My cooking pot!

[RadeonHDx]

Before I start this thread I just want to say that I have been inactive for the last little while as I kind of lost interest in PC's for a while and this thread is really just to see if I want to start spending some more time on the forum.

Last night I got bored of just playing countless hours gaming with a noisy setup mostly caused by the noise of my fans. This got me thinking about a video I saw a while ago where a pair of Eastern Europeans (Russia, maybe?) had put their watercooling loop in a bucket of ice and salt and were getting incredibly low temperatures with their fluid in the loop at -11C! Last night I dug the video up from YouTube and shortly after put a tub of water in the freezer.



By the end of last night I had everything sorted for my test.

At first I started with a small tub of ice water and put my rad from my H60 in it. The rad was only half submerged but the effects truly blew me away!



The temps were good but nothing special and I knew that I would either need to constantly fill the tub with ice, buy a peltier and think of a way to mount it to cool the water or I could get a bigger pan and add ice when appropriate.

I decided to go with option 3 although option 2 of the peltier is still a possibility so i bought a cheap £3.50 one off of ebay.



This was the result and opposed to what I was expecting the 'Cooking Pot' keeps the system around 65C after an hour of prime95! But in games only hovers around 45C and in a regular environment of web browsing sits at below ambient temperature at about 10C!




After 15 minutes of Prime95



After 30 minutes



After 45 minutes



And finally after an hour



As you can see the temps aren't actually bad considering this is under 100% load and is just a worst case scenario and would never even come close to this in real life situations.

Now is where I ask what I can do next using a peltier... As I said earlier I have ordered a 72w peltier which I intend to run at 12v off of molex and I have my old air cooler which I'll be using for my cooling of the hotside, other than this I have no idea what to do or how to use the peltier. If any one has any suggestions as to what I could use it for or how I could use it.

Thanks for reading, guys!

 

[Remmy]

Would it be possible for you to watercool the hot side of the TEC? The only potential problem I could imagine is trying to ensure good thermal contact between the two surfaces. I've always wanted to experiment with one of these things

 

[RadeonHDx]

That's exactly what I was thinking but I was scared by the people who said that I could fry my chip if the TEC suddenly dies or something. I think to combat the good thermal contact you could just use thermal paste however I may be wrong as I'm not sure how well it would work in contact with a ceramic plate. And if you have a spare rig or some spare parts that you don't particularly mind losing then you'll be fine because a TEC is only about £2!

EDIT: Aswell as this when the TEC is running I'm sure I will be having problems with condensation. I'm not really aware of any 24/7 safe waterproofing method other than using something like neverwet which is still controversial is the exotic cooling community.

 

[Xrqute]

That's exactly what I was thinking but I was scared by the people who said that I could fry my chip if the TEC suddenly dies or something. I think to combat the good thermal contact you could just use thermal paste however I may be wrong as I'm not sure how well it would work in contact with a ceramic plate. And if you have a spare rig or some spare parts that you don't particularly mind losing then you'll be fine because a TEC is only about £2!

EDIT: Aswell as this when the TEC is running I'm sure I will be having problems with condensation. I'm not really aware of any 24/7 safe waterproofing method other than using something like neverwet which is still controversial is the exotic cooling community.

What the hell is a Hotside? And a TEC?

Generally to much thermal paste is bad.maybe thermal pads would a better option?

Oh and I do love that instead of becoming a victim of boredom you decided to get experimental!

 

[RadeonHDx]

What the hell is a Hotside? And a TEC?

Generally to much thermal paste is bad.maybe thermal pads would a better option?

Oh and I do love that instead of becoming a victim of boredom you decided to get experimental!

A TEC is a peltier and it has 2 sides, a hot side and a cold side.

It is a solid-state thermoelectric heat pump; Transfers heat from one side of the device to the other; If electric energy is applied, one side will heat up the other one will get cold If heat is applied unto one side and cold to the other side, electric energy will be generated; By reversing the applied current's polarity, the temperatures will also reverse.

I'm not totally sure what you mean by too much thermal paste? I was intending to use a pretty average amount of thermal paste and spreading it so that it covers the full face of the peltier for the most efficient use of the peltier and its functions.

Oh and I do love that instead of becoming a victim of boredom you decided to get experimental!

Well it was this or rebuild my rig for no reason, having a big pot of water next to your pride and joy (no matter how mediocre the hardware actually is ) is actually quite terrifying ;D

 

[Wraith]

What the hell is a Hotside? And a TEC?

Generally to much thermal paste is bad.maybe thermal pads would a better option?

Oh and I do love that instead of becoming a victim of boredom you decided to get experimental!

TEC or Thermo Electric Cooling is a very exotic method of cooling electronics, but it also comes with it's own inherent risks as it causes moisture to accumulate near the die. You can buy what is known as a Peltier module..

hope that sheds some light on the matter.

Good to have you back RadeonHDx

 

[RadeonHDx]

TEC or Thermo Electric Cooling is a very exotic method of cooling electronics, but it also comes with it's own inherent risks as it causes moisture to accumulate near the die.

This was something I hadn't read about happening and certainly hadn't thought about myself, although now if I think about it that makes a lot of sense.

Have you got any suggestions as to how I could possibly go about water proofing my socket or board? I saw this earlier and thought it looked like a good idea however I'm not sure if it would work too well because I can see atleast 1 area where there are exposed points next to the socket.

 

[Wraith]

I think you've already mentioned Neverwet, but the only other thing I can think of would be to use LN2 Putty and just go nuts with it.

Or add in a separate block into your loop

 

[RadeonHDx]

I should probably show you the pictures I was on about in the last post .

I was also wondering if I would need to put as much on as if I was doing something like DICE or LN2. For example, would I need to put some putty of the back of the socket? I would I be able to spray the CPU socket with neverwet or some kind of grease?

 

[Xrqute]

TEC or Thermo Electric Cooling is a very exotic method of cooling electronics, but it also comes with it's own inherent risks as it causes moisture to accumulate near the die. You can buy what is known as a Peltier module..

hope that sheds some light on the matter.

Good to have you back RadeonHDx

In no way being an expert on the subject but it sounds somewhat similar to a phase changer.

Am I thinking along the right lines?

Gotta say this stuff is pretty cool I like learning about some of the more obscure approaches other enthusiasts experiment with.

And thanks the diagrams are quite informative

This was something I hadn't read about happening and certainly hadn't thought about myself, although now if I think about it that makes a lot of sense.

Have you got any suggestions as to how I could possibly go about water proofing my socket or board? I saw this earlier and thought it looked like a good idea however I'm not sure if it would work too well because I can see atleast 1 area where there are exposed points next to the socket.

Obviously you wouldn't want this directly on your socket well at very least the contacts for the pins. But would you be able to use some sort of clear lacker as waterproofing. At very least it would work well in the PCB around the socket and it would probably be fine on the surrounding components that don't suffer from heat issues.

 

[RadeonHDx]

Or add in a separate block into your loop

Unfortunately I'm using a H60 however I could rip out the tubing and just set it up as a custom loop as I don't really mind that because it only cost me £35 .

In no way being an expert on the subject but it sounds somewhat similar to a phase changer.

Am I thinking along the right lines?

Gotta say this stuff is pretty cool I like learning about some of the more obscure approaches other enthusiasts experiment with.

I'm not actually too sure other than they're both in the same kind of region of extreme cooling.

 

[Xrqute]

I know a phase change suffers from the same condensation issues.

I'll look up the particulars one sec.

Also I made a few edits to my last post you may not of seen.

 

[RadeonHDx]

I'm sure that using lacquer would actually work well I would have thought and I know that someone here on the forum (really sorry, it was a while since I've been on) has spray painted a full mobo in white paint and not even had any problems with heat!

 

[Xrqute]

I couldn't find details on how a phase changer works exactly but I did find instruction on how the recommend you insulate your board. Hopefully they are some help.












Phase change cooling is an interesting concept -- A phase change is a change of the state of matter, like water to steam (or ice), or amorphous (non-crystalline) to crystalline, or vice versa. But how can this change of state be used for cooling, you might ask.

Vaporization requires the input of heat energy. Our bodies use this as a mechanism to remove excess heat from ourselves. We sweat, and its evaporation requires heat input, i.e. the excess heat from ourselves.

Diagram showing the three states of a matter


The Prometeia use the evaporation of Freon, and more specifically Freon r134a, to remove heat from the processor, where the Freon is condensed in the condenser in a process, which releases heat energy.


There are four steps in the cooling cycle of a Freon compressor based solution -- compressor, condenser, capillary tube, and finally the evaporator that sits on top of the processor.

The four-step cooling cycle

What actually happens is that the gaseous Freon is sucked from the evaporator, into the compressor. The compressor increase the pressure to the condensation pressure of Freon, and the phasechange takes place –- the Freon changes state from gas to liquid.

The condenser, an inline radiator, gets rid of the heat generated by the evaporator and during the compression of the Freon. By now, the Freon is completely liquefied.

The capillary tube is a small diameter copper tube acting as a valve to lower the pressure. This capillary tube is important for the refrigerant to evaporate at such low temperatures.

When the refrigerant has passed through the capillary tube, it reaches the evaporator. The pressurized liquid expands inside the evaporator and changes state from liquid to gas. Now, remember what I said about vaporization requiring input of heat. The vaporization process inside the evaporator “consumes” the energy from the processor, and the processor is cooled down.
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Peltier Cooling- to much info to link

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/peltiercoolers/

 

[RadeonHDx]

Thanks for all the info! I'm going to start off by messing around with the peltier just playing and seeing if it will freeze water and how much heat/cold it creates as I have one ordered and scheduled to be arriving tomorrow. I'll first try with an old 755 system that just barely still runs and experiment with temperatures and voltages to see what makes it cold but not too cold so that it creates loads of condensation.

I was also wondering if I could just use something so simple as blu-tac to insulate the mobo and possibly just make the whole of the block and socket area completely insulated from the rest of the board.

 

[Xrqute]

Thanks for all the info! I'm going to start off by messing around with the peltier just playing and seeing if it will freeze water and how much heat/cold it creates as I have one ordered and scheduled to be arriving tomorrow. I'll first try with an old 755 system that just barely still runs and experiment with temperatures and voltages to see what makes it cold but not too cold so that it creates loads of condensation.

I was also wondering if I could just use something so simple as blu-tac to insulate the mobo and possibly just make the whole of the block and socket area completely insulated from the rest of the board.

Well blu-tac is puttyish..... But i don't know how it'll stand up 1. to the cold 2. the constant water.

you seem like the type who likes to experiment, So test the blu-tac first soak it the freeze it rinse repeat half a dozen times and see what sort of condition its in. i think it would completely lose its adhesive properties and maybe go crumbly. but try it and report back ill be interested to see your results.

 

[RadeonHDx]

Ill get some blu-tac, a bowl and make a little pool of water and make the blu-tac as a kind of barrier to simulate ho well it will prevent leakage from around the socket and report back with my results later .

 

[Wraith]

You might want to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EWJf0VlFkk

 

[RadeonHDx]

You might want to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EWJf0VlFkk

I had actually seen this video already which was where I got the idea of putting grease around the socket but he didn't really provide any sort of resolution to the problem of the condensation forming. In addition to this I have noticed that next to noone has a peltier in a normally orientated case meaning that I will most likely have to either buy a new case, run my rig on the desk again (would rather not tbh) or find a permanent solution to the condensation problem.

An idea that I have had recently is that I could just use some grease or neverwet to isolate the socket and then build a wall of silicone around the socket area which will force the peltier aswell as the H60 to be permenantly attached to my motherboard with my 8320 underneath!