Dicehunter
Resident Newb
£7 is a bargain, May get myself some and with 1gram it should server maybe 3-4 applications, I really can't recommend any other TIM products than Thermal Grizzly anymore, Their stuff is epic!
Overclocker Delids AMD AM4 CPU
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£7 is a bargain, May get myself some and with 1gram it should server maybe 3-4 applications, I really can't recommend any other TIM products than Thermal Grizzly anymore, Their stuff is epic!
I know we are derailing the topic a little now, but do you know how it fairs against Cool lab? I think you have used that before right?
I dont usually accept online results for liquid metal tim because i find they are never the same results I get when I compared pro to ultra to arctic etc.
oh and 1gram will serve at least double that. You should be spreading the metal so incredibly thin you will doubt yourself. My cool lap ultra has served me for 3years now, on both GPUs and CPU (ihs and die)
Dicehunter
Resident Newb
I've used both CL and Thermal Grizzly's Conductonaut in my server rig and Thermal Grizzly's stuff wins by about 1-2'c.
I don't personally use it in my main rig as I'm paranoid it will somehow travel and short circuit something ^_^
Just use clear nail polish on the die chips if you have delidded it. Totally harmless, copes with the high temps too and protects from any overlap (although you shouldnt be using that much if it gets to that.
But I just ordered some to test out
Admit no. But they did. The problem was they went from solder to tim and the difference was huge, quite easy to see if you pay attention. /end
Back on topic.
I'm actually quite excited for news on Zen. At least it hasn't been overhyped much so expectations seem to be quite reasonable.
Supports PCIe 3.0, up to 24 lanes
Supports up to 4 modules of DDR4, up to speeds of 3200 MHz (about time)
Soldered IHS
three-tier cache (this one seems very interesting)
I'm actually quite excited for news on Zen. At least it hasn't been overhyped much so expectations seem to be quite reasonable.
Supports PCIe 3.0, up to 24 lanes
Supports up to 4 modules of DDR4, up to speeds of 3200 MHz (about time)
Soldered IHS
three-tier cache (this one seems very interesting)
nashathedog
New member
They price there cpu's lower because they do not provide similar performance not because there doing us a good turn, Rest assured that when Zen releases and matches Intel performance they'll soon shoot up in price.
I'm praying they do not price me out of the game, I'm hoping to replace my 4790k with the Zen flagship but the fact that they mention it in the same lite as Intel's e chips has me worried about what it will actually cost. With both Zen and Vega releasing in the first half or 2017 it's gonna be a costly time.
This is a rather stupid comment.
The pictures clearly show one of two things.
1). The article is as described, and the TIM is a LM, and not solder.
2). This is a hoax, and dude was applying CLP himself to make it look as if AMD is using a LM.
Yes, thermal cycling causes cracks and chip failure when small chips are soldered.
Solder does not apply with a cotton swab. CLP and other Ga-based TIM that are non-pasty do.
We also see what appears to be LET (Liquid Electric Tape) around the row of surface mount components closest to the die. This means that either AMD put it there, or dude did. This also points directly to the use of a LM as the TIM, in that this is a necessary step. I personally used clear nail polish on my 4790K, but either method works to protect the FIVR on intel chips
Your comment shows that honestly, you don't understand the subject matter fully, even though you understand a part of it, and you are showing a lack of attention to detail, while making comments that you are an expert and being rude about it "I don't know how many times..."...
The normal practice here is to clean up the black IHS glue before applying anything, but if you were trying to do a hoax, that would make it look more hoax-like. The question here is if there is video of the dude doing this. The pictures look quite well done. I am fairly certain that anyone taking the time to take such nice pictures would also have done video.
Was the picture with a swab him demonstrating that it is a LM, or was it a picture of him applying LM?
My question on this is pretty valid, as I would like to know how they automated the application of the TIM. This stuff is pretty hard to actually get past the oxide layer and begin the wetting of the Si. Once it wets, things go a lot easier, but doing the initial wetting takes a bit of labor. Also, this is pretty detailed, and requires that all balls be kept on the die. Granted, that one picture shows it all sludged off the die, but was that done during delidding or manufacture?
In a way, it's like soldering to an aluminum chassis (anyone here ever repair old radios or televisions or build anything using such a chassis?). Because of the oxidation layer that forms, you have to scrape the iron and solder ball to literally get under the oxidation layer to wet the aluminum. Initially getting Ga-based TIM to wet to Si is a similar thing, just without the heat.
It could be possible in a heated Hydrogen atmosphere that they could apply without any difficulty. I'm just guessing here, but Hydrogen really cleans up metals. Does it do the same with Si?
If they have perfected an automated manufacturing process to apply Ga-based TIM in liquid (not pasty) form, they have a serious cash cow there, and truth be told, I want to invest in the process because it is the future.
The pictures clearly show that this isn't solder.
(To those wondering about the question of it being a hoax, a hoax would benefit intel by making people think that they didn't have to delid, and thus leaving a thermal barrier in place until someone got around to proving a hoax. Face it, this is cutthroat between such companies).
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Well, the rumor at this point is somewhere around $300ish (USD) for the 8-core. How true that is, only time will tell.
Actually, if the rumor is true, Intel might have to lower their prices.
I've been planning to go from this i7-4790K to a Skylake-E ever since I built this, but I'm in the "wait and see" mode for now. Although Skylake-E brings some desirable stuff to the table, AMD might have a serious price edge here.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Well, with any luck we get competition in the CPU market again, and maybe Intel will do what AMD seems to be doing and start using a Gallium-based TIM under the IHS on the 115x chips thus ridding the world of the need to delid once and for all.
AlienALX
Well-known member
It won't be $300 competition. Try doubling that at least. If AMD have a product that really is faster than Broadwell E you can absolutely bet they will not give it away free or cheap.
Lisa Su said right at the beginning when they hired Keller "It won't be cheap".
The original FX chips were not cheap. CheapER than the Intel Extremes oh yes, but not cheap. IIRC $600 or so and AMD were actually making a loss on them. That is why they folded and went into the budget sector.
Lisa Su said right at the beginning when they hired Keller "It won't be cheap".
The original FX chips were not cheap. CheapER than the Intel Extremes oh yes, but not cheap. IIRC $600 or so and AMD were actually making a loss on them. That is why they folded and went into the budget sector.
Yes, they do it to save money - and as part of their environmental friendliness initiatives.
And, no, the die is not so fragile that it will crack when heated for soldering. How do you think it gets attached to the package?
Intel stopped using pins on their CPUs - pins had to be soldered on.... now they don't. After that someone realized that they could save $0.50 in material (indium is a bit expensive) and $0.004 in electricity by not using solder. They would only need to bake the chip for a long enough period of time to attach the die and contact pads to the package. Previously they would spend much longer to allow the heat to soak through the IHS and package to ensure everything was done in as few bakes as possible.
Now they can just throw on any old cheap TIM and call it a day - a process, BTW, which is MORE dangerous for the die as higher clamping pressures must be used. Soldering has almost no pressure involved.
slyztercore90
New member
just want to ask you...if AMD with low budged RnD than Intel that have so so much RnD can solder their IHS without break it. Why high end tech company like Intel that have bilion of RnD cant solder their IHS?
AlienALX
Well-known member
It depends. AMD's Ryzen dies are big, for example. So 1700 and 1600 have rather large dies. It's when you cut those dies up (for example an I3 or I5) that they become very small.
Intel swear up and down they do it because they can't solder the dies.
They also say that they use the paste they do because it lasts. IE - 10 years or more.
What is the truth? no one really knows. It has been validated that you can not solder small dies, so I guess when Ryzen 3 comes along we will finally get our answer.
Every one replaces the TIM with whatever TIM they choose (liquid pro, grizly or whatever they are called) but they have no proof of actually how long those pastes will last. Obviously you would need to test them, and obviously no one has any hard data.
I would love to be able to say Intel do it to be even more obnoxious and tight than they already are but I do understand the counter argument. And let's face it, the type of people delidding are hardly going to leave it be under a cooler for 5 years to find out are they?
