B-Spoke valve pre amp project.
- Thread starter AlienALX
- Start date
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
There's some amazing digital technology out there now pioneered by guys like Strymon, TC Electronic, Fractal Audio, and Kemper, but it's still digital. No matter how advanced the chips become, it's still en emulation of the 'real thing'. Digital effects pedals have more of a place to me than digital amps. Digital pedals allow so much control that it's worth the compromise. To have tap tempo (tap the rate of the repeats) in a tube delay pedal is practically impossible. But it can be done for £100 in a digital delay pedal.
Don't forget Valves are meant to be driven loud too for that perfect sound. Something solid state still can't quite match without sacrificing a little sound quality.
Anways,
I have tried many amps, pedals and guitars. Nothing can compete with Valve amps and analogue pedals. You can modulate a sound as much as you want, adjust the DSP for hours and hours, but it will never sound as natural as valves with analogue pedals.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
^ The man is right.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
It's all personal taste. It's not that black and white.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Yeah, it is, but there is still a quantifiable reason tubes sound better. Solid state amplifiers often distort with odd-order harmonics while vacuum tube amplify with even-order harmonics, which is natural multiple of the input frequency (0 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 etc). Solid state amplifiers distort differently (1 - 3 - 5 - 7 etc) and this results in a less full, detailed, and warm sound. It has a more edgy and aggressive sound. A naturally distorted solid state amp sounds like a tin of bees while a naturally distorted tube amp sounds... natural.
Then you have the softer compression of tubes that handle the louder transients better, or 'peaks' (think 'pops' or 'thumps'). You also have the gradual distortion that occurs from using higher voltages in valve amps. Solid-state amps use lower voltage supply rails to operate and the output can exceed the supply voltage. When that happens they don't compress and gradually clip, they simply cut off the output signal at that level. Sine waves become square waves immediately and the sound is not pleasant.
It's subjective whether you prefer that sound, but there is more to it than just personal taste.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
Pretty sure you copied that from somewhere. I've read that nearly word for word before
It is personal taste and there is no "this is better" because xxxx reasons. You cannot quantify it because nobody hears the same at every frequency. The transients you refer to are different yes, but you need to get to a point where it becomes noticeable, and at that volume, you'd be stupid to try. For guitar amps and such many people still use tube based because to them it's just better. Whether it's the elitism of "tube" amps or not, bassists in general prefer it. Good for them, more options won't hurt them. it just means they think they get the best sound and for a music listener, that's all I care about.
Also personal opinion, but "natural" sound is subjective to the person. Which leads us back to the personal taste thing. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but you two make it seem like it's a immediately noticeable thing and everyone could blind test and get it right, but it's honestly not the case.
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AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Pretty sure you copied that from somewhere. I've read that nearly word for word before
It is personal taste and there is no "this is better" because xxxx reasons. You cannot quantify it because nobody hears the same at every frequency. The transients you refer to are different yes, but you need to get to a point where it becomes noticeable, and at that volume, you'd be stupid to try. For guitar amps and such many people still use tube based because to them it's just better. Whether it's the elitism of "tube" amps or not, bassists in general prefer it. Good for them, more options won't hurt them. it just means they think they get the best sound and for a music listener, that's all I care about.
Also personal opinion, but "natural" sound is subjective to the person. Which leads us back to the personal taste thing. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but you two make it seem like it's a immediately noticeable thing and everyone could blind test and get it right, but it's honestly not the case.
Before I was so into PCs (I'm quite new to PCs to be honest compared to you chaps) I was big into amplifiers. I definitely had to refresh my memory by reading a little, but this was the kind of stuff is what I nerded out over from around 2010 to 2015. I didn't copy anything verbatim as I (for once) actually understand something.
I think it comes down to experience. The more amplifiers you listen the more attuned you become to the nuances and differences. Most musicians who start out can't tell the difference between a £2000 tube amp with mil spec capacitors and a £200 Chinese solid state amp. But given time they likely will.
AlienALX
Well-known member
I am already lining up my next project. Apparently one of the best solid state headphone amps out there is the Lehman. It costs around £750.
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/lehman...NpT_HTGLEIrAVkvMaqWO_gFuVvMncA70aAlSoEALw_wcB
That's it there. However, once again China seems to have gotten in there lmao.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2017-New-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
So yeah, that coupled with another of these valve amps would make a wicked combo
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/lehman...NpT_HTGLEIrAVkvMaqWO_gFuVvMncA70aAlSoEALw_wcB
That's it there. However, once again China seems to have gotten in there lmao.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2017-New-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
So yeah, that coupled with another of these valve amps would make a wicked combo
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
You've been bitten.
AlienALX
Well-known member
I was bitten many years ago man. I love how the internet and global trade is so easy now though. BITD if I blew one of my 18" subs I would have to order it and then wait for it to arrive on a cargo ship. It used to take about 6 weeks man.
Not ordered the Lehman yet (will do that next week) but just ordered another pre amp.
Not ordered the Lehman yet (will do that next week) but just ordered another pre amp.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
It's just a quicker way for us to go broke.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Sod it, MK2 incoming lol. I checked and I have enough walnut burr left.
And I found a large roll of mirror chrome vinyl.
Note - it has protective clear stuff on so isn't as crisp as it is when peeled.
Ordered a volume knob.
Same as before, only in chrome. I was going to use the same PSU (not running two at once) because AC-AC PSUs cost about four times that of a AC-DC. And 2 amp AC PSUs are about £50, hence why the amp kit is so cheap (£10). Any way, I did some poking and got this.
Same really heavy unit as before, for £7.80 shipped. So the entire second amp will cost me less than £20
And I found a large roll of mirror chrome vinyl.
Note - it has protective clear stuff on so isn't as crisp as it is when peeled.
Ordered a volume knob.
Same as before, only in chrome. I was going to use the same PSU (not running two at once) because AC-AC PSUs cost about four times that of a AC-DC. And 2 amp AC PSUs are about £50, hence why the amp kit is so cheap (£10). Any way, I did some poking and got this.
Same really heavy unit as before, for £7.80 shipped. So the entire second amp will cost me less than £20
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
Before I was so into PCs (I'm quite new to PCs to be honest compared to you chaps) I was big into amplifiers. I definitely had to refresh my memory by reading a little, but this was the kind of stuff is what I nerded out over from around 2010 to 2015. I didn't copy anything verbatim as I (for once) actually understand something.
I think it comes down to experience. The more amplifiers you listen the more attuned you become to the nuances and differences. Most musicians who start out can't tell the difference between a £2000 tube amp with mil spec capacitors and a £200 Chinese solid state amp. But given time they likely will.
Headphone amps and guitar amp though are different. They are aimed at different things..
Anyway, do you think tube headphone amps provide better bass at lower volume levels?
Tolemac
Active member
I have been following this thread good stuff Alien. I remember a friend of mine having a Naim Pre-amp and Power amp back in the 80's/90's with a Xerxes by Roksan turntable base and a Linn arm and cartridge and Celestion speakers it sounded so crisp. I saw him last year after 20 years and he still has it
it sounded so crisp. I saw him last year after 20 years and he still has it
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AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Yeah, I was talking more about guitar amplifiers.
Tube guitar amplifiers don't provide very good bass at lower volume levels, no. That's the biggest drawback to tubes: they require high volumes to work efficiently. I'm not sure about headphone amplifiers.
AlienALX
Well-known member
OK so after looking around yesterday I found a place that sells veneer "samples" that are more than large enough to make a top. Got a couple of faves, not ordered yet though (it's like £3.50).
These are mostly exotic woods, so some of them are super cool.
American white oak.
Bolivian ebony (one of my faves)
Zebrano negro
Which is also in the top three
White ebony
Ebony
Santos rosewood
And my current fave (and probably what I will order) Bog oak. Yes, this is a piece of oak that has sat in a bog for god knows how long, been pulled out, dried and then sliced into veneer.
I could use walnut burr again but would prefer something different this time
These are mostly exotic woods, so some of them are super cool.
American white oak.
Bolivian ebony (one of my faves)
Zebrano negro
Which is also in the top three
White ebony
Ebony
Santos rosewood
And my current fave (and probably what I will order) Bog oak. Yes, this is a piece of oak that has sat in a bog for god knows how long, been pulled out, dried and then sliced into veneer.
I could use walnut burr again but would prefer something different this time
