XFX so called tech support (a long read - but funny)

[86sixsix]

So called tech departments - are they any good in the face of adversity?

Here's a direct cut n paste from my XFX tech support ticket... A friend of mine asked about the quality of support so I made up this fictional issue about DVI/HDMI EDID resolution issues... Their complete lack of understanding about their products is quite astonishing...

[ 1/7/2010 3:16:44 PM] Using a DVI HDMI adapter and HDMI cable into my monitor, I get no picture during POST (or anything `text mode` pre-windows). Using another monitor, I am able to see that the card defaults to 1280x720@50Hz. Unfortunately, the monitor I want to use doesn`t have this in its EDID. How can I reflash the GTX to use something sensible like 1024x768@60Hz at POST?

[SHAUN_T 1/7/2010 3:20:09 PM] Hi Rick, thanks for your message, please edit your XFX profile by registering your graphics cards serial number. Im afraid this is down to the monitor, not the graphics card. So with the other monitor that you tried, did you have these issues or did it all work without any issues? Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 1/7/2010 11:34:08 PM] I don`t know where the serial number is. The other monitor was connected via VGA which my monitor does not have. Over DVI, and over HDMI it outputs 1280x720@50Hz which this monitor displays as `mode not supported` during the BIOS/POST/text-mode phase of boot-up. How can I flash the bios to tell the card to output another resolution/frequency over a digital-out during the BIOS/POST/text-mode phase?

[SHAUN_T 1/8/2010 10:25:13 AM] Hi Rick, thanks for the quick response and extra information. There are no BIOS updates available for your graphics card Im afraid. We recommend contacting your monitor manufacturer to see if they can help out with this. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 1/8/2010 12:36:35 PM] Just tell me what bytes I need to edit in the BIOS and I`ll do it myself. How exactly would a monitor manufacture be able to help with the slightly-non-standard output resolution of a graphics card? All I need if for you to say `change xyz bytes to xyz` and it`ll output 60Hz and reflash and I`m happy... I can send you my monitor`s EDID if it will help you?

[PAULV 1/11/2010 11:17:21 AM] Hi, thanks for your message and for letting us know. The card does not default to any specific resolution, this depends on the drivers, but during POST the card will use a BIOS standard display implemented. What you need here is an EDID update, which only the monitor manufacturer can supply, im afraid we are not in a position to state which specific Bytes you need to change as we only support XFX cards, again this is info you will need to source from the monitor manufacturer. Hope all goes well, however if any queries or problems please keep us posted. Kind regards Paul

[ 1/11/2010 7:15:54 PM] Drivers don`t come into it. I am on about POSTing. Like way before the OS loads. Do you have a clue what POSTing even is? Since when has 1280x720@50hz been a standard for displaying text mode? (And why does it output 1024x768 over VGA during the same period?) Please give me the *exact* timing information then for my *XFX* card`s output then over a digital connection and I will flash my monitor`s EDID. I`d really rather just flash the graphics card and tell it to use VESA timings during POST, and not my £1,000 TV. I need to knnow the active pixels, front porch, sync width, back porch, blanking and total pixels as well as scan rates (obviously I need horizontal and vertical for all those). And this IS an XFX card - I wouldn`t be writing here if it wasn`t. A gigabyte card (same GPU, slightly lower clocks) puts out 800x600 so it can be done. NOWHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS *XFX* CARD SAYS MY TELLY HAS TO DO 1280X720@50Hz TO DO TEXT MODE. I can`t even install windows (text mode obviously) on that machine without buying a new monitor. Cheaper for me to bin this XFX and go and buy something proper. With tech support who actually have a clue and aren`t simply reading from a script trying to fob you off at every opportunity.

[JAMES 1/13/2010 3:27:18 PM] Hi, thanks for your message, we do not have tis documentation at the moment Rick, but probably the quickets way to get at least most of this info would be to download the `powerstrip` application fro a site like guru3D.com. This has advanced information on monitor and video display hardware and will have most of the details you mentioned. kind regards, James

[ 1/14/2010 11:56:36 AM] How do you propose I get into powerstrip when I can`t see the screen to install windows? Perhaps if you actually read my messages we`d get further. There were 3 spelling mistakes in your last reply by the way. You`ve told me to update my EDID which I will do (had to buy a lead for £80.00!) and now you`re saying you don`t have the data needed for me to update it. So far I have wasted £280.00 (card, HDMI lead, and now EDID flash lead) on your stupid company. I need the timing data so I can flash the EDID. All you need to do is fire up a similar card for me in windows (connected to a monitor or TV by HDMI) - open the nvidia control panel, set your PC to 1280x720@50hz, go to custom resolutions and tell me *all* the numbers that are written in there. IT`S NOT HARD. Now please help me and stop trying to fob me off.

[JAMES 1/14/2010 1:07:11 PM] Hi, thanks for your message, and also for the spelling critique. I`ll try to do better next time. We will get this info for you as soon as we have a matching working card. Regards, James.

[ 1/18/2010 11:32:15 AM] OK... I was just getting so stressed about this. All I need is for someone to get to the 1280x720@50hz res, AND IT MUST BE PLUGGED IN VIA HDMI (because the numbers are different using a VGA adapter), get into custom res, and pretend they want to create a new res, and the numbers are all in there. By default it only shows horiz, vert, and refresh - you have to click the little box that makes that dialogue expand to show all the numbers about porches and sync widths. I will wait for your reply when you have the matching card. My card is the 192core, 640mhz one. And while I am on to you... when will you start selling the Fermi based cards... I am desperate to go DX11 but can`t stand ATI/AMD stuff... Please don`t reply till you have the numbers I need... Because this ticket will go `idle` and I don`t want that to happen...

[TONY 1/20/2010 4:57:35 PM] HI, modern implementation of the digital visual interface relies on EDID information from the display hardware. If not detected, you will not be able to setup the display properly. I`d advise to check for a firmware update for the monitor/tv and please let us know if it helps. BTW do you have any problems registereing the serial number? Thanks Tony

[ 1/20/2010 6:42:20 PM] Tony, please go back and read the whole `thread`...and DON`T REPLY TILL JAMES HAS THE NUMBERS HE`S GETTING FOR ME - I DON`T WANT THIS TICKET TO SIT IDLE... Lord knows where the serial number is...i bought this card from Scan, Bolton, UK if that helps...

[TONY 1/21/2010 3:19:26 PM] HI, serial number is on the product label on the card and on the box, e.g. J1H918532. Thanks Tony

[ 1/21/2010 3:27:09 PM] OK. I can`t pull the card out my machine to see it. My bios will reset to default if I do. And if you read the whole thread - you`ll see why I can`t do this till I get the numbers I`m waiting for. FOR THE THIRD TIME - DON`T REPLY TO THIS UNTIL EITHER YOU OR JAMES HAS THE NUMBERS I NEED - I DON`T WANT THIS TICKET TO SIT `IDLE`. YOU LOT ARE BEGINNING TO IRRITATE ME NOW.

[JAMES 1/21/2010 3:29:09 PM] Hi, thanks for your message, we will need the serial number to be able to check this properly Rick, you can get it from the outside of the retail box. kind regards, James

[ 1/21/2010 3:38:41 PM] After I spoke to the retailer about a refund and he said no as the card is working I recycled the box and no longer have it. James - can only you deal with my problem, please. The other guy seems like an idiot. As soon as I can get a picture on my screen with the timing numbers you`re finding - I will pull the card out and send you the serial number. The card is a GX-260N-ADDU. A geforce 260, 192 cores, 640mhz core, your XXX version. Again, DON`T REPLY TILL YOU`VE GOT ME THE NUMBERS - I DON`T WANT THE TICKET TO SIT IDLE! I will be straight back to you with the serial the *minute* you get me the timing numbers.

[JAMES 1/22/2010 3:42:32 PM] Hi Rick, on GTX260 via DVI-HDMI at 1280x720@50hz on Automatic timings and progressive scan gives the following settings: Active Pixels - Horiz - 1280 Verti - 720 Front porch Horiz - 440 vert - 5 Sync Width Horiz - 40 Vert - 5 Total pixels horiz - 1980 verti - 750 Polarity Horiz - positive Vertic - positive Refresh rate Horiz - 37.50 Vertic - 50.00 Total Pixels - 74.2500mhz good luck kind regards, james This is all the info - there is no back porch info

[ 1/22/2010 5:05:53 PM] Stunning. Brilliant. The serial number is J8T062553. The card says it is a GX-260N-ADD9 so sorry for that. I`ve flashed over those numbers to my monitor`s EDID and I was up and running straight away. I could calculate the back porch from your figures myself. Windows 7 64 is now installed and working perfectly. It`s a pity it took over 2 weeks but it`s working now. SHAUN_T, PAULV and TONY suck. You rock.

[TONY 1/22/2010 5:21:07 PM] hi, glad to hear you did resolve, but we do not appreaciate comments like `suck` and `idiot`. ticket closed. Tony

[ 1/22/2010 6:42:15 PM] No problem. It`s still true though. Yes, feel free to close the ticket.

...still reading? lol. So, to sum up... they've got cracking products - but no idea on how they work. ...and they haven't even closed the ticket yet!

...and if anyone needs help doing EDID overrides, monitor resolution issues...give me a bell - I'd hate for someone to actually have this problem. 86sixsix.

 

[JN]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Considering most manufacturers have absolutely no idea about their products at all, I think XFX showed quite a reasonable understanding - possibly even higher than I'd have expected. I really don't think you helped the situation either with the rudeness towards them. Sure it can be infuriating not to get the answers you need, but getting arsey gets you nowhere in my experience. I think they handled you very well considering.

 

[Ging3r]

Tbh, they will have no knowledge to that depth of their products at front line tech support.

I had no iidea what you were going on about.

I think it's just good they replied to the ticket everytime and didnt just ignore it

 

[86sixsix]

^^good comments.

I must stress that my rudeness was deliberate to see how the company would react - and was surprised to see that they let the ticket continue.

Also, I chose the 'EDID/plug n play' issue because it is something 1st line support wouldn't have a clue about. If you google 'nvidia edidoverride' you'll see a lot of users having a similar issue. (albeit in windows, rather than pre-o/s)

So the good points: The issue was eventually resolved and they deal with stressed out customers well.

And the bad: Only 1 of the employees involved actually helped, some of the support staff don't read the full ticket causing delays and it takes a fortnight to resolve an issue that's 'out of the ordinary'.

You get a 'ticket satisfaction' thing to rate them... and I gave them 2 out of 5 stars. It would've been more apart from the constant replies without the promised information.

(I pity the poor fellow who has to deal with me if I ever get a real problem...lol)

 

[PP Mguire]

If you where in America they would have simply asked you to send the card in when in which they would flash the card probably to your specifications. In this case since your UK im highly suprised they even went to these lengths to serve you ( i only read half of it btw).

 

[Rastalovich]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Considering most manufacturers have absolutely no idea about their products at all, I think XFX showed quite a reasonable understanding - possibly even higher than I'd have expected. I really don't think you helped the situation either with the rudeness towards them. Sure it can be infuriating not to get the answers you need, but getting arsey gets you nowhere in my experience. I think they handled you very well considering.

Agreed.

 

[Freak]

You said it yourself, 1st line wouldnt have a clue about it.

The person that had a clue could well be 2nd line.

 

[86sixsix]

Keep the comments coming folks...

It does surprise me that almost all the comments are very 'pro' XFX... I can't believe that folk think they did a good job... Maybe everyone else is *really* rubbish.

A fortnight to resolve a timing issue...that's just poor

Install powerstrip...when there's no OS

Spelling mistaks...;-)

Wait while they get a similar card...they haven't got *any*?

Bumping the ticket back to me...for no good reason at all

Alright, the 'issue' was resolved...eventually...

My expectation of what to expect from 'tech' support is very different from everyone else it seems!

My friend and I are really into 'media playback' and I dread to think what would happen if he asks them how to play blu-ray discs at 24fps over component...

I take it none of the folk who replied to the original post have ever had EDID issues (or know what it is lol <joking>)... ;-)

 

[Msm2]

On some of the other forums this type of thread would be considered as "Trolling" which results in the person being banned.

 

[86sixsix]

On some of the other forums this type of thread would be considered as "Trolling" which results in the person being banned.

I thought trolling was related to 'offtopic' conversations, or threads designed to provoke others. This was not my intention but I apologise anyway to all the community users.

I'm aware my style of writing often comes across a bit 'heavy' - you'll have to forgive me for that.

EDIT: I only started the thread to highlight BOTH the successes AND shortcomings of a tech support department - if other users opinions differ from mine I have no problem whatsoever with that - I thought the point of this forum (and all the others like it) was to share experiences and help each other?

EDIT: Feel free to ban me - but please delete my posts beforehand... I haven't made many... I've taken myself out of the hwbot and folding teams to keep your results accurate...

 

[killablade]

I thought trolling was related to 'offtopic' conversations, or threads designed to provoke others. This was not my intention but I apologise anyway to all the community users.

I'm aware my style of writing often comes across a bit 'heavy' - you'll have to forgive me for that.

EDIT: I only started the thread to highlight BOTH the successes AND shortcomings of a tech support department - if other users opinions differ from mine I have no problem whatsoever with that - I thought the point of this forum (and all the others like it) was to share experiences and help each other?

EDIT: Feel free to ban me - but please delete my posts beforehand... I haven't made many... I've taken myself out of the hwbot and folding teams to keep your results accurate...

Why suddenly quit on us?

 

[Msm2]

I thought trolling was related to 'offtopic' conversations, or threads designed to provoke others. This was not my intention but I apologise anyway to all the community users.

I'm aware my style of writing often comes across a bit 'heavy' - you'll have to forgive me for that.

EDIT: I only started the thread to highlight BOTH the successes AND shortcomings of a tech support department - if other users opinions differ from mine I have no problem whatsoever with that - I thought the point of this forum (and all the others like it) was to share experiences and help each other?

EDIT: Feel free to ban me - but please delete my posts beforehand... I haven't made many... I've taken myself out of the hwbot and folding teams to keep your results accurate...

Personnally I wouldnt ban you for this.I totally agree with your 1st EDIT the forum is too share experiences and help as best as they can. Having read your first post a few times and I agree with Jim, I think you are very lucky to get a reponse as you did. Tech support is not an easy job to do at the best of times. They are given guidelines and guide notes to the products that their business sells,its a bit unfair that you expected an answer that solved your problem straight away. Being rude, not a good thing to do with any customer support because they can and most of the time put your enquiry to the bottom of the pile.

 

[lasher]

Well my input after some consideration is

1. Have you told XFX you were conducting a tech service survey on them?

2. I hope too many people with genuine problems were not hampered in getting a decent level of service whilst you were conducting your fictional survey.

3. A survey of customer service with organisations Is usually carried out by hired in companies by the company. These are professional companies, who constructively complie a report detailling their shortcomings if there are any, rather than an unconstructive ( that's how your post reads to me ) rant on a tech forum.

I've worked in retail service industry for many years, seen it all, hired the companies myself to mystery shop the companies I have worked for too.

Customer service has to be one of the hardest aspects of sales especially aftercare.

Get good service and you may tell one or two people, get bad service and well how many views has this thread had so far???

Regards

Lasher

 

[86sixsix]

Why suddenly quit on us?

I don't like being accused of Trolling when I'm not. If I was - I'd do it *way* better. I'd at least pick something stupid like the 'red' vs. 'green' debate...

@lasher and @msm2 - Yes, I have since thanked XFX for their help and explained the situation and I thank you for the constructive criticism.

2 points are to be gleaned from this thread... XFX do eventually fix problems in the face of adversity, and people's expectation of tech support is so low that any success rates highly.

slightlyOFFTOPIC: Maybe a 3rd... Newbie's on a forum shouldn't post stuff that appears to put down a popular manufacturer... The day I'd posted the original text - I'd read nothing on here except twaddle 'my machine is stable but it sometimes crashes' threads and thought that something like this might get a sensible discussion going about the pros and cons of tech.s and the issues they and users face. How wrong could I have been? lol

 

[Youngie1337]

It's fine man, I got the wrong end of the stick so to speak. I thought you were saying that their service was rubbish but you was rude to them in some ways. Of course it's hard to keep cool, and it was a simple fix, but most of the people you reach @ help lines are only reading from a piece of paper which was written by someone else (not meaning actual paper, just example).

They did their job, you got your answer. Perhaps seperate the original post into pros and cons instead of ranting and 1 big convo. Rename the thread also since it is biased('so called', like there is better, all opinion and right time right place etc...).

 

[PP Mguire]

I still stand by im suprised you got the kinda of service you got considering.

Ive dealt many times closely with XFX tech support and a few of their PR guys that ran tech support over at the forums i recently reviewed at. They specifically state that most of their attention goes to American customers because they can utilize the double lifetime warranty. I dont see whats better than sending a 7950GT in and getting an 8800GS back because they where outa stock. Not only that but i had 2 volt mods on it and a custom bios that clearly said PP Mguire.

Besides that this was clearly not the usual "tech support" questions. You have to wonder what they are thinking too. Situation - guy sends in ticket, and then starts yelling about how he could fix it IF.

Tech support - well if guy is smart enough to know situation and HOW to fix it, why not figure out the whole problem

As i agree with what Jimbo said i have to say i am still seriously suprised that they continued with the level of support they gave you considering the circumstances.

 

[86sixsix]

Perhaps seperate the original post into pros and cons instead of ranting and 1 big convo. Rename the thread also since it is biased('so called', like there is better, all opinion and right time right place etc...).

^Unsure of how to edit my previous posts... is that allowed after people have replied?

I stand by the 'so called' bit. Perhaps the title should be:

"So called tech departments - are they any good in the face of adversity?"

At least now we're getting a bit more towards what I was aiming for... The pros and cons of everything.

...and to make it up to XFX I've purchased a cheapo card to use as a backup in case mine go belly up. (And as it turns out...that one outputs 1024x768@60hz while posting over DVI>HDMI...go figure. 7 even gives you the shiny new boot-screen no doubt due to the bigger vertical)

PROS:

The one bloke, James, at least had the gumption to say 'i don't know...but wait till i get you what you need'

The issue was eventually resolved - even when faced with a snotty customer.

CONS:

A fortnight for a timing issue isn't great - if it was a genuine problem - I could/would post here or somewhere else and a good few people would be looking in their 'custom res' boxes straight away if only out of morbid curiosity.

4 people 'helping' is overkill - especially after 1 man promised faithfully he would get the numbers needed.

Some advice was very poor indeed - install powerstrip and that would somehow change the res at post. How would folk react if they just dropped £400 or so on a new card and that was the advice given?

What are other peoples thoughts on this or other support departments? Have they had similar experiences? Have they had brilliant experiences? Have they had rubbish experiences?

EDIT: How do I change a thread title? (I've put a subject line in the 1st post). I didn't want to go and change the original post as it would make the rest of thread look a bit odd.