Der8auer successfully delids Intel's 12-18 core Skylake-X CPUs

Well my friends 920 died last year. Had been OCed to 4 GHz for a long time.
That could actually be the solder :D

lol.

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There you go. I have outlined everything within view that is soldered. Also, how does Intel connect up the die to the pads on the bottom of the CPU? why that would be solder under the die correct? so if solder cracks under the heat then why do they do that? and why do those *tiny* ICs I have outlined not crack, given they are soldered and they are absolutely tiny? What about all of the ICs underneath that are in plain view? the ones literally sealed into the socket? why don't they dry out and crack?

Heat kills over a long period of time. However, voltage will kill far faster. And you can't have the voltage without a serious reduction in the heat. And we know that, and that is why we always wind back the clock by about 300mhz at least in order to stabilise temps.
 
lol.

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There you go. I have outlined everything within view that is soldered. Also, how does Intel connect up the die to the pads on the bottom of the CPU? why that would be solder under the die correct? so if solder cracks under the heat then why do they do that? and why do those *tiny* ICs I have outlined not crack, given they are soldered and they are absolutely tiny? What about all of the ICs underneath that are in plain view? the ones literally sealed into the socket? why don't they dry out and crack?

Heat kills over a long period of time. However, voltage will kill far faster. And you can't have the voltage without a serious reduction in the heat. And we know that, and that is why we always wind back the clock by about 300mhz at least in order to stabilise temps.

It is the larger ICs that have a problem with solder and cracking, you have just gone a long way to making intel's argument for them.:D

Even intel have said that small ICs are fine to solder.
 
It is the larger ICs that have a problem with solder and cracking, you have just gone a long way to making intel's argument for them.:D

Even intel have said that small ICs are fine to solder.

Did you read what I just typed? what about when they solder the actual die to the rest of the CPU?

Sorry Kaap, YOU are making excuses for Intel. And all the time you do that they will just carry on. They must be sitting there laughing that some one would actually lie for them so that people still buy their CPUs. How many people do you know with soldered CPUs that have cracked the solder? none. I bet it's none because I go on all of the forums you do.

I was watching a video this morning (note - I am not talking about you guys here but it was just a general observation made about computer companies) and the guy said "This is why it is so stupid to be a fanboy. Simply because the companies making these parts don't sit there thinking "Wow isn't that touching and lovely etc !" they simply don't care. They are large corporations put in place to make money hand over fist. And they don't care how they do it, so people on forums sticking up for them is just stupid.

You also seem to be forgetting, Kaap, that AMD are soldering all of their CPUs. All of them. In fact, I can't even recall AMD ever making a CPU that was not soldered ever. Sure I remember loads with exposed dies etc but since they started putting on IHS they have all been soldered.

Solder's lowest melting point is 180c. It goes up to 450c. A motherboard will shut down the system if a CPU reaches about 106c, IIRC, and it will get there a lot faster with paste instead of solder. So they are obviously not worried about 106c.

Even intel have said that small ICs are fine to solder.

That was just more of their BS. Too small, too big.. It keeps changing. That's why I am finally ready to call them out on their BS.
 
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How many people do you know with soldered CPUs that have cracked the solder? none. I bet it's none because I go on all of the forums you do.

You do realise that you need specialised equipment to check for the above that would be unavailable to 99.9% of the people on forums.

I use equipment at work that can do this but even then it is a real pain in the backside checking for microscopic cracks and flaws and this is assuming I could even get to the solder without damaging it in the process.

I am not trying to defend intel here and the fact that my real name is Robert Noyce is pure coincidence.:D
 
Kaap - going back to what you were saying. Yes heat will kill but voltage will kill faster. The point is that if they are soldered you have to go easier on voltage and easier on the clock speeds, or else your CPU will get too hot. We're not thick, we know where the temps should be and we know the safe temps. If a CPU is too hot what do we do? we wind back the volts and clocks. I've literally just done it on my Titan XP.

Whay are they for/on an Ryzen 7 1700X?...
 
You do realise that you need specialised equipment to check for the above that would be unavailable to 99.9% of the people on forums.

I use equipment at work that can do this but even then it is a real pain in the backside checking for microscopic cracks and flaws and this is assuming I could even get to the solder without damaging it in the process.

I am not trying to defend intel here and the fact that my real name is Robert Noyce is pure coincidence.:D

If you don't have an issue there's nothing to detect, no? As I maintain, find me a thread where some one is reporting abnormal temps (like 90c at idle) on their soldered CPU with nothing fixing it. Yes, we've seen it on some MSI GPUs when the die substrate warps, but not on a CPU. Come on Kaap, you're an intelligent man and you own a lot of hardware. In fact, you own more than most. How many CPUs have you had die because of the solder cracking? I would bet that is none.

You say heat kills. I disagree. Well, I don't disagree but let's put it this way. When Tom here on OC3D killed his 980x was it too hot? was it chuff. He shoved it full of volts and it popped.

When Jayz killed his FX 8 CPU a couple of months ago was it too hot? nope. He shoved up the volts whilst leaving LLC on extreme, pressed the power button and POP. That was all she wrote.

Buildzoid has just literally killed his Vega FE. Too much voltage.

I still maintain, you can not add those sorts of voltages without temps shutting down your rig if it is pasted. What would happen if Intel soldered all of their CPUs? why, people would just keep shoving them full of volts and higher clocks right? that is why people delid, to eliminate that issue? yeah, well I bet if people did that Intel would have an awful lot more CPUs to RMA.

That sort of stuff *is* in Intel's interests. Unlike the brown nosed fanboy that will cost them cash.

Tell me, how much can you over volt a Nvidia GPU now? wait, you can't? I wonder why that is. Nvidia have obviously spent big coin on quite extreme testing and have taken their GPUs to the safe limits (IE they don't fail and cost them cash) and then they have locked the crap out of it and come down on any one who tries to circumvent it with an iron fist.

And it's exactly the same reason Intel paste their CPUs. To prevent as many RMA as possible. That is business, that is how business works.
 
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And it's exactly the same reason Intel paste their CPUs. To prevent as many RMA as possible. That is business, that is how business works.

But does that make them twats? Yes, to me it does because they're more interested in themselves than their customers (to me, a company's main directive is to serve its customers, and the customer's main directive is to respectfully and dutifully pay the company; it's a give and take). But the majority of companies find ways to save their asses, so why are Intel treated any differently in this situation? If what you're saying is true—and I believe it is—Intel are putting themselves above their customers, something most companies do. I know I wouldn't pump my CPU full of voltage just because it can handle the heat, but I would love for the temperatures of my modest overclock to be lowered by using solder instead of paste. So as a customer, I'm out of luck. But I'm not every customer. According to what you're saying, Intel are saving themselves from the idiots driving 1.5V or more into their CPUs just because they have water cooling and can handle the temperatures. That doesn't sound that unreasonable.
 
But does that make them twats? Yes, to me it does because they're more interested in themselves than their customers (to me, a company's main directive is to serve its customers, and the customer's main directive is to respectfully and dutifully pay the company; it's a give and take). But the majority of companies find ways to save their asses, so why are Intel treated any differently in this situation? If what you're saying is true—and I believe it is—Intel are putting themselves above their customers, something most companies do. I know I wouldn't pump my CPU full of voltage just because it can handle the heat, but I would love for the temperatures of my modest overclock to be lowered by using solder instead of paste. So as a customer, I'm out of luck. But I'm not every customer. According to what you're saying, Intel are saving themselves from the idiots driving 1.5V or more into their CPUs just because they have water cooling and can handle the temperatures. That doesn't sound that unreasonable.

Intel have always been a soulless corporation who hate their end users. That goes back as far as I have been into hardware and it all became a big thing. In the mid to late 90s Intel started their Pentium CPUs and from that moment on people have been overclocking. It used to be as simple as setting a jumper. Your board had jumpers on it for specific CPUs, you simply set yours as the one above. Bingo, free performance.

The Celeron 300A is a legend. Simply set the bus for a P2 450 (4.5 x 100) instead of the normal base clock of 66mhz and you basically have a chip worth over twice the price. It really was that easy.

Back in those days companies used to actually advertise overclocks much as they do now. However, Intel hated it. They hated the people that did it, because they were avoiding paying higher prices. We were threatened at our shop not to do so, and if we did and they caught us they wouldn't give us the drippings off of their arse. In fact at one point they told us if we stocked AMD products we would get no more Intel products. At all. That is what that lawsuit going on now is about, crap like that.

Intel's rep (in my area like) didn't have a a clue about computers. He was a 20 year old flash boy (posh suits and shoes etc) and stunk of aftershave. All he cared about was getting laid of a weekend, had no interest in computers at all. He was sent to sell us crap, and that is what he did.

So yeah, as long as Intel have known about overclocking they have hated it and the people who do it. Back in those days jumpers could not be avoided, there was no way to stop people overclocking. But as soon as they could do it? they did. Problem is when you sell multiple products with different base speeds what do you do? you don't have much choice really. That is how overclockers managed to get around the multi locks. They simply set the bus speed higher, and bang ! overclock. But I promise you, if Intel could have stopped that they would. Then we get to Sandybridge and Intel think they can capitalise on overclocking and do so. They sell this performance warranty on a soldered CPU. Hell, they even allowed the "locked" ones to be overclocked by X4.

Then we get to Haswell and the solder is gone, the performance warranty is gone (because who in their right mind would pay for that when Intel can't prove how a dead CPU came to be dead?) and yeah, the rest is history. They also removed the "free" X4 from the locked CPUs. Probably because people were buying those and overclocking them and not buying the K versions.

AMD? pretty much not a sniff of any of the above. Even their multi locked Phenom 2 CPUs could be overclocked via the bus, the black editions just made it easier for noobs. Since then though? not a padlock in sight and plenty of lovely solder.
 
If all of that is true—and I remember you telling me about the shop you worked at and how Intel dealt with you—it's ironic that Intel are selling more chips because of their overclocking capabilities, at least to enthusiasts; and enthusiasts sell chips by proxy to the average consumer. So if Intel hate overclocking, they sure are making a lot of money off of it.
 
If all of that is true—and I remember you telling me about the shop you worked at and how Intel dealt with you—it's ironic that Intel are selling more chips because of their overclocking capabilities, at least to enthusiasts; and enthusiasts sell chips by proxy to the average consumer. So if Intel hate overclocking, they sure are making a lot of money off of it.

Well that's just it really. They are making money from it now yeah. Having said that they railroad you into buying the K product as it carries a stupid price tag. Kinda like "Well here look there are all of these CPUs but this is the one you are going to buy right? because we've made the rest of them crap".

Look at what they charged noobs for overclocking in the past. Extreme editions. QX6700 vs Q6600? nothing apart from an unlocked multi that was useless because the best overclocks came from the bus. But yeah, over double the price. What corporation wouldn't do that?

However, as I have mentioned before there comes a point where any old thicky can blow up a CPU. It only takes one split second of too much voltage and bang, it's gone. So they have had to come up with a strategy to stop that happening.
 
OK but you still didn't answer my question. When was the last time you had a CPU that was soldered and it cracked?

Well, considering its hard to find a CPU that is soldered. That could be difficult to answer right now :)

Personally I wouldn't mind the paste if only they used a decent quality one. Would love to see the day they went into partnership with a reputable manufacturer so we got to see MX-4 being used, or something from Grizzly etc.
 
Well that's just it really. They are making money from it now yeah. Having said that they railroad you into buying the K product as it carries a stupid price tag. Kinda like "Well here look there are all of these CPUs but this is the one you are going to buy right? because we've made the rest of them crap".

Look at what they charged noobs for overclocking in the past. Extreme editions. QX6700 vs Q6600? nothing apart from an unlocked multi that was useless because the best overclocks came from the bus. But yeah, over double the price. What corporation wouldn't do that?

However, as I have mentioned before there comes a point where any old thicky can blow up a CPU. It only takes one split second of too much voltage and bang, it's gone. So they have had to come up with a strategy to stop that happening.

Lol the last time we had this discussion, it got pretty heated with some choice insults thrown at me AlienALX. I have a sense of Dèju vu here. ;) (minus the insults this time)

I maintain. If the CPU is soldered then we can put more voltage through it and get higher clocks, right? why else would people delid? because they want to play Russian roulette and lose a grand? no, no, they actually do it to bring down temps so they can shove more voltage in and get higher clocks.

That's not why I do it at all. I want to bring temperatures down plane and simple. I value a silent system way more than a over clocked rig of blistering noise. I have no interest in pushing more volts through it. That just degrades the life of the CPU. Anything over 4.4ghz is negligible anyway. There is little to no gain from it, especially if gaming.
 
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Well that's quite sad really. Having to take apart your CPU and voiding your warranty just so that your fans don't go crazy. To be fair though many who delid do it for higher clocks. Most of these Intels that all hit 5ghz with reviewers do not with end users. So they delid for that mainly.
 
Well that's quite sad really. Having to take apart your CPU and voiding your warranty just so that your fans don't go crazy. To be fair though many who delid do it for higher clocks. Most of these Intels that all hit 5ghz with reviewers do not with end users. So they delid for that mainly.

Why is that sad? I know an incredible amount of people who do it to brag about low temps, not high clocks. It was a number of my colleagues that persuaded me sometime ago to focus on silence over wasted performance. In the end, you are limited to silicon lottery anyway.

It just comes down to personal preference really.

I'm more proud of stating my 4.2Ghz peaks at 48C on full load, than saying I got it to 4.6ghz after plugging 1.4v through it, with 70C temp watercooled.

Going back to old CPUs though... my gf has been using my 2500k for the last 5 years, still going strong and over clocking to 5.0ghz. Yeah was golden lottery, but that being said, I suppose the whole solder cracking over time thing is just down to bad luck maybe? while she doesnt play anything taxing, mainly warhammer online, I don't recall ever any problems with that chip.
 
I just think it's sad that people have to take a £330 risk for quiet. I don't mean sad as in "You sad " I mean sad as in genuinely sad.
 
Yawn. So AMD are idiots and all of their CPUs fail? Sandybridge CPUs die because they are soldered and so do Westmere and so on?

I find it rather annoying when people call their opinions the truth. Because that is all that is ^ his opinion. It does not explain why Intel are using solder elsewhere all over the CPU. As I said, micro fractures in the solder obviously don't cause any issues otherwise that would have come to light, now, years after Sandy launched.

Edit. Have you even read it, Kaap? or did you just blindly post it trying to prove a point. Let's take a snippet of the article with me interjecting along the way.

Skylake Soldering

I spent months and some $$$ figuring out how to solder a recent Intel Skylake CPU. After reading the above you an imagine that it's by far not as simple as it sounds like. I'm not going to publish all info on Skylake soldering for now <butts in, why?> because I'm still waiting for the thermal cycling results <then why has he not uploaded them since and said how bad it is?> So far I can say that it worked great on air.

During Prime95 AVX load the CPU core temperature is about 50c. The CPU was cooled by a Prolimatech Megayhalems <never that good IMO> with one fan at an ambient temperature of 24c. Compared to stock the temperature dropped by about 18c.

OK, interjections and emphasis added. He then goes on to say that it doesn't bode well for liquid nitrogen, so I suppose with you clutching at straws you are then going to say that Intel do not solder their CPUs for about 15 people. That would be nice of them.

Edit. OK, so let's think about that for a moment like I just have. The temperature on a Skylake 6700k dropped by 18c. These are unlocked, overclockable CPUs. What do you think would happen if they were to release a CPU 18c cooler than it was before?

Don't tell me, I was right yeah? you would shove it full of volts and overclock it as hard as you could, given your new thermal window.
 
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Pfft, I wouldn't take anything that guy says seriously. So he's a "professional overclocker", LOL! Like THAT makes him ultra-knowledgeable about CPU production and long-term usability of CPUs.
 
Pfft, I wouldn't take anything that guy says seriously. So he's a "professional overclocker", LOL! Like THAT makes him ultra-knowledgeable about CPU production and long-term usability of CPUs.

It's actually very, very stupid to write articles like that when companies like AMD have been soldering CPUs for over a decade and we have never had a "CPU solder gate". The only gate I remember was when Nvidia cracked out a load of mobile GPUs some years ago that got so hot the solder broke underneath and they had to RMA all of them for free (providing the poor sod who had one knew about the recall).

I have never, in all of my life, seen a CPU soldered that has failed (EDIT thermally because of solder) . Ever. And I have been into computers since I was 7 years old and I am 43 now.
 
I find it rather annoying when people call their opinions the truth.

Emmm... you do that all the time... In fact, you did it in this thread.

It's Twatism. I 100% promise you. Intel despise overclockers and have ever since the Pentium days when people were overclocking their P60 to P75 and so on. They've done everything they can to stop it, and then they learned to sell it. Only they don't want the RMAs so they paste it to stop you going too far.

But in all seriousness:

It's actually very, very stupid to write articles like that when companies like AMD have been soldering CPUs for over a decade and we have never had a "CPU solder gate". The only gate I remember was when Nvidia cracked out a load of mobile GPUs some years ago that got so hot the solder broke underneath and they had to RMA all of them for free (providing the poor sod who had one knew about the recall).

I have never, in all of my life, seen a CPU soldered that has failed (EDIT thermally because of solder) . Ever. And I have been into computers since I was 7 years old and I am 43 now.

I don't think it's stupid. I think he knows that AMD and Intel CPUs and engineers do things differently and their products are different. Which is better? I'm not an engineer so I can only guess. I only have what you told me about Intel's past and the performance results of delidding Intel processors.
 
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