WYP
News Guru
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TSMC's 5nm yields reportedly cross 7nm, AMD hinted as a customer for Zen 4's launch
- Thread starter WYP
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g0ggles1994
Active member
I'd expect AMD to use 5nm for Zen 4 as it would tally with when they could move on from AM4 onto AM5, DDR5, and whatnot. Logically speaking
WYP
News Guru
Soo many fives... I wonder if they will launch on 5/5/21.
I also expect AMD to move to 5nm in 2021, as AMD needs to remain on the best process possible to continue to make gains over Intel. If 5nm is ready, AMD will use 5nm.
I just don't like the sites that are talking about the speculations of a Chinese site like it is confirmation. So many rumours are spoken about in this way and I'm kinda sick of it. I always do my best to cite rumours as such.
Dawelio
Active member
But would there be a somewhat "big" difference going 5nm from 3rd gen Ryzen's 7nm?...
g0ggles1994
Active member
Add PCIe 5.0 onto those fives
Yea, it especially bugs me when people use machine translation like Google then pass it off as fact even though everyone knows those translation systems aren't 100% accurate.
I don't think it'll be a big difference but they need to keep on the cutting edge to challenge Intel. I think they'll jump just to make it a completely new platform for AM5.
WYP
News Guru
Well, this will be Zen 4 at that stage and the increased silicon density of 5nm will allow AMD to make some BIG changes. More cores, or better yet, bigger cores with more features to boost IPC.
Add PCIe 5.0 onto those fives
Yea, it especially bugs me when people use machine translation like Google then pass it off as fact even though everyone knows those translation systems aren't 100% accurate.
I don't think it'll be a big difference but they need to keep on the cutting edge to challenge Intel. I think they'll jump just to make it a completely new platform for AM5.
Yes, but complacency is what has killed Intel's dominant market position. AMD shouldn't make the same mistake.
Beyond that, the increased silicon density of 5nm should allow AMD to bring forward some huge design changes. Yeah, it won't be the same as 14/12nm to 7nm, but it will make a notable difference.
Yeah, anything that comes from a machine translation should be taken with a grain of salt. I remember speaking to a Japanese guy on Twitter once to try and settle a translation issue. @KOMACHI_ENSAKA, good guy.
That said, some sites almost always misrepresent rumours for the sake of a headline.
Cheers man.
From TSMC about the ARM Cortex A72: "TSMC stated that they could increase logic density by 1.8x and boost is operation speeds by 15% or reduce its power consumption by 30%." We can infer a few things from this to apply to Zen2/3 on 5nm. Given the limitations of Zen 2 with it's achievable clock speeds, we may see a 5% increase in maximum single core clock speeds or a more consistent but lower base/multicore boost and we will probably see either lower power consumption or more features packed into the chip.
In other words, we will see yet more improvements in the Zen architecture which will help AMD stay competitive with Intel even if Intel pulls something from their rear on their 10/7 nm processes.
Avet
Banned
I just wish that AMD takes their time with 5nm and Zen 4. Their CPUs are good but they seem half-baked. I understand that they had a gap when Intel was sleeping and they needed to move product fast. Their technology has so much potential. It needs refinement.
I have a feeling that Lisa Su comes in the lab and says "Is it ready? We need to send the designs to TSMC today so they can start making them."
The engineer "Sample v0.732 failed. Final version won't be for another 6 months."
Lisa "If sample v0.6 was good send them that one."
Edit: And then the Micro Code team gets hart attack because all code optimizations for v0.6 weren't supposed to be in final version.
I have a feeling that Lisa Su comes in the lab and says "Is it ready? We need to send the designs to TSMC today so they can start making them."
The engineer "Sample v0.732 failed. Final version won't be for another 6 months."
Lisa "If sample v0.6 was good send them that one."
Edit: And then the Micro Code team gets hart attack because all code optimizations for v0.6 weren't supposed to be in final version.
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WYP
News Guru
With Intel having to release a microcode update for Cascade Lake to improve overclocking, I'm not certain that Intel can be called reliable in this regard anymore.
What AMD needs right now is to execute. Release products with a yearly cadence and deliver worthwhile generational advantages. As AMD earns more they will be able to dedicate more people to specific tasks, TBH Zen 2/s launch has been very smooth given the number of feature changes that AMD has delivered.
As much as the Zen 2 clock debacle was reported, the percentage performance boosts offered by new BIOS files and AGESA are small. Notable, but small. Even as it was, Zen 2 was a good product. Now it's better,
I think it would have hurt AMD to delay Zen 2. They need to meet their release targets and prove themselves to be more reliable than Intel to OEMs and server makers. On desktop they can afford to release a few more AGESA versions.
Zen 3 and Zen 4 need to release on time. That way AMD has five generations of solid execution while Intel has spent most of that time re-releasing Skylake. Right now it looks like Intel has another Skylake re-release in the works, and that's not a good sign for anyone.
Yeah most of Ryzens issues have been down to software or firmware handling, the hardware itself has been pretty solid, after all these very same CPU dies are going to be used in some of the worlds largest supercomputers and datacenters with Epyc2 and such. Yearly updates with leapfrogging design teams has seemed to allow them to juggle features back and forth a little depending on whether they're ready, I don't think it's too bad if they have to put the odd thing on the back burner to hit this steady yearly cycle, even Intel couldn't tick-tock for too long, while AMD are getting their ticks and tocks all at once.
Intel not dropping ambitious or problematic features that could delay product releases significantly seems to be a key factor in what got them into their current mess.
Intel not dropping ambitious or problematic features that could delay product releases significantly seems to be a key factor in what got them into their current mess.
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AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Zen 1 had major issues, but it was released at the right time in my opinion. Zen 2 is a complete product and functions very well. The issues are small and not deal breakers for the majority. Navi has had more issues than Zen 2 as far as I can tell. I personally feel AMD are doing the best given the limited funds they have. Zen was an incredibly complex and new design so was always going to have teething problems. Nvidia are so far ahead of AMD that their GPUs are going to be released in an awkward state. It's going to take consistent product releases to fix this over time, as Mark said.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
I think Navi was great tbh. It is a major step in the right direction. Finally a powerful GPU that's efficient. Sure not the most powerful but fantastic value for money.
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