RAM as it relates to CPU/MOBO?

[eTanium]

So, I've been spending all morning and afternoon reading up on RAM, but I still have some questions. I plan on over clocking my CPU, and possibly my GPU and RAM. I’m looking to have 16gigs of ram for video editing and such, but I am not sure what frequency to buy, or the amount of sticks needed, and such.

Any insight would be helpful. Thanks!

MOBO: ASUS P8Z77-V

Number of Memory Slots: 4×240pin

Memory Standard: DDR3 2600(O.C.)/2400(O.C.)/2200(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1866(O.C.)/1800(O.C.)/1600/1333

Maximum Memory Supported: 32GB

Channel Supported: Dual Channel

CPU: i7-3770K

Integrated Memory Controller Speed: Dual-channel DDR3 Memory Controller supports DDR3-1333 and DDR3-1600 memory

1) Dual Channel vs Quad Channel.

Since my motherboard and CPU only support dual-channel, would I not be able to run quad channel RAM kit if I was interested in doing so?

I’m still a little shaky on what dual and quad channels even mean. If I were to buy two sticks of RAM, and put them in slots 1 & 3 (my board has four slots), those two sticks would work together as one large amount of RAM, but in what channel? Is that considered dual channel?

If I put a second set in slots 2 & 4, would they play nicely with my other RAM? Would this then be considered quad channel?

What is better, two large capacity sticks in slots 1 & 3, or four sticks of lesser ram (but still equaling my target capacity)?

2) Frequency limits

So, even if my motherboard supports a host of higher clocked RAM, will I be limited by my CPU’s Integrated Memory Controller? Will it not utilize RAM running at frequencies higher than 1600, or downgrade their frequency down to 1600?

If not, and the CPU can recognize RAM at faster frequencies (without downgrading the frequency to match its Integrated Memory Controller’s speed), can stock RAM labeled at 1600 be pushed to higher frequencies, or do they need to be stated as “OC” RAM?

This ram is the last peice in the puzzel for building my new system! All input is welcomed and appreciated. I am very eager to get this built and tested. I think she's going to be a good one! I will make sure to post pics/specs/performace when all is said and done.

-Ethan

 

[killablade]

The Ivy Bridge CPU's with the Z77 mobo's support massive ram speeds, so don't worry about that. Ivy Bridge only supports dual channel though, if you want quad channel you'll need socket 2011 kit. That doesn't mean that you can't use 4 sticks of ram on Z77, it will just run in dual channel. Imho the configuration doesn't really matter. Personally I have 4x4GB using a Z77 mobo and the same CPU as you do.

Yes, you can overclock 1600mhz ram, but there's no guarrantee as to what speeds are going to be stable.

 

[eTanium]

The Ivy Bridge CPU's with the Z77 mobo's support massive ram speeds, so don't worry about that. Ivy Bridge only supports dual channel though, if you want quad channel you'll need socket 2011 kit. That doesn't mean that you can't use 4 sticks of ram on Z77, it will just run in dual channel. Imho the configuration doesn't really matter. Personally I have 4x4GB using a Z77 mobo and the same CPU as you do.

Yes, you can overclock 1600mhz ram, but there's no guarrantee as to what speeds are going to be stable.

I see that you have the i7 3770k with 2133mhz ram. So, is that 2133 frequency completely recognized and utilized? The specs for the i7 3770k state that its Integrated Memory Controller Speed can only process up to DDR3-1600 RAM.

I am just using my own reasoning for this, and could be completely wrong, so please correct me if so, but I would think that any frequency higher than the 1600 would be downgraded by the CPU to 1600. If this is happening, would system monitoring programs display the ram speed at the speed the motherboard is able read the RAM as, or what the CPU is really utilizing?

I don't want to spend money on ram that isn't going to be fully utilized by my CPU.

Thanks.

 

[Lauralarry]

go ahead and get 2133mhz I suggest Ridgebacks but if you're trying to save money go ahead and get 1866 there isn't a huge difference

 

[eTanium]

go ahead and get 2133mhz I suggest Ridgebacks but if you're trying to save money go ahead and get 1866 there isn't a huge difference

I believe you are confused about the question at hand.

since the CPU control only handels DDR3 1600, will the rest of the frequency on anything higher be a waste?

DDR3 2133mhz - (minus) CPU Integrated Memory Controller Speed max of 1600mhz = 533hmz wasted, unless I'm wrong?

 

[killablade]

It says DDR3-1600mhz support because that's the highest official DDR3 standard. Non-official (OC) is supported too though. It will utilize the 2133 mhz ram. Just use the Intel XMP that's often provided with ram and you're good to go. If you want to see the difference between ram speeds just check out one of the reviews fella. You'll see that the higher clocked ram or ram with sharper timings will perform better.

 

[eTanium]

It says DDR3-1600mhz support because that's the highest official DDR3 standard. Non-official (OC) is supported too though. It will utilize the 2133 mhz ram.

Ahhh, see, that's what I needed to know! Thank you, and everyone else for taking the time to lead the blind!

 

[eTanium]

Ok, now that I am more informed, I have my eyes on three different sets of 16Gig sticks (2x8).

$179[sup].99 [/sup]G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133

$149[sup].99[/sup] G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866

$129[sup].99[/sup] G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600

The first two represent RAM that is above the standard, and that I could easily over clock.

The last one is a lot less expensive, and, honestly, looks the part! I plan on doing a nice blue theme here. But, can I push the 1600mhz to something a little higher, say 1866mhz, or would they not be stabe at that point (which is why they would be priced less than the first two, or so I think)? Would I still need an XMP profile to over clock them?

Their timing is the best out of the three as well!

What do you guys think?

 

[marsey99]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231595

been doing some comparative tests on another forum and while only narrow it does seem like ivy is making more of the dual chan with faster sticks, so buy the fastest you can afford.

 

[eTanium]

I found this set (which is the color scheem I want, because I am vein like that, haha), is well over clocked!

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-17000CL9Q-16GBXM

Should I be worried about the extra heat from:

A) Having four sticks instead of two?

B.) The higher voltage and frequency?

 

[Master&Puppet]

Some of these links might help explain things

1) Dual Channel vs Quad Channel.

Since my motherboard and CPU only support dual-channel, would I not be able to run quad channel RAM kit if I was interested in doing so?

I’m still a little shaky on what dual and quad channels even mean. If I were to buy two sticks of RAM, and put them in slots 1 & 3 (my board has four slots), those two sticks would work together as one large amount of RAM, but in what channel? Is that considered dual channel?

If I put a second set in slots 2 & 4, would they play nicely with my other RAM? Would this then be considered quad channel?

What is better, two large capacity sticks in slots 1 & 3, or four sticks of lesser ram (but still equaling my target capacity)?

Single, dual, triple and quad RAM module kit labelling is a little misleading. Say, with you board that you want to populate all four RAM slots - you can populate them with 2x dual channel kits or a single quad channel kit. Assuming that you found kits which were otherwise identical except for the dual/quad label the only difference is that quad channel RAM has been tested as 4 modules together and dual channel has been tested as a pair. You can put quad channel in dual channel or dual channel in quad (although it tends to be more sensible to use quad). In fact you could put single channel in quad channel if you wanted and it would probably be fine if you got a reliable brand - it is just that the manufacturer hasn't tested them to run as a 4-some.

It is actually really hard to find 32gb packs of dual channel memory - because that would be 4 sticks tested in 2 pairs. That would be a weird thing to do when you just just test it all together and call it quad channel. Take a look at this corsair vengeance pack. It is listed as being both dual and quad channel. I'm guessing that corsair have spotted that people have been getting confused by this and have adjusted their marketing to suit. There is no difference in module design - it is just how they are tested.

The actual difference between dual and quad channel is on the motherboard only and is to do with the way in which the cpu talks to the RAM, not in the way the RAM is designed. Motherboard only! Take a look at the architecture article in that thread I linked for more info on that.

2) Frequency limits

So, even if my motherboard supports a host of higher clocked RAM, will I be limited by my CPU’s Integrated Memory Controller? Will it not utilize RAM running at frequencies higher than 1600, or downgrade their frequency down to 1600?

If not, and the CPU can recognize RAM at faster frequencies (without downgrading the frequency to match its Integrated Memory Controller’s speed), can stock RAM labeled at 1600 be pushed to higher frequencies, or do they need to be stated as “OC” RAM?

Your cpu is only rated to run RAM at 1600 in the same way as intel sends it to you clocked at 3.5ghz. You can overclock the CPU and you can overclock the ram too. If you run them faster they work faster. Most modern motherboards will let you push the RAM into the 2000+ now. If you buy 2133mhz kits then you kind of cheat the overclocking because it is the equivalent to having a motherboard which only supports a 3.0ghz cpu and plugging in a 3.5ghz cpu - you overclock the mobo to run the RAM/CPU at stock. It is a lot easier to put 2133 RAM into a 1600 board and just tell the mobo to run faster because you know the RAM is capable of running that fast. If you put 1600mhz RAM in then you will have to alter the timings and volts on the RAM in order to make it run faster which is a lot of extra hassle.

In any case RAM is the last thing to worry about performance wise - you are fighting for seconds on a render and a fraction of an fps gaming wise so there is not very much point in splashing out £50 for an extra 300mhz when you probably won't feel the benefit unless your business really depends on speed.

 

[marsey99]

no and no

only thing i would be worried about is the size of the heatsinks on them and clearance for heatsinks.

maybe these would be better, same timings/speed/cost but lower profile blue heatsinks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231555

 

[eTanium]

Master&Puppet, I did read all the articles in that you posted in that other thread before I even made this one. It was very informative; thanks supplying that info.

I just needed a bit of clarification, which you all have been able to provide me. With that being said, I am going to stick with the G.Skill's that I posted earlier:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231563

The ones you posted Hooah are nice, but have the same price and specs as the other ones, but I like the bigger heat sinks! I know, a bit tacky, but they will go great with my blue water cooling (if I can ever get the money together for this rig).

Right now I am at $1999.90 without a monitor and water cooling kits... I hope I get $ for my birthday instead of socks. haha.

 

[eTanium]

Ok, instead of making a new post, I wanted to keep this one alive.

It's been a few weeks and I've since bought components and built the basic system (more to add soon - build log to come). I am looking over my CPU-Z outputs, and I am not sure my ram is working to spec. I ran memtest on it, and it seemed to work fine, and read correctly, but the same doesn't seem to hold true when I am in Windows and looking at CPU-Z. Maybe I am a little confused as to what CPU-Z is outputting?

In the BIOS I had to set XMP for the Motherboard to read the ram at 2133, but I am not sure that CPU-Z is corresponding with that. Can anyone with a better knowledge of ram timings let me know what is up here?

Thanks.

RAM SPECS:

CPU-Z INFO (sorry if it is hard to read - I can enlarge it if need be):

 

[Master&Puppet]

Is it the speed which is confusing you? I.e.1066.7mhz? DDR stands for double data rate so 1066.7 x 2 = 2133mhz.

 

[Scoob]

CPU-z screenshots look as I'd expect them to. One thing to be aware of though is while CPU-z is saying "Channels # Dual" in the 2nd screen it's actually only reporting the supported speed. I.e. if you had only two slots populated, but the wrong two, you'd be in SINGLE Channel mode but CPU-z would still say "dual".

Found this out recently on a friends PC - we both had 24gb (exact same ram) but he'd installed it wrong yet insisted he hadn't - he was quoting CPU-z and several other tools saying he was in "Dual Channel" mode yet I knew he was not. In the end I proved it via a simple Ram bandwidth test - his was HALF mine. Point proven. He correctly re-installed his Ram and doubled his score.

Also, as previously mentioned, the whole dual/quad channel thing can be a little deceptive. Ages ago, when dual channel was new, NOT getting a matched pair could lead to problems. Now however it seems less of an issue. Personally I've mixed ram in several ways - so individual sticks run in dual, quad channel kits split to run in dual in different machines. My current setup uses 2x4gb DDR3 9-9-9-24 and 2x8gb 10-10-10-27 both set to the slower speed and is working great. I am using Vengeance throughout, though different sizes and speeds of course. Note: XMP got the timings WRONG on my Asus P8Z68-V Pro - setting all memory to the more agressive timing leading to instabilities. Manually setting the correct timing was easy though & has been fine since.

Anyway, I got a little OT there but hopefully it'll be of use to others interested in this topic.

I think your current setup is working as it should be.

Scoob.

 

[eTanium]

Thank you both. It was the 1066.7 x 2 = 2133mhz that was confusing me. So, things seem to be working fine!

I have for slots, all populated with the same ram chips.