DirectX and OpenGL move towards lower levels- Is Mantle dead in the water?

[WYP]

In September AMD announced Mantle, a ground breaking new API designed to allow developers to have close to the metal hardware access, which today is allowing them to gain all kinds of performance improvements.

Today the session catalogs for GDC, the Game Developers Conference, have been made public showing that there will be some interesting changes in store on the API front from Microsoft's Direct3D and OpenGL.

Microsoft will be coming to GDC with 2 sessions completely dedicated to Direct3D, commonly called DirectX, Microsoft's 3D graphic API.

The session titles and abstracts are as follows.

DirectX: Evolving Microsoft's Graphics Platform

For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.

Come learn our plans to deliver.

DirectX: Direct3D Futures

Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before!

In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.

If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk.

Nvidia also will be leading a presentation on the reduction of driver overhead on OpenGL titled;

Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL

This presentation will include speaking from all 3 major graphic providers (AMD, Nvidia and Intel). The description is as follows.

Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious--robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today's OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead--by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.

So what does this mean for Mantle, with both major graphic APIs taking steps to produce what Mantle has promised while also allowing all graphics to use them, you won't be wrong thinking that AMD's groundbreaking new API may not have a long lasting future.

That being said AMD has a tremendous lead here, Mantle already has games utilizing some of its features and benifits, while Direct3D and OpenGL are still one month away from showing their responses- and much farther away from seeing these responses in-game.

Mantle has changed the game, but how long will it remain a player?

Source - Tech Report

 

[SeekaX]

yea mantle is dead in the water that was clear from the beginning, but AMD have reached their goal. Their APUs are far more viable now and they might be able to catch a breath in the CPU market as well.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Mantle at least succeeded in getting MS to do more. That alone helps the PC industry.

 

[WYP]

Mantle at least succeeded in getting MS to do more. That alone helps the PC industry.

Agreed, the winners here are us PC gamers.

AMD has got people to rethink how APIs work and this will bring us better made games with more optimal use of our hardware.

Microsoft can sill mess this up by forcing us to "upgrade" to newer versions of windows to use this new form of DirectX, and that is provided it comes anytime soon, which is highly unlikely too.

 

[SieB]

Got to laugh that this is only happening because of Mantle, if it wasn't for Mantle, MS and OGL wouldn't have done anything and things would have remained the same, so lets all take that in to consideration. At least AMD stepped up and did something, and they did it without anyone forcing them to because they were slacking. They did it to make things better, which in more ways than one, they have.

I wouldn't call Mantle dead in the water though, it ain't over till the fat lady sings and I don't hear any singing.

It is a good thing for everyone though, at lest now there wont just be a select few games from AMD that will benefit from low overheads. If DX and OGL can give the same buttery smooth gameplay Mantle does then games are going to be much better, the difference is like playing on a higher refresh rate with one and playing on a lower refresh rate with the other.

 

[NeverBackDown]

This could all be a PR stunt as well.. just keeps getting delayed and such making Devs think "We'll just wait for DX12(or whatever) instead of Mantle" but Delays keep happening making Mantle never being adopted much..

Hopefully thats not the case though.

 

[barnsley]

Mantle was never going to take off. Kinda nice to see that DirectX might be done up again. It was only a matter of time I guess.

 

[SeekaX]

Got to laugh that this is only happening because of Mantle, if it wasn't for Mantle, MS and OGL wouldn't have done anything and things would have remained the same, so lets all take that in to consideration. At least AMD stepped up and did something, and they did it without anyone forcing them to because they were slacking. They did it to make things better, which in more ways than one, they have.

it's not like they did it because they love us so much, they did it to not get kicked out completely out of the CPU market. so yea, finances forced them.

 

[WoefulDragon]

Simple answer No AMD mantle is a lower level API than Direct X.
So u can change Direct X and Open GL by doing more to reduce CPU bottle neck and try to be a efficient equal to Mantle with some change's making it a lower level API abut it will still lead to a system that's not as low level API as Mantle is.
That said AMD, Nvidia, Intel and the gaming community will alway's help Microsoft with DirectX and Open GL as its the stable foundation that all company's use to make there software,Hardware and Game's around including Mantle as Mantle was brought about because of DirectX's problem's. So if one day Mantle was to replace/ improve Direct X then We ALL WIN

 

[SieB]

it's not like they did it because they love us so much, they did it to not get kicked out completely out of the CPU market. so yea, finances forced them.

They got kicked out of the CPU competition? When did this happen? AMD's CPUs may not be as good as Intel's but they are still competitive and they are the the only CPU competition.

Mantle doesn't just improve performance for AMD CPUs, it improves it for Intel CPUs as well. Intel's i3, my 2500k and even a 4960K benefit from Mantle.
If you think AMD were doing it just for themselves do you really think they would also do it in a way that benefits their Intel counterparts in the same way?

Call this a victory for DX and OGL all you want, the truth is they are only doing it because mantle scares the crap out of them.
Shame that they only do something after several years, just because someone came along and did better.

Even though it is still a good thing, it's done in a very lame way and shows you how much MS and OGL care. As I have said many times, at least AMD did something. Now everyone else has crapped themselves after seeing what it is capable of and only now are they doing something with the only reason being because someone did better.

 

[cooperman]

it's not like they did it because they love us so much, they did it to not get kicked out completely out of the CPU market. so yea, finances forced them.

Dont be silly pretty sure sony sold one million ps4's on opening week thats one million AMD cpu's sold rigth there...

 

[SeekaX]

They got kicked out of the CPU competition? When did this happen? AMD's CPUs may not be as good as Intel's but they are still competitive and they are the the only CPU competition.

Mantle doesn't just improve performance for AMD CPUs, it improves it for Intel CPUs as well. Intel's i3, my 2500k and even my 4960Ks benefit from Mantle.
If you think AMD were doing just for themselves do you really think they would also do it in a way that benefits their Intel counterparts in the same way?

Call this a victory for DX and OGL all you want, the truth is they are only doing it because mantle scares the crap out of them.
Shame that they only do something after several years, just because someone came along and did better.

Even though it is still a good thing, it's done in a very lame way and shows you how much MS and OGL care. As I have said many times, at least AMD did something. Now everyone else has crapped themselves after seeing what it is capable of and only now are they doing something with the only reason being is because someone did better.

yea, one intel core is worth two AMD cores, one hell of a competition.
nobody does anything for charity in business, AMD made mantle because they had to make their APUs and CPUs more viable which mantle does by utilizing cores more effectively.
i didn't even say this was a victory for OGL and MS, it's a victory for AMD and we are benefiting from it, just don't call it a nice gesture from AMD to save planet PC gaming because that's just naive.

 

[Tripp]

its a great time to be a pc gamer thats for sure

 

[barnsley]

To be fair, AMD haven't really needed to try to appear as 'good guys'. Nvidia are quite closed about Gsync etc and by making it even slightly compatible with Nvid, AMD get good publicity. Its good enough to the point where not even their idiotic PR/advertising teams can ruin it.

 

[SieB]

yea, one intel core is worth two AMD cores, one hell of a competition.
nobody does anything for charity in business, AMD made mantle because they had to make their APUs and CPUs more viable which mantle does by utilizing cores more effectively.
i didn't even say this was a victory for OGL and MS, it's a victory for AMD and we are benefiting from it, just don't call it a nice gesture from AMD to save planet PC gaming because that's just naive.

Who said they did it for charity? they still did something, which is more than anyone else did. They had their interests at hart but they were still doing something that not only benefited themselves, but benefited everyone, including their direct competition.

Nvidia, MS, OGL hasn't done anything, only now Mantle has been released and they have seen what it can do are they doing something. Not because they wanted to, but because now they have to.

There is a big difference between what AMD has done and what MS and OGL are only just now deciding to do.

One was out of the interest of increasing performance not only for their own gain, but also for the benefit of others.

The other one is out of soiled pants due to a slap in the face and out of greed because they need to do something to stop the competition. Because they now know they will lose out otherwise, and it has nothing to do with them wanting to improve things for either themselves or others.

 

[Wraith]

Call this a victory for DX and OGL all you want, the truth is they are only doing it because mantle scares the crap out of them.
Shame that they only do something after several years, just because someone came along and did better.

Even though it is still a good thing, it's done in a very lame way and shows you how much MS and OGL care. As I have said many times, at least AMD did something. Now everyone else has crapped themselves after seeing what it is capable of and only now are they doing something with the only reason being because someone did better.

Bill Gates was quoted as saying "If you want to solve a complex problem, employ a lazy person to do it as they find the easiest and quickest way around it"

I think we can apply this to the new news of Dx & OpenGL they have clearly just waited for someone to do it first i.e AMD then disassembled Mantle found the code they need and it'll be integrated to Dx & OpenGL

 

[NeverBackDown]

Bill Gates was quoted as saying "If you want to solve a complex problem, employ a lazy person to do it as they find the easiest and quickest way around it"

I think we can apply this to the new news of Dx & OpenGL they have clearly just waited for someone to do it first i.e AMD then disassembled Mantle found the code they need and it'll be integrated to Dx & OpenGL

Nicely done with that analogy, makes a lot of sense.

No news on DX and OGL so far as to how they are getting closer to the hardware like Mantle so really all this arguing is pointless until further concrete known facts are revealed. In the meantime everyone can just be grateful something is getting done and benefiting everyone!

Long live PC after all eh?^_^

 

[steve30x]

This means that we will be forced to install a new OS again to use this new tech.

 

[SeekaX]

This means that we will be forced to install a new OS again to use this new tech.

what? no compatibility for windows 95? those god damn money hungry satanists!

 

[barnsley]

what? no compatibility for windows 95? those god damn money hungry satanists!

Windows 8 only?