TSMC to build a chip building plant in the US with Government backing

[WYP]

The US wants to rely less on Asia for the latest tech.



Read more about TSMC's plans to build a US-based chipmaking plant.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Wonder if this will make products cheaper. Depends on overall logistics I guess.

 

[Dicehunter]

Good start, I hope the US and UK/EU start following suit with other products, It's not good to be reliant on Asia for everything.

 

[Bartacus]

Umm I wonder if some people understand that TSMC stands for Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. This isn't reducing reliance on Asia, this is putting an Asian plant in the USA, LOL!

 

[Dicehunter]

Umm I wonder if some people understand that TSMC stands for Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. This isn't reducing reliance on Asia, this is putting an Asian plant in the USA, LOL!

It lowers the reliance on having to import things from Asia, That's a good thing considering how many problems come out of that continent.

 

[NeverBackDown]

It lowers the reliance on having to import things from Asia, That's a good thing considering how many problems come out of that continent.

Yeah thought this was pretty obvious.

Also brings jobs back from overseas and brings in more taxes from the workers to boost the local/State economy.

 

[Kleptobot]

Globalism is being wound back, nationalism is on the rise.

Hopefully we, as in humanity, find a happy balance and don't swing too hard towards nationalism. Both ideologies have pros and cons, but the cons of nationalism seem more violent.

 

[Bartacus]

Yeah thought this was pretty obvious.

Also brings jobs back from overseas and brings in more taxes from the workers to boost the local/State economy.

Oh I'm all for it, don't get me wrong, but I was more poking fun at Mark's wording, nothing more. I welcome our new Asian overlords, wherever they set up shop.

 

[Dicehunter]

Globalism is being wound back, nationalism is on the rise.

Hopefully we, as in humanity, find a happy balance and don't swing too hard towards nationalism. Both ideologies have pros and cons, but the cons of nationalism seem more violent.

Nationalism can be a good thing when done properly without going to extremes, Globalism is way too unstable and unpredictable.

 

[grec]

Nationalism and globalism aren't really opposing ideologies, the opposite to globalism would be protectionism, countries can be both globalist and nationalist at the same time really(As nationalism is predominantly a social policy issue that not only doesn't explicitly oppose the use of foreign exploitative labour[Including slavery and wage slavery] but in many cases may encourage it). Though of course the current US administration is an example of a government that's both nationalist and protectionist anyway.

Excessive protectionism is usually considered one of the major contributing factors to the Great Depression, and generally does more harm than good as a blanket measure, but when used sparingly and well targeted to specific industries a little bit of protectionism can still be quite a good thing(And sometimes it's necessary to save threatened industries or ensure companies aren't using exploitative measures both in terms of taxes and rights).

 

[Kleptobot]

Nationalism and globalism aren't really opposing ideologies, the opposite to globalism would be protectionism, countries can be both globalist and nationalist at the same time really(As nationalism is predominantly a social policy issue that not only doesn't explicitly oppose the use of foreign exploitative labour[Including slavery and wage slavery] but in many cases may encourage it). Though of course the current US administration is an example of a government that's both nationalist and protectionist anyway.

Of course, excessive protectionism is usually considered one of the major contributing factors to the Great Depression, but when used sparingly and well targeted to specific industries a little bit of protectionism can still be quite a good thing(And sometimes it's necessary to save threatened industries or ensure companies aren't using exploitative measures both in terms of taxes and rights).

Thanks, you are correct. And after reading a little about protectionism, i'm now an expert , this could be classified as a step towards protectionism.

 

[m2geek]

It lowers the reliance on having to import things from Asia, That's a good thing considering how many problems come out of that continent.

I think you'll find a majority of the worlds issues with instability and inequality are directly linked to America's need to be "at war" with someone/something at all times, basically - America is Karen.

 

[WYP]

TBH, this won't bring much new tax money to the US. It needs to be worth TSMC's while to do this, and America can't just cut them off.

How many American companies would break down without TSMC? Apple, AMD, Nvidia, the list goes on and on. TSMC will be getting tax cuts and possible direct investment.

The irony is that America could have given GlobalFoundries the funding/assistance they needed to bring their 7nm online. That way the would have a top tier American foundry. Now they need to rely on Taiwan (TSMC) and Korea (Samsung), and invest in foreign-owned companies.

 

[grec]

TBH, this won't bring much new tax money to the US. It needs to be worth TSMC's while to do this, and America can't just cut them off.

How many American companies would break down without TSMC? Apple, AMD, Nvidia, the list goes on and on. TSMC will be getting tax cuts and possible direct investment.

The irony is that America could have given GlobalFoundries the funding/assistance they needed to bring their 7nm online. That way the would have a top tier American foundry. Now they need to rely on Taiwan (TSMC) and Korea (Samsung), and invest in foreign-owned companies.

Yeah this is true, though of course I'm sure this is partly motivated by the (imo quite illogical) trade war with China, given Taiwan is of course an "economic enemy" of China much like the US positions itself to be(For context, Taiwan is where the historical pre-revolution Chinese government exiled to and for many years the country existed with the intent of "re-taking" China back from its post-revolution governing party, they are much more amiable to each other now but the history cannot be ignored). Similar history of course with South Korea, the American-backed government of the Korean war, which was in opposition to the then Chinese backed North Korean govt, and it could still be argued South Korea is somewhat an American puppet state, at least economically. A potential rise of Chinese fabs is probably deemed to be a much greater threat basically.

The USA has always been in the habit of adopting this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach to foreign policy, even when it means giving power and money to people who arnt exactly their allies. (ISIS for example originally formed out of several groups the US(& allies) had previously heavily armed and funded as so called "moderate rebels", as many of these groups were also previously part of the US-backed Free Syrian Army against the current Syrian govt.)

 

[Avet]

The American government wants a chip factory on US soil to make chips for the military. That is the main reason. The factory will be run by TSMC but every step of the process will be heavily monitored by the US government. They will probably make some consumer chips.

US government/military contracts can be quite lucrative so TMSC has nothing to lose.

 

[NeverBackDown]

TBH, this won't bring much new tax money to the US. It needs to be worth TSMC's while to do this, and America can't just cut them off.

How many American companies would break down without TSMC? Apple, AMD, Nvidia, the list goes on and on. TSMC will be getting tax cuts and possible direct investment.

The irony is that America could have given GlobalFoundries the funding/assistance they needed to bring their 7nm online. That way the would have a top tier American foundry. Now they need to rely on Taiwan (TSMC) and Korea (Samsung), and invest in foreign-owned companies.

It most definitely will bring in a lot of taxes. Even if they get tax cuts it will not be for a long time. Only upto a certain point of revenue totaling X amount.

It's also not that ironic. Getting GF upto speed in technology would take longer and not have guaranteed results (see Intel 10nm) than getting an outside company to just build a new facility. It would be a smarter long term goal sure but it's already a multi year business to build a foundry anyway.

 

[WYP]

It most definitely will bring in a lot of taxes. Even if they get tax cuts it will not be for a long time. Only upto a certain point of revenue totaling X amount.

It's also not that ironic. Getting GF upto speed in technology would take longer and not have guaranteed results (see Intel 10nm) than getting an outside company to just build a new facility. It would be a smarter long term goal sure but it's already a multi year business to build a foundry anyway.

At this point, yes, but back in 2018, before they dropped 7nm, they were making good progress. The precise problem with GF was a lack of investment. Now they are still on 12nm and are aiming to service more niche areas of the market that TSMC aren't focusing on.

The Foundry business is insanely expensive, and Globalfoundries didn't have the money they needed to spin up 7nm fabs. The Foundry business is a huge money pit, but thankfully for TSMC, they have remained on top to always secure a lot of customers for its latest nodes, and market forces aren't forcing them to decrease wafer prices.

A lot of AMD's Zen and Zen + CPUs were built on US soil, as are AMD's X570 chipsets and Zen 2 IO chiplets. How long will it be before AMD completely abandons GF?

 

[NeverBackDown]

No point in looking backwards. Hindsight is 20/20. Can only work with the present and the fastest way to get chips developed is for TSMC and that's pretty much the only reason for it to be could considered. Government wants short term results not long term and this is the only route. I'm not defending their choice it just is what it is. I'd prefer they put money into GF but considering how much money we've lost due to over reaction of COVID-19 it's not entirely likely investing billions on R&D for a foundry is on the top of everyone's mind

 

[NeverBackDown]

Intel has expressed interest to get a US foundry built in partnership with the government.Also seems the US is looking into helping Samsung start a Foundry in Austin, Texas. Samsung declined to comment but I could see it happening. They already have one there so the rumour could mean for an expansion of that foundry.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...bout-building-u-s-factories-wsj-idUSKBN22M0D0

Also should note that TSMC already has a foundry in the US in Camas, Washington. So adding another isn't exactly anything new. But it should be Intel if anything to keep the American owned companies funded. Or even GF as talked about earlier