Should i lap my cpu & cooler
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Wellcomef3-a
New member
I apologize for the late reply guys but I spoke to someone recently who lapped the IHS off of his A64 CPU and the temps. decreased to something like 8 degrees C less! Some of you may know that the IHS is nickel plated, and underneath that is pure copper and there is your answer why the temps. increased so drastically for the better.
If I can find the email he sent me in which he decribes his accomplishment I will edit this post to include it.
If you intend to keep the chip then I would certainly give it a try! Another thing you could do is to take "before" and "after" lapping shots of the cpu so that when you come to sell it the prospective buyer(s) can see just exactly what it is they're buying. It's not a guarantee or foolproof method I know, but it is better than trying to sell an unmarked chip.
As for the heat sink, depending on brand/model, I always lap the base - no exceptions! That goes for the North Bridge hs too and those found on the NF4 DFI Lanparty range which I swapped out for the Evercool VC-RE.
There are those heat sinks which I will not touch for love or money and leave well alone. I am talking about the Swifttech range of heat-sinks and CPU/GPU blocks which are quite impossible to better by lapping by hand.
If I can find the email he sent me in which he decribes his accomplishment I will edit this post to include it.
If you intend to keep the chip then I would certainly give it a try! Another thing you could do is to take "before" and "after" lapping shots of the cpu so that when you come to sell it the prospective buyer(s) can see just exactly what it is they're buying. It's not a guarantee or foolproof method I know, but it is better than trying to sell an unmarked chip.
As for the heat sink, depending on brand/model, I always lap the base - no exceptions! That goes for the North Bridge hs too and those found on the NF4 DFI Lanparty range which I swapped out for the Evercool VC-RE.
There are those heat sinks which I will not touch for love or money and leave well alone. I am talking about the Swifttech range of heat-sinks and CPU/GPU blocks which are quite impossible to better by lapping by hand.
Wellcomef3-a
New member
You are right about the warranty stocky but the other point you made about the lower cpu resell value is open to debate. Of course it all boils down to the honesty of the chip vendor, let's say for example he took photos of the processors OPN and stepping code and CPU-Z screenshot before lapping the IHS. If you knew the vendor to be honest and he could provide supporting evidence that the lapped cpu was in fact the very same one in the photos that he previously took, then don't you think the processor would be worth at least the same price if not more due to the cooler temps it runs at?
Or is warranty the overriding factor in your book?
Hmmm...when all is said and done there are far too many variables that can be thrown in the pot and which there is no right or wrong answer/opinion for everyone to agree on. C'est la vie! LOL
Or is warranty the overriding factor in your book?
Hmmm...when all is said and done there are far too many variables that can be thrown in the pot and which there is no right or wrong answer/opinion for everyone to agree on. C'est la vie! LOL
maverik-sg1
New member
Well we are extreme prometeia - I say do it!!
But do it at the risk that our first hand experience tells us the following:
You will see some temp drops
The drops are probably not enough to improve your overclock if you are only cooling on air or water#
LAPPING THE IHS DOES effect the resale value of the CPU - unless of course you prove to have a golden sample CPU that clocks better than anything anyone has ever seen before.
A defunkt warranty is a massive resale factor.
Cheers
Mav
But do it at the risk that our first hand experience tells us the following:
You will see some temp drops
The drops are probably not enough to improve your overclock if you are only cooling on air or water#
LAPPING THE IHS DOES effect the resale value of the CPU - unless of course you prove to have a golden sample CPU that clocks better than anything anyone has ever seen before.
A defunkt warranty is a massive resale factor.
Cheers
Mav
Wellcomef3-a
New member
Regarding Mavs statement that a defunkt warranty is a massive resale factor there is a way around this: simply wait until the warranty runs out before lapping it!
How long are warranties on cpus nowadays? Of course if you overclock the chip then you have voided the warranty anyway so what's the big deal?
The temperature gains I gave in my earlier post were achieved in a water cooling rig and I feel quite confident that similar type results could be achieved in an air cooled set-up. Maybe not -8 degrees C less but at least in the region of at least -3 degrees C.
I hope this clears the matter up for you!
How long are warranties on cpus nowadays? Of course if you overclock the chip then you have voided the warranty anyway so what's the big deal?
The temperature gains I gave in my earlier post were achieved in a water cooling rig and I feel quite confident that similar type results could be achieved in an air cooled set-up. Maybe not -8 degrees C less but at least in the region of at least -3 degrees C.
I hope this clears the matter up for you!
Wellcomef3-a
New member
Master_G, those pre-conditions are exactly what would convince me that lapping is a good idea. No, not a good idea but a pre-requisite!
I would also lap anything that had a visible machining finish on it, such as on the base of some heat-sinks the machining marks made by the tool/cutter are very visible and detract from the heat sinks purpose.
When lapping any surface, it is not only flatness that counts - finish is very important too.
I would also lap anything that had a visible machining finish on it, such as on the base of some heat-sinks the machining marks made by the tool/cutter are very visible and detract from the heat sinks purpose.
When lapping any surface, it is not only flatness that counts - finish is very important too.
Highland3r
New member
name='peteski' said:Master_G, those pre-conditions are exactly what would convince me that lapping is a good idea. No, not a good idea but a pre-requisite!
I would also lap anything that had a visible machining finish on it, such as on the base of some heat-sinks the machining marks made by the tool/cutter are very visible and detract from the heat sinks purpose.
When lapping any surface, it is not only flatness that counts - finish is very important too.
Flatness its imo the most important. Some machining marks are ok, especially if you can't feel them with your finger nail (ie run your nail over if, if you "feel" the ridges then lapping may help). Even then the temp difference isn't going to gain you a huge amount.
Would certainly rather have a warranty and resale potential than lap a CPU for what are usually minimal gains.
I'm always wary of lapping things, mostly due to the fact it's hard to get a totally flat finish.
name='peteski' said:When lapping any surface, it is not only flatness that counts - finish is very important too.
Shiny doesnt make any measureable difference to heat transfer, it just makes us feel better about the heatsink. On paper, shiny will make heat transfer worse as heat will be reflected back
As long as its flat to an acceptable level, its all that matters name='peteski' said:When lapping any surface, it is not only flatness that counts - finish is very important too.
As the others have said, that is plain wrong, it is ONLY flatness that counts. That is why if a company laps their own heatsinks to a certain degree of flatness using a machine, there is no point in you trying to improve it, as hand lapping can never get close to the work for a machine.
You may be able to get it to look nice and shiny and reflective, but that doesnt mean anything in regards to heat transfer, only the flatness matters as the flatter it is, the better contact you get and so the better temps you get.
G
Wellcomef3-a
New member
name='Master_G' said:
I am a fully skilled apprentice trained toolmaker and have spent years upon years machining all kinds of materials and therefore I am qualified to comment on this matter.
It is not flatness that matters the most, it is a combination of flatness and finish. And when I say finish I am not referring to a shiny surface.
I beg to differ here and I will tell you for why. You say that it is ONLY flatness that counts, well imagine for a minute the teeth on a wood saw. If you cut a section through a machined heat sink and magnified the machined surface you would see more or less the same thing: peaks and troughs (made by the cutting tool). The machine tool may cut the surface flat but in no way can it remove the air-filled troughs even if you passed the cutting tool back and forth over the work surface numerous times. Of course the straight edge would lie flat but the air gaps which prevent good heat exchange are ever present! That is why it is preferable to lap heat sinks to increase contact between cpu and heat sink and I never made any comment about trying to improve on an already lapped surface.
Here is some further reading on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapping
This should clear up the matter once and for all! LOL
