Are you ever surprised at how douchey people can be

[SparkleDJackson]

I just put on band of brothers cos ive never seen it complete and my brother starts spouting off "i hate war movies they arent my thing" so i said are you kidding me its practically a documentary. So then he gets all " im sorry for not appreciating all that was done in the world wars". So i am now left stunned at how much off a prick my younger broter is who only seems to care about his 3ds. Makes me wonder. Are people starting to forget or have they forgotten.

 

[dipzy]

I get that with my cousin, he's just the same, he always says "i don't care what happened years ago what does it have to do with me?"

Im left totally gobbsmacked, i think that they are starting to forget and not care how the world is how it is today and that brave people fought in wars and lost their lives to protect their country, many left their families to fight wars but very few returned.

There aint much respect for soldiers these days with younger generation i think, they seem to forget who real hero's are

 

[SparkleDJackson]

Like im only 23 but i like to think i have my head screwed on right. But when i drive home at night and see groups of 30 14year olds drinking alcohol and terrorising people on the street i just think how did we get to this. How can people get away with so much and yet expect so much to be given to them the amount of people that died so that the people to lazy to work nowadays get their disability housing job seekers allowances. The rioters all over england as an example of how far we have come

 

[lewwatt]

There aint much respect for soldiers these days with younger generation i think, they seem to forget who real hero's are

I am part of the 'younger generation' and I respect the hardships soldiers went through during WWII. I don't think the wars were a good thing or that them killing people makes them heroes though. Yes they went through incredible amounts of suffering, persevered and all in all did something I could never do but I don't think it makes them heroes.

There are no heroes or winners in war in my opinion.

 

[SparkleDJackson]

Im part of it too but even when i started secondary school 11 years ago i could still see that the majority of people just dont seem to behave right or in a proper manner. I make sure to hold the door for anyone coming to the point that i think i look a little dumb but still. I have went to walk into a burger king and the person infront slam the door into me. I guess that when simple things like manners are forgotten by the masses that it inevitable that more important things will get brushed to the side aswell. I guess i think war is a necessary evil. And there are heroes

 

[Beattie282]

Im part of it too but even when i started secondary school 11 years ago i could still see that the majority of people just dont seem to behave right or in a proper manner. I make sure to hold the door for anyone coming to the point that i think i look a little dumb but still. I have went to walk into a burger king and the person infront slam the door into me. I guess that when simple things like manners are forgotten by the masses that it inevitable that more important things will get brushed to the side aswell. I guess i think war is a necessary evil. And there are heroes

that hole door thing is really annoying am 21 my self and i like you hole the door for people following me, one of my mates used to do that with every door! id go mad at him every time but he would be like oh yea....lalala

people just done care any more its not just our generations fualt either, we get no form of structure any more when growing up like my mum and dad did for example. Schools are just a joke now since the teacher cant do anything to make the kids shut up and they find that funny.

and at that age they are going to think rebeling is the way to go, well the more dumb people would.

i resepct all soldiers who have fought in wars allies or axis they all got the same deal the goverment sent them to war.

and they are heroes mate, jst not the kind you get told to be by films and such

 

[lewwatt]

I make sure to hold the door for anyone coming to the point that i think i look a little dumb but still.

I know exactly what you mean, it is a really awkward position to be in. You don't get a thanks either to show appreciation for making yourself look like an idiot xD

and they are heroes mate, jst not the kind you get told to be by films and such

Our perception of what a hero is must differ then. While I think the values that are shown and put to the test in wartime are inspiring and to some extent heroic I don't think violence is the way to go about things, no matter what the situation.

 

[SparkleDJackson]

But if violence isnt the way to go about things if someone us being violent are you just going go allow them to run all over you or are you going to stand up. If someone goes beyond threatenin toward me you can be sure i will be more than threatening back. Its just that on a larger scale.

 

[SPS]

Yes they went through incredible amounts of suffering, persevered and all in all did something I could never do but I don't think it makes them heroes.

There are no heroes or winners in war in my opinion.

The reason you get to live how you live today is because they gave their life for yours.

Is that not a hero? I think so.

 

[SparkleDJackson]

The reason you get to live how you live today is because they gave their life for yours.

Is that not a hero? I think so.

Perfect

 

[lewwatt]

The reason you get to live how you live today is because they gave their life for yours.

Is that not a hero? I think so.

I'm not making myself clear enough, that sort of thing I get completely. I am apreciative and I do respect that they gave their lives for me, my parents and everybody I know to have a future. In that sense they are heroes. I just feel on both sides of WW2 they were like that, yes even nazi soldiers. Ok that reads worse than I want it to lol. I hate everything nazi like a normal person but I think someones views of what is right and wrong can be skewed heavily by propaganda - especially amidst a war - and that this type of propaganda can make deeds like killing people who are also fighting for a cause they truly think is right seem heroic.

I refer to the quote 'history is written by the victors' and I hope you understand my point. I think soldiers are heroic for the values they display but not for the actions they take (although intents were good).

 

[ruthless_villain]

war is just a load of double standards, something can be completely fine for one country but if another country does it they are terrorists blahblah. I dont think their are any heroes in war besides the ones who are protecting their homeland, protecting civilians as that is what a soldier does, they are meant to protect countries not blow them up.

WW2 obviously the troops saved lives because of the holocaust etc, and i have no problem with that but it was never the primary aim.

but thats off topic - i am part of the "younger generation" but dont go looting, dont go around messing about with people for a laugh or slamming doors in peoples face but i refuse to call any soldier in afghanistan or iraq a hero.

i am obviously a little bias being a muslim, but most of the big wars recently have screwed us over, WW1 = split the muslim land, WW2= give muslim land to some European jews who reckoned they had some ancient claim to the land even though their own holy book doesnt allow them to have their own state

Iraq = take all the oil, hundreds of thousands of innocent people dead.

Afghanistan = invaded because the US had to have someone to blame for 9/11.

Iran = sanctions on a state, damaging the infrastructure, 5 civilians already killed by israel and the US because they have a legitimate nuclear fuel programme

The people who caused all that dont sound like heroes to me

 

[lewwatt]

The people who caused all that dont sound like heroes to me

Woah there, you might want to be careful with your wording that could be pretty offensive to someone in the armed forces.

It's the governments and corporations causing that not the soldiers.

 

[ruthless_villain]

said it before and i will say it again - there will never be a war unless soldiers are willing to fight; the people in our armies are willing to kill and be killed without question and i will not apologize for saying that especially when most of them dont have the intellect to even question what they are doing

 

[lewwatt]

said it before and i will say it again - there will never be a war unless soldiers are willing to fight; the people in our armies are willing to kill and be killed without question and i will not apologize for saying that especially when most of them dont have the intellect to even question what they are doing

It's a bit more than they don't posess the intellect to question their actions. The expectations and pressure on these soldiers are more than enough for them to fight in a war regardless. A good example of this is during WW1 in Britain, men seen outdoors instead of being at war would be approached and given a white feather by women and called a coward - it was known to happen to people under the age of 16 as well. This coupled with propaganda stating 'enemy soldiers throw babies into the air and let them fall onto their bayonetts, they find this amusing' is an enormous amount of pressure and expectation. I have to admit even though I am strongly opposed to any war whatever the reasons this sort of thing would make me falter and go against my morals.

 

[KING_OF_SAND]

For starters, it is up to the morals of people to decide who are the good and evil. EVERYONE (everyone meaning countries) including Germans believed Nazis were evil. Exterminating 80% of Jews in Germany or 40% in total JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWISH is by no means heroic. A hero is someone who is willing to give their life to save another. Germany DID NOT believe that. The soul purpose of Germany Starting WWII was to kill the non white race, not to protect there citizens, or even die for there country, rather for themselves to protect there race.

@ Ruthless, your logic is severely flawed. "there will never be war unless solders are willing to fight" to put that statement simply is "no shit" excuse my language. It's like saying a swimming pool will only be wet if there was water. DUH but wars happen when one group of people feels the need to exterminate another. At least that's how they have started recently.

 

[lewwatt]

For starters, it is up to the morals of people to decide who are the good and evil. EVERYONE (everyone meaning countries) including Germans believed Nazis were evil. Exterminating 80% of Jews in Germany or 40% in total JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWISH is by no means heroic. A hero is someone who is willing to give their life to save another. Germany DID NOT believe that. The soul purpose of Germany Starting WWII was to kill the non white race, not to protect there citizens, or even die for there country, rather for themselves to protect there race.

Yes I think Nazism is absolute evil too but that's not 100% correct, there was more to it than wanting to just exterminate a demographic.

Also it's not just Germany that did evil things, have you seen what colonialism did - a root cause of the first world war.

Again I refer to 'history is written by the victors' because we know all about the evils of our countries' past enemies but it's not common knowledge of our own countries evils. Here's some copy-paste from Wikipedia;

"At the end of World War II, several trials of Axis war criminals took place, most famously the Nuremberg Trials. However, in Europe, these tribunals were set up under the authority of the London Charter, which only considered allegations of war crimes committed by persons who acted in the interests of the European Axis countries."

The acts allied nations done that were crimes like that Axis nations had also carried out were ignored and brushed off. It goes hand in hand with the quote I keep referring to.

One of the stand out incidents is this;

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_partisans#Finland_and_Karelia

PS: Enjoying this discussion/debate, I've already learned a bit about how the Allies took part in atrocious crimes during WW2 that are not as widely known as the Axis'.

 

[SPS]

said it before and i will say it again - there will never be a war unless soldiers are willing to fight; the people in our armies are willing to kill and be killed without question and i will not apologize for saying that especially when most of them dont have the intellect to even question what they are doing

In WW1+2 soldiers were enlisted against their own will. (conscription)

Soldiers would rather not fight. They would rather be at home with their families.

But what they are willing to do, is to put their lives on the line to protect our country.

 

[KING_OF_SAND]

Well yea, of course trials will be held for those who were or alleged to be part of Europe's enemies. War is a horrible thing and sometimes people while there acts may not be as evil were still in interest in taking out a country that stood for good. Anyone can make the debate "well Nazis also believed they stood for good," which would be the comment of a shallow minded person. Only someone who cannot identify good from evil would say something so stupid. After a war it's a countries job to get rid of it completely just like a fire fighter getting rid of the embers so another fire is not started, and after those who admitted to evil doings goes down to those who were alleged of crimes. Now it is wrong when someone innocent is put to death but to say it bluntly and in the most kindest way... "shit happens." You cannot be 100% successful in getting ONLY the guilty, but it is FAR out from "evil."

When you use Evil in such a lite manor you diminish the word for people who truly were, like Hitler. It's like saying Hitlers evil is equal to that of a trial gone bad, which is outrageous in every sense.

 

[KING_OF_SAND]

BTW my grandpa was a Nazi in WWII forced against his will because he was an engineer. He was captured weeks later on purpose by the US and is now a 100% free citizen and he LOVES the US.