normal bandwidth" - to be more exact).
That's why NV "opted" for 3,5GB + 0,5GB configuration in GTX 970.
Of course, that last 0,5GB is accessed only in 4k + "Ultra" with Anti-Aliasing (ie. when VRAM usage get's over 3,5GB ), so performance drop isn't that bad (comparing GTX 980 4k vs. GTX 970 4k), but still... it can cause problems if OS dosen't know that last bit of memory is slower (and keeps sending important data there).

Maybe Tom could do a Video about this with some thoughts on GTX 970 in general ?

I based all this on pcper.com article (will link it here) : http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...Full-Memory-Structure-and-Limitations-GTX-970
Other articles about this issue :
Anandtech.com : http://anandtech.com/show/8935/geforce-gtx-970-correcting-the-specs-exploring-memory-allocation
Hardware.fr (translated to ENG from FR) : https://translate.googleusercontent...t.html&usg=ALkJrhhioO-0LvIVwMt02vN9TS-PEnMARQ

Thank U.

PS. One last thing : "52 ROP's number"
Well, SMM's in GTX 970 can do 52 Pixels/cycle, so that's the number I keep seeing poping out.
But with that logic, GTX 780 would have 32 or 40 ROP's (depending on which SMX's were disabled) and GTX 780 Ti would get 40.
ROP's can do for example AA without SMM's help.
+ Nvidia isn't stupid : They wouldn't put something in GPU if they couldn't use it - lol.

 

[WYP]

This is a very interesting piece of news, Nvidia have lied to us about the Specs of the GTX 970.

While the difference between the advertised specs of the GPU and the actual specs make a minimal difference, I am very concerned about this happening again, perhaps with a more significant difference in a components specs.

Owning a GTX 970 myself I am disappointed in Nvidia for not making this difference aware to us buyers from the start. TBH this makes me kinda wish I didn't buy Nvidia.

 

[steverebo]

surely this is a breach of some kind of advertising law as the item being sold is not as described

 

[jaspervandervalk]

So this is only an issue for GTX 970 cards not 980??

jasper

 

[steverebo]

Yep 970 only, Nvidia are on major damage control as it seems they have atleast breached EU trading regs.

I think the least Nvidia should do is give some kind of compensation to everyone who has purchased a gtx970 on the premise that it is a fully functional 4gb card and not a 3.5gb card with 500 meg of cache.

I don't think they should get away with this as they have my lied and then waited 4 months to come clean after everyone has cleared the shelves.

 

[Kushiro]

Unfortunately Nvidia technically hasnt lied, 970 owners are essentially still getting what they paid for. I am not saying what they did was right. This is sort of like where you get low end gpus with stupidly high amounts of mem on them. It is unlikely Nvidia will suffer any repercussions aside from a minor publicity hit. This will pretty much just blow over and soon people wont care anymore.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Unfortunately Nvidia technically hasnt lied, 970 owners are essentially still getting what they paid for. I am not saying what they did was right. This is sort of like where you get low end gpus with stupidly high amounts of mem on them. It is unlikely Nvidia will suffer any repercussions aside from a minor publicity hit. This will pretty much just blow over and soon people wont care anymore.

Until the EU fines them for trading laws as stated earlier. The issue isn't really the performance since most people don't play 4k or 1440p with stupid high AA(since it can't). It's the fact they lied and didn't even mention it. It's shady and untrustworthy. It shows the true color of the company tbh even if it isn't a big deal. It's the intentions that count most here.

 

[Doomslayer]

I don't think this will worry most people, Only the hardcore users

 

[Dawelio]

I don't think this will worry most people, Only the hardcore users

I'm with NeverBackDown on this one...

Until the EU fines them for trading laws as stated earlier. The issue isn't really the performance since most people don't play 4k or 1440p with stupid high AA(since it can't). It's the fact they lied and didn't even mention it. It's shady and untrustworthy. It shows the true color of the company tbh even if it isn't a big deal. It's the intentions that count most here.

You have paid for a product with the hope that it performs as the specifications of it are stated. But they aren't... and that is something.

 

[NeverBackDown]

I'm with NeverBackDown on this one...



You have paid for a product with the hope that it performs as the specifications of it are stated. But they aren't... and that is something.

I'd be more pissed about the intentions then the performance.. it's not slowing down until after 3.5GB of vram.. i'd never hit that so it wouldn't affect me nor most people who have it.. i don't own a 970 but my feelings wouldn't change.

 

[Kushiro]

Until the EU fines them for trading laws as stated earlier. The issue isn't really the performance since most people don't play 4k or 1440p with stupid high AA(since it can't). It's the fact they lied and didn't even mention it. It's shady and untrustworthy. It shows the true color of the company tbh even if it isn't a big deal. It's the intentions that count most here.

Sorry I think you missed my point. What I am trying to say is that you are technically getting what you pay for with this card. Something like this has never occurred, the product is capable of what it specifies. They did not specify where the memory comes from, nor have they ever done so. It was a smart move on their end, regardless of how unethical it was.

Like I said I am not defending Nvidia and they have been making some really stupid moves lately, however practically no one will care or remember it soon enough. One such example is the truth behind the Maxwell series energy efficiency. It works, however is not as it may seem.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Sorry I think you missed my point. What I am trying to say is that you are technically getting what you pay for with this card. Something like this has never occurred, the product is capable of what it specifies. They did not specify where the memory comes from, nor have they ever done so. It was a smart move on their end, regardless of how unethical it was.

Like I said I am not defending Nvidia and they have been making some really stupid moves lately, however practically no one will care or remember it soon enough. One such example is the truth behind the Maxwell series energy efficiency.

You're ignoring part of your own point here dude..
You would be surprised how long people will remember.. AMD drivers? Ya that was like so 3 years ago with the first launch of the HD7xxx series until the 12.11 drivers back in Oct 2012.. People still give them shit for it even when currently it is false. Never doubt the consumer.. they are assholes and don't forget.

 

[Kushiro]

You're ignoring part of your own point here dude..
You would be surprised how long people will remember.. AMD drivers? Ya that was like so 3 years ago with the first launch of the HD7xxx series until the 12.11 drivers back in Oct 2012.. People still give them shit for it even when currently it is false. Never doubt the consumer.. they are assholes and don't forget.

I dont understand what point I am missing, Nvidia released drivers that fried cards and many other things, yet not everyone bothers to remember. Practically no one thinks about Nvidias past mistakes before buying their products and their mistakes are mentioned less often, as opposed to AMD. Soon this thread will die and be buried with its facts. Then after a while it will blow over for Nvidia.

 

[Doomslayer]

I really don't see or hear people bashing Nvidia, unless it does happen

 

[Dawelio]

I'd be more pissed about the intentions then the performance.. it's not slowing down until after 3.5GB of vram.. i'd never hit that so it wouldn't affect me nor most people who have it.. i don't own a 970 but my feelings wouldn't change.

Still, both points still stand in my opinion, just different views on the matter

And I've actually got a replacement 970 today after first one had coil whine and this one has far worse... so my trust for Nvidia isn't looking very good I must admit. Never had any issues with my 6950 for 3 years lol.

 

[Doomslayer]

Wow this coil whine issue must be in the northern part of the world i haven't seen people done here having the same issue, I have a MSI GTX970 and i have no coil whine

 

[Dawelio]

Wow this coil whine issue must be in the northern part of the world i haven't seen people done here having the same issue, I have a MSI GTX970 and i have no coil whine

Well consider yourself lucky then pal, as it's quite annoying and even more annoying to actually having to drive to their store, turn it in for their testing for legit replacement (which takes 1-5 days) and then you need to drive there again in order to get the new card lol.

Funny ey?...

 

[Doomslayer]

Well consider yourself lucky then pal, as it's quite annoying and even more annoying to actually having to drive to their store, turn it in for their testing for legit replacement (which takes 1-5 days) and then you need to drive there again in order to get the new card lol.

Funny ey?...

Yeah it is but annoying tho

I think GTX970 is the quietest card i have ever owned, I think half the time my computer is not going until i look at it, but now i say this crap i might end up having problems :lol:

I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to rub it in either

 

[steverebo]

Nvidia have had to come clean because people are actually noticing frame drops and stuttering on the 970 because of the slow 500mb portion.

From what I understand not all games are tuned to avoid this slow memory so some people are getting frame rate drops and stuttering.

In my opinion with the economy being what it is the EU trading commission will jump at the chance to fine a huge company like nvidia and no matter what the end users think nvidia have clearly breached advertising laws as the gtx970 specs were advertised as one thing and then 4 months later advertised as another after hundreds of thousands of I unit's have sold.

It's morally and ethicaly wrong and nvidia should step up and outright apologise to the consumer

 

[Dawelio]

Yeah it is but annoying tho

I think GTX970 is the quietest card i have ever owned, I think half the time my computer is not going until i look at it, but now i say this crap i might end up having problems :lol:

I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to rub it in either

Sounds like you are rubbing it in ... although, I can admit on the quiet part, due to the semi-passive feature