experiments in water cooling a mach
- Thread starter bazx
- Start date
the mod done we just had time to vac and gas the unit today
with 402a
tomorrow we will start to tune the unit under load on a 6800
parts:
5 foot of 1/2 with 6 foot of 1/4 coiled HX
high pressure read point
1m suction return
0.031 cap
Little devil chilly type evap
danfoss high pressure cut off KP 5 (not fitted yet) used to shut unit down if water cooling pump fails
R402a
mounting brackets still to be made to support the HX
and insulate the pipe work
with 402a
tomorrow we will start to tune the unit under load on a 6800
parts:
5 foot of 1/2 with 6 foot of 1/4 coiled HX
high pressure read point
1m suction return
0.031 cap
Little devil chilly type evap
danfoss high pressure cut off KP 5 (not fitted yet) used to shut unit down if water cooling pump fails
R402a
mounting brackets still to be made to support the HX
and insulate the pipe work
water cooling being used in these tests is the same as i used in cascade 5 and 4
water barrel and pond pump
this would not be the final solution for the water cooling but will work well for the these
experiments
more on that here
http://www.extremeprometeia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7029
water barrel and pond pump
this would not be the final solution for the water cooling but will work well for the these
experiments
more on that here
http://www.extremeprometeia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7029
Nice one baz you got it posted up, i must admit baz done most of the work and i just observed, but i was truly amassed at how well this works, i cant say for loaded pressures but the unloaded pressure is far better than my twin condenser run unit using the same compressor.
I was totally blown away by the amount or should i say lake of heat generated by the compressor and feed line, this seams to have a big impact on not just cooling the compressed refrigerant, but also the cooling tracks back to the compressor keeping this cool as well.
will look forward to seeing loaded results mate and what a pleasure it was working with you today.
sacha
I was totally blown away by the amount or should i say lake of heat generated by the compressor and feed line, this seams to have a big impact on not just cooling the compressed refrigerant, but also the cooling tracks back to the compressor keeping this cool as well.
will look forward to seeing loaded results mate and what a pleasure it was working with you today.
sacha
T
Thickbrit
Guest
Another interesting experiment guys.Excellent work on that heat exchanger too.
some results
well so far things seem to be working ok
first test set
cap tube 0.031 @ 2.80m
6800@1.7v
temps in window @ 4500mhz -51/52
high pressure rock solid @ 13bar
These are the goals of this mod :
Lower pressures
Much better condensing
Consistent pressures (not affected too much by increase in ambient (Hot Day))
Better refrigerant
Improved load temp
well so far things seem to be working ok
first test set
cap tube 0.031 @ 2.80m
6800@1.7v
temps in window @ 4500mhz -51/52
high pressure rock solid @ 13bar
These are the goals of this mod :
Lower pressures
Much better condensing
Consistent pressures (not affected too much by increase in ambient (Hot Day))
Better refrigerant
Improved load temp
larger image here
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/load/mach/DSC00905.JPG
larger image here
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/load/mach/mach.JPG
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/load/mach/DSC00905.JPG
larger image here
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/load/mach/mach.JPG
some small movies of the tests with the 32m
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/load/movies/
all images taken
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/
i will have a Q6600 for testing soon
but for now want to try and improve the temps some before i move on to the quad
the 2.8m of 0.031 was just a jump off point for the tunning but seems to worked out well
i will get some K probs on the hx tomorrow so we can look at the temps there
as well
the high pressure did not move up or down thro out the tests it just sat there at 13 bar
the 32m loaded temps stayed at -46 with the probe T1 taped to the suction return about 6mm from the evap
the other reading is from a prob taped to the out side of the evap T2
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/load/movies/
all images taken
http://www.net7.info/1/watercooledmach/
i will have a Q6600 for testing soon
but for now want to try and improve the temps some before i move on to the quad
the 2.8m of 0.031 was just a jump off point for the tunning but seems to worked out well
i will get some K probs on the hx tomorrow so we can look at the temps there
as well
the high pressure did not move up or down thro out the tests it just sat there at 13 bar
the 32m loaded temps stayed at -46 with the probe T1 taped to the suction return about 6mm from the evap
the other reading is from a prob taped to the out side of the evap T2
WoW baz it has worked out better than i thought, there is know more need for these special evaps anymore, this has proved a point in that the problem has been with the cooling of the evaperator all the time, of which we both thought.
well done again mate, i think as you said you could get some better temps out of this unit with larger loads but altering the cap tube.
This is just great though mate this unit is so quite it is quiter than the best water setup all you can here is the slight hum of the little NL11, quite and very powerfull looks like the S/S has made a come back for quad core benching.
Sacha
well done again mate, i think as you said you could get some better temps out of this unit with larger loads but altering the cap tube.
This is just great though mate this unit is so quite it is quiter than the best water setup all you can here is the slight hum of the little NL11, quite and very powerfull looks like the S/S has made a come back for quad core benching.
Sacha
name='K404' said:Now you've had a chance to try the unit out, how do pressures, condenser temps et al compare to a standard fan-cooled setup?
Well put it this way, i have seen some of Grays units that have been tuned for quad core and under load they are up in the 250-280PSI mark, even my S/S runns at 245PSI fully loaded so 200PSI is very good and this has not been tuned yet so theres a bit more to come from the unit.
maverik-sg1
New member
Guys,
Great result - very impressive looks stable too.
The water is being drawn from a source that is outside, any idea of water temps or what size rad would be required to achieve similar stable results in an all in one package.
I often thought that this would be the way to go (when boardy was doing his own phase I recal discussing it) and that there is probably room in a standard mach case for a 120x2 rad (alpha or XSPC not PA120.2) so hopefully that would be enough?
What i love about the work I see here in Baz and sacha's project is that its innovative and revolutionary - should be part of a new design of SS, can it benefit cascade?
Mav
Great result - very impressive looks stable too.
The water is being drawn from a source that is outside, any idea of water temps or what size rad would be required to achieve similar stable results in an all in one package.
I often thought that this would be the way to go (when boardy was doing his own phase I recal discussing it) and that there is probably room in a standard mach case for a 120x2 rad (alpha or XSPC not PA120.2) so hopefully that would be enough?
What i love about the work I see here in Baz and sacha's project is that its innovative and revolutionary - should be part of a new design of SS, can it benefit cascade?
Mav
[O-CuK]Marci
New member
Heatload of compressor + heatload of processor basically... then necessary fans to cool that heatload to as close to ambient as possible for best performance. Won't be quiet.
Must point out, watercooled condensing of phasechange units was done years ago back when the Vapo Classic was "new" and Kryotech were still churning out units - pre-prometeia days... lost to the depths of time now - all the forums seem to have dropped much of their original content from those days.
T
Thickbrit
Guest
Any floodback issues Bazx ? I think it will be a totally different ballgame though to run that on a rad as opposed to what you have now.Nothing more than a single rad could be fitted in a standard mach box and i doubt that will offer much improvement over a decent condenser.As for chilled water,if you're gonna use a 2nd compressor to chill the water,might as well do a cascade,IMO.I too have had thoughts that a lot of these overpriced evaps offer very little performance advantage over the stock mach head,hence my using a stock unit for 24/7.Good stuff guys,gotta love this shlt.
Hi Baz,
Very nice construction and results
I think your low side pressure gauge is in error, reading low....? It is reading approx 8PSIg at which pressure you would only be able to achieve -38c with r402a at the start of evaporation, about 0.5c higher at the end of evaporation.
The main advantage of this kind of water cooled condensor will be that the volumetric efficiency of the compressor is increased.
It's fair to think of the volumetric efficiency of a compressor as the actual working displacement of the compressor divided by the compressors real displacement.
As the compression ratio increases the effective working displacement of a compressor decreases. For example under a typical single stages compression ratio an 11cc compressor might have an effective working displacement of 7cc, giving a volumetric efficiency of 64% - this figure is to be honest very optimistic for a normal single stage, it's probably closer to what you have with this system.
By decreasing the discharge pressure by using a lower condensing temperature provided by the water you will decrease the overall compression ratio at the same suction pressure. This causes an increase in volumetric efficiency meaning that the compressor is now able to move a higher mass of suction gas per second. Moving more mass of suction gas is the way that the mass flow is increased, increasing the evaporating capacity of the system.
I worked out the volumetric efficiency v's compression ratio of a Danfoss NL11F based on Danfoss datasheet figures, it's on xs somewhere but xs is down as usual he he!
Using a lower condensing temperature there's also an increase in available enthalpy in evaporation (how much heat a gram or Kg of refrigerant can absorb) but this is a smaller effect than the increase in volumetric efficiency gives.
Got to give you the hand Baz, literally everything you do is so well made, then you and Paul together... Jesus - it's top quality work!
Tom
Very nice construction and results
I think your low side pressure gauge is in error, reading low....? It is reading approx 8PSIg at which pressure you would only be able to achieve -38c with r402a at the start of evaporation, about 0.5c higher at the end of evaporation.
The main advantage of this kind of water cooled condensor will be that the volumetric efficiency of the compressor is increased.
It's fair to think of the volumetric efficiency of a compressor as the actual working displacement of the compressor divided by the compressors real displacement.
As the compression ratio increases the effective working displacement of a compressor decreases. For example under a typical single stages compression ratio an 11cc compressor might have an effective working displacement of 7cc, giving a volumetric efficiency of 64% - this figure is to be honest very optimistic for a normal single stage, it's probably closer to what you have with this system.
By decreasing the discharge pressure by using a lower condensing temperature provided by the water you will decrease the overall compression ratio at the same suction pressure. This causes an increase in volumetric efficiency meaning that the compressor is now able to move a higher mass of suction gas per second. Moving more mass of suction gas is the way that the mass flow is increased, increasing the evaporating capacity of the system.
I worked out the volumetric efficiency v's compression ratio of a Danfoss NL11F based on Danfoss datasheet figures, it's on xs somewhere but xs is down as usual he he!
Using a lower condensing temperature there's also an increase in available enthalpy in evaporation (how much heat a gram or Kg of refrigerant can absorb) but this is a smaller effect than the increase in volumetric efficiency gives.
Got to give you the hand Baz, literally everything you do is so well made, then you and Paul together... Jesus - it's top quality work!
Tom
