Workstation and Gaming questions

[Scubasage]

Alright, so I'm a pretty big gamer, but I'm also studying in a 3D animation course, mostly using Maya and Zbrush, but some other programs might be used as well. My current rig has 2 GTX 460s (1GB) in SLI. Will these two be strong enough to handle using Maya and Zbrush, or will I have to get a workstation card? If I do need to get a workstation card, would I be able to use it in the same rig as my other two? I have the slots for running them all, and the power supply to do it, so there's no issue in terms of hardware. I also plan on getting a second monitor, which I've heard helps for this sort of thing (1 monitor for gaming connected to the GTX, the other for work connected to the Quadro/Firepro).

Pretty much the biggest difference between workstation and gaming cards are the drivers. Gaming cards are much more powerful, but have much less support and their drivers aren't optimized for workstation programs. I've heard there are modded drivers that can help alleviate this issue, but I would like some imput from some people who have had to do the same, or something similar.

I know the ideal solution would be to get a workstation rig and use that, while keeping my current one for gaming, but that isn't an option right now. Maybe in a year or so I'll be able to do that, but not right now.

If it helps, I was looking at the quadro 600/FX 580 or the Firepro V4800. Yeah, not very good, but my budget is pretty tight atm and I would need the card ASAP. Any advice?

 

[Bocephus]

Dont know anything at all about work stations but you might want to check into your PCIe slots. If the ones that you put your GPU's in aren't all full 16x they will step down, ie...16x8, 16x8x8,16x8x4, 8x8x8, 8x4 and so on.

AS I said I dont Know squat about workstations but you might want to check into a server or workstation Mobo. Or at-least one that can serve double duty like EVGA SR 2 Classified and will still play games very nicely My link and a very nice dedicated knowledgeable forum and support forum, it has dual Xeon CPU's 7 x full 16x PCIe slots (I think) and very wide RAM bandwith that will be much needed for 3D CAD rendering and such. The X58 Classified could also be a good choice and a little cheaper

Seriously considering building an SR 2 rig myself

 

[Scubasage]

Got a Rampage III Extreme. Meaning my slots (if I run both GTX 460s and a workstation card) will be at 16x/8x/8x.

That being said, that doesn't really matter much, as so far there haven't been any really noticeable performance differences when going from 16x to 8x.

Not gonna be using CAD from what I can tell, and I already have 12GBs of RAM, which is more than the 8GB recommended for what I'm doing. My mobo can support up to 24GB, so I'm not worried in terms of hardware. My PSU is also up to the job (the workstation cards I'm looking at don't even require a single 6-pin connector), meaning I'm just looking for whether or not I should get one of those entry level workstation cards or just stick with my SLI 460s, and if I do get the cards, can I run all 3 without there being software issues, or if there are software issues, would they be fixable by using a second monitor for the workstation card.

 

[murphy7801]

Got a Rampage III Extreme. Meaning my slots (if I run both GTX 460s and a workstation card) will be at 16x/8x/8x.

That being said, that doesn't really matter much, as so far there haven't been any really noticeable performance differences when going from 16x to 8x.

Not gonna be using CAD from what I can tell, and I already have 12GBs of RAM, which is more than the 8GB recommended for what I'm doing. My mobo can support up to 24GB, so I'm not worried in terms of hardware. My PSU is also up to the job (the workstation cards I'm looking at don't even require a single 6-pin connector), meaning I'm just looking for whether or not I should get one of those entry level workstation cards or just stick with my SLI 460s, and if I do get the cards, can I run all 3 without there being software issues, or if there are software issues, would they be fixable by using a second monitor for the workstation card.

Agree with everything above just get a couple 570's if theres budget. Also thought the sabertooth could do dual 16x

 

[Bocephus]

I would stick with your SLI then. If you purchase a workstation graphics card and stick it in dual or triple SLI with other GPU's your taking a big performance hit that doesn't substantiate spending all that money on a workstation GPU IMHO. Yes they will work as long as they're listed as double or triple SLI or crossfire whatever configuration you run them in. Just stick with one brand as I'm sure you're aware of by now.

However, you can buy one workstation GPU and stick it in the 16x and put your others in 8x and run 16x8x8 but it's a waste of money for very little performance gain with out having 16x16x16x PCIe's especially if your concerned with performance per watt. The only performance gain you will see is with your wrkstn GPU and processes

IMHO, if you want/need a workstation GPU I'd just upgrade to a 3x16x PCIe Mobo and get all that GPU goodness out of all your GPU's. You'd be amazed at the performance increase, just make sure whatever you do to stick your wrkstn GPU in first 16x PCIe

Oh not that I'm pushing an SR 2 but it's capable of 48 Gigs of RAM not that you would need it, just split up what you have now and install in separate banks. Also the SR 2 will run on only 1 CPU

 

[Scubasage]

I would stick with your SLI then. If you purchase a workstation graphics card and stick it in dual or triple SLI with other GPU's your taking a big performance hit that doesn't substantiate spending all that money on a workstation GPU IMHO. Yes they will work as long as they're listed as double or triple SLI or crossfire whatever configuration you run them in. Just stick with one brand as I'm sure you're aware of by now.

However, you can buy one workstation GPU and stick it in the 16x and put your others in 8x and run 16x8x8 but it's a waste of money for very little performance gain with out having 16x16x16x PCIe's.

IMHO, if you want/need a workstation GPU I'd just upgrade to a 3x16x PCIe Mobo and get all that GPU goodness out of all your GPU's. You'd be amazed at the performance increase, just make sure whatever you do to stick your wrkstn GPU in first 16x PCIe

I'll say it again in case you missed it in my reply above.

That being said, that doesn't really matter much, as so far there haven't been any really noticeable performance differences when going from 16x to 8x.

I'll clarify that. In terms of gaming, you lose maybe 2-3 FPS, if anything at all and that can also easily be attributed to normal variance. It only really affects benchmarks, and even then, the loss is something around 5%. Needless to say, IDC if it's running at 16x or 8x.

This thread offers some decent examples and links to other reviews on the subject of 16x or 8x

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/306641-33-gtx580-slot

As for spending all that money, those workstation GPUs I listed are in the $150-200 CAD range, hardly a ton of money.

I'll also repeat what I want answered:

whether or not I should get one of those entry level workstation cards or just stick with my SLI 460s (as in, will my SLI 460s be strong enough to handle Maya and Zbrush, despite crippling drivers for those programs), and if I do get the workstation card, can I run all 3 without there being software issues (similar to how having 2 cards in SLI and a different card as a PhysX card doesn't have any problems, but if the third card isn't specified as PhysX, it causes problems), or if there are software issues, would they be fixable by using a second monitor for the workstation card.

 

[murphy7801]

Also I like that no one has suggested using ati card doesnt support cuda and both those programs love the cuda

 

[Tortuga]

I can't touch base on the 3d animation stuff but what I can say...the loss of framerate between 16x and 8x gaming isn't even detectable by the human eye. It takes synthetic benchmarks and graphs to even tell a difference in real life applications. If you can save a few bucks on 16x or 8x/8x and put it towards a better graphics card, that would yield better results then blowing your wad on triple 16x slot mobo and slower gpus (gaming wise). But if somehow your 3d animation is extremely bandwidth dependent maybe you'll want that 16x slots, but for gaming, I wouldn't worry about it. (obviously if I had the money id always run in 16x/16x just to feel good)

 

[Scubasage]

Also I like that no one has suggested using ati card doesnt support cuda and both those programs love the cuda

The Firepro V4800 is an ATI card

I can't touch base on the 3d animation stuff but what I can say...the loss of framerate between 16x and 8x gaming isn't even detectable by the human eye. It takes synthetic benchmarks and graphs to even tell a difference in real life applications. If you can save a few bucks on 16x or 8x/8x and put it towards a better graphics card, that would yield better results then blowing your wad on triple 16x slot mobo and slower gpus (gaming wise). But if somehow your 3d animation is extremely bandwidth dependent maybe you'll want that 16x slots, but for gaming, I wouldn't worry about it.

I know this already, but thanks for confirming what I said

As for costs, my system is built. I'm not looking to buy anything except maybe a workstation card (if my GTX 460s in SLI can't handle Maya and Zbrush), and a second monitor (both because it's supposed to be a sort of workaround solution to having both gaming and workstation cards in the same rig, as well as that I just plain want a second monitor anyways).

 

[murphy7801]

The Firepro V4800 is an ATI card

I know this already, but thanks for confirming what I said

As for costs, my system is built. I'm not looking to buy anything except maybe a workstation card (if my GTX 460s in SLI can't handle Maya and Zbrush), and a second monitor (both because it's supposed to be a sort of workaround solution to having both gaming and workstation cards in the same rig, as well as that I just plain want a second monitor anyways).

its not realistic suggestion tbh ati don't really have any foot hold in that market

 

[Bocephus]

Also I like that no one has suggested using ati card doesnt support cuda and both those programs love the cuda

Scubasage said he had 2 460's in SLI...that's the only reason I didn't suggest a brand. I assumed he was going to stick with the mean green if he was going to add a GPU to what he already has. Physx is good and there are still too many problems with lucid.

I thought It was 1155 that doesnt support cuda...now I'm gonna have to do more multitasking grrr Lol

 

[Scubasage]

its not realistic suggestion tbh ati don't really have any foot hold in that market

Actually...ATI was destroying Nvidia in the workstation market pre-2010, from what little information I've been able to gather. Sure, Nvidia had the highest end stuff covered, but ATI had complete control of the low, mid and lower high range stuff. Similar how AMD beats intel in the low range CPU sector. Now Nvidia is competing more, but if anything I'd say they were even atm.

I don't particularly care if I have a Nvidia or ATI workstation card. Whichever is the better one and is less of a hassle to use. the Quadro ones would probably cause less problems since I'm already using 2 GTX 460s, but if the Firepro is better and doesn't cause problems, then I'm getting the Firepro.

 

[Bocephus]

I'll say it again in case you missed it in my reply above.

I'll clarify that. In terms of gaming, you lose maybe 2-3 FPS, if anything at all and that can also easily be attributed to normal variance. It only really affects benchmarks, and even then, the loss is something around 5%. Needless to say, IDC if it's running at 16x or 8x.

This thread offers some decent examples and links to other reviews on the subject of 16x or 8x

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/306641-33-gtx580-slot

As for spending all that money, those workstation GPUs I listed are in the $150-200 CAD range, hardly a ton of money.

I'll also repeat what I want answered:

whether or not I should get one of those entry level workstation cards or just stick with my SLI 460s (as in, will my SLI 460s be strong enough to handle Maya and Zbrush, despite crippling drivers for those programs), and if I do get the workstation card, can I run all 3 without there being software issues (similar to how having 2 cards in SLI and a different card as a PhysX card doesn't have any problems, but if the third card isn't specified as PhysX, it causes problems), or if there are software issues, would they be fixable by using a second monitor for the workstation card.

Asked and already answered in earlier reply

QUOTE

I would stick with your SLI then. If you purchase a workstation graphics card and stick it in dual or triple SLI with other GPU's your taking a big performance hit that doesn't substantiate spending all that money on a workstation GPU IMHO. Yes they will work as long as they're listed as double or triple SLI or crossfire whatever configuration you run them in. Just stick with one brand as I'm sure you're aware of by now.

END QUOTE

To clarify

In your original post I didnt see any thing about entry level or budget workstation GPU. Sorry, when someone mentions workstation GPU I assume their going to do some real work with it ($600.00 and up) and not just dabble,my mind doesn't start at the bottom of the heap as those are really no better than your 460.

If your looking at one of those it's really not worth it. What you have now is better than one of those cheapo cards IMHO

 

[Scubasage]

Asked and already answered in earlier reply

QUOTE

I would stick with your SLI then. If you purchase a workstation graphics card and stick it in dual or triple SLI with other GPU's your taking a big performance hit that doesn't substantiate spending all that money on a workstation GPU IMHO. Yes they will work as long as they're listed as double or triple SLI or crossfire whatever configuration you run them in. Just stick with one brand as I'm sure you're aware of by now.

END QUOTE

To clarify

In your original post I didnt see any thing about entry level or budget workstation GPU.

If your looking at one of those it's really not worth it. What you have now is better than one of those cheapo cards IMHO

Well then, you should probably read the entire post. it says right at the end:

If it helps, I was looking at the quadro 600/FX 580 or the Firepro V4800. Yeah, not very good, but my budget is pretty tight atm and I would need the card ASAP. Any advice?

I mention that they are budget cards, and a quick little 2 sec search would have confirmed that, without me having to tell you.

Also

Yes they will work as long as they're listed as double or triple SLI or crossfire whatever configuration you run them in. Just stick with one brand as I'm sure you're aware of by now.

As workstation cards, they CANNOT be run in SLI or Crossfire with my GTX 460s, even IF my GTX 460s could do 3-way SLI (which they can't), so I don't see the reason why you would point that incorrect piece of information TWICE. There was a reason I ignored that little tidbit. Nothing you have said has answered my questions.

As for it not being worth it, given your previous responses, I cannot make my decision based on your suggestion, hence I am still asking for answers, hoping someone with more experience will be able to give a little guidance. I already know that gaming cards are technically much more powerful than workstation cards, but the drivers for both are optimized very differently. Workstation cards, despite being weaker, usually destroy similar "tier" gaming cards for doing workstation tasks. I don't mean destroy like, 20% better. I mean destroy as in close to 3-4x better. However, the prices on those high tier workstation cards are also much higher. The drivers make a HUGE difference, which is why I also mention it in my original post.

Pretty much the biggest difference between workstation and gaming cards are the drivers. Gaming cards are much more powerful, but have much less support and their drivers aren't optimized for workstation programs. I've heard there are modded drivers that can help alleviate this issue, but I would like some imput from some people who have had to do the same, or something similar.

Note the part about the modded drivers? That would be my option if I didn't buy a workstation card and it turned out that the GTX 460s can barely handle Maya and Zbrush (talking like <20 FPS on smaller polygonal counts)

 

[Bocephus]

Lol...OK, you just reached the point where you have gone way over my head with what little knowledge of workstation GPU's I have (which I stated in reply)

Tried to help what little I could, sorry it was insufficient. I'll stop taking up thread space for some one a lot more knowledgeable to help you. Good luck with your search

 

[Scubasage]

Thanks for trying man, here's hoping there is someone on the forums with some answers

 

[Bocephus]

Thanks for trying man, here's hoping there is someone on the forums with some answers

No problem...Good luck.

I hope you find someone that makes me look like the dumb ass that I am when it comes to this topic Lol

 

[murphy7801]

Actually...ATI was destroying Nvidia in the workstation market pre-2010, from what little information I've been able to gather. Sure, Nvidia had the highest end stuff covered, but ATI had complete control of the low, mid and lower high range stuff. Similar how AMD beats intel in the low range CPU sector. Now Nvidia is competing more, but if anything I'd say they were even atm.

I don't particularly care if I have a Nvidia or ATI workstation card. Whichever is the better one and is less of a hassle to use. the Quadro ones would probably cause less problems since I'm already using 2 GTX 460s, but if the Firepro is better and doesn't cause problems, then I'm getting the Firepro.

Not high end computations market, work station but things maya nvidia are market dominator's since most people who use this shell out for things like Tesla's.

 

[Scubasage]

Except that Tesla is way to expensive for anyone who isn't in a high paying job using those programs. For students and lower end jobs, they have to turn to Quadros or Firepros.

 

[murphy7801]

Yup but there's large profit margin in it also companies by more than students do.